NCL Cruise Service Charge Refund

[pieshops]

I wish the DSC was included in the fare price. My total cost could decrease since I wouldn't be subsidizing cheapskates that remove their DSC. And if they think the total fare is too high...well, I guess there will be less cheapskates on my cruise.

the problem with this is that if it is in the cruise fare then it becomes income for the cruise line and they then have to pay taxes on it, this way it is a seperate item and does not go towards income

[Seminole1975]

That’s why we remove the DSC and tip cash in hand. Better going to the people who made our cruise special rather than to some other employees not even working on the same ship.

 

And do the tips you hand out equal the DSC you would have paid?

 

And do you go in the kitchen and tip the cooks and the dishwashers? They made your cruise special too.

[pieshops]

And ignorance disgusts me. If the service you receive isn't up to par why tip.

because it is hard to believe that every single person you encounter on the ship gives you bad service and that would include getting dirty towels and sheets from the behind the scenes people. If one or two give you bad service write it down on your comment card, the cruise lines take this cards very seriously and every one is read and bonuses are based on them. When you remove because one or two are not good you wind up punishing everyone on the ship who partakes in the DSC

[pieshops]

And do the tips you hand out equal the DSC you would have paid?

 

And do you go in the kitchen and tip the cooks and the dishwashers?

Do not bother trying to argue with him and another one on this thread who shall rename nameless it is not worth your time, its like arguing with a rock, you will never win or change their mind

[Sam Ting]

And do the tips you hand out equal the DSC you would have paid?

 

And do you go in the kitchen and tip the cooks and the dishwashers? They made your cruise special too.

 

 

Never go to the kitchen and tip the cooks and dishwashers, so the answer would be no. Not sure if the amount equals the DSC or not, but the waiters and cabin steward seemed pleased if you must know.

[Sam Ting]

the problem with this is that if it is in the cruise fare then it becomes income for the cruise line and they then have to pay taxes on it, this way it is a seperate item and does not go towards income

 

Why shouldn’t they pay taxes? Are taxes only for the little people? The money has to come from somewhere you know.

[Seminole1975]

Never go to the kitchen and tip the cooks and dishwashers, so the answer would be no. Not sure if the amount equals the DSC or not, but the waiters and cabin steward seemed pleased if you must know.

 

I am sure they are. We often tip the waiters and cabin steward for exemplary service and pay the DSC. So either you are stiffing the cooks and dishwashers and laundry staff or the cabin steward and waiters are sharing their tips with them. As noted in several threads, on some cruise lines (and restaurants on land), staff you see have to share their tips with the staff you do not see. The staff behind the scenes are working just as hard if not harder in some cases and contribute to you having a good time. I think and care about all the staff not just the ones that directly serve me, me, me. But that is just me.

[Sam Ting]

I am sure they are. We often tip the waiters and cabin steward for exemplary service and pay the DSC. So either you are stiffing the cooks and dishwashers and laundry staff or the cabin steward and waiters are sharing their tips with them. As noted in several threads, on some cruise lines (and restaurants on land), staff you see have to share their tips with the staff you do not see. The staff behind the scenes are working just as hard if not harder in some cases and contribute to you having a good time. I think about all the staff not just the ones that directly serve me. But that is just me.

 

 

LOL, the cruise line thanks you for your donation....

[Seminole1975]

LOL, the cruise line thanks you for your donation....

 

They are more than welcome.

 

I have a family member who works in entertainment on the Getaway. He often talks (almost in awe) about how hard the crew in the service industry works. My conscience is clear.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Seminole1975

[pieshops]

Why shouldn’t they pay taxes? Are taxes only for the little people? The money has to come from somewhere you know.

so when you pay your taxes you dont look for as many legal ways to reduce the amount you owe or do you just not take any deductions at all and donate the full percentage to the government?

[erdoran]

What troubles me about this whole scenario is there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that the people "who make our cruise special" see ZERO from the DSC. There's a lot of conversation in an article CC wrote about cruise tipping where a number of people say that they have heard from their steward, waiter, etc that they have a contract and they get paid exactly what is in the contract, and not a penny more, no matter what, DSC or no DSC. It's also been said on THIS thread that our DSC gets distributed across the fleet to cover ships whose pax tend to not tip. I have NO OBLIGATION to tip that staff at all, I want to tip the ones that made MY cruise special! (although it may be true that it doesn't matter anyway if NCL really just uses DSC to make payroll and staff gets zero above their contract salary anyway).

 

If that's true, then aren't all of us who pay our DSC stiffing the staff? The steward who does a great job, that waiter who picks up our plate and carries it to the buffet, etc, etc? If we don't tip individually but ONLY pay the DSC then how are we NOT stiffing the hard-working crew?

 

Also it's been said that the bar staff gets zero of the 20% autograt. That one can't be removed like the DSC. So, even though we've been told by NCL that it does include all tips, aren't we stiffing the bar staff?

 

 

The above makes ME feel like taking every penny I would have paid in DSC and using it for direct staff tips - just to the DSC staff (other tips separate matter). Do NOT call me cheap and say that's an excuse not to tip, IF it is really true that staff do NOT get $ over & above contract salary, then I am most definitely NOT stiffing anyone, and I am substantially benefitting staff I come in contact with, and I would absolutely hand out every penny of the DSC amount at a minimum. And those that are ready to call me a liar and flame me - don't. Just assume for one second someone does tell the truth. The precondition for this removal is that 100% of the DSC is HONESTLY handed to the staff directly.

 

As far as behind the scenes people - if they don't directly benefit from DSC then please explain how it hurts them? For that matter, there might even be a way (not sure how but bet it can be figured out) to leave a sum of $$ with someone and ask them to be sure the behind the scenes people actually get it.

 

Some of you will say "if you feel that way, just pay the DSC AND tip extra to everyone you think deserves it". I'm not cheap but I'm not stupid either. I have no obligation to pay NCL one penny more than my cruise fare towards their operating costs. DSC is positioned as a "tip"; if instead it goes towards NCL's FIXED payroll obligation and doesn't directly benefit the staff, then I am stiffing a lot of people and that's unfair to them. I'd rather give THEM the DSC and if I was going to tip extra, add that extra to their share of the DSC. For all of you "poor underpaid, overworked staff" people, wouldn't you agree this is the best way to PROPERLY reward staff?

 

I'd really like the "if you don't pay the DSC you're stiffing everyone on the ship" folks especially to weigh in on this one. I have already prepaid my DSC so the $ is there and it is allocated for tips one way or another. That's not going to change. I really don't want to remove it UNLESS I am being scammed and tricked into giving NCL more $$ rather than giving it to the people who deserve to receive it.

 

I just don't want to remove it based on misinformation--but the material I read is very convincing. https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=298 read the comments, not the CC article, that's my reason for really questioning the PROPER DSC distribution. I'm open to being wrong.

 

OH - and the argument about it saves the crew taxes - tips are taxable just like salaries. But if that is really the truth and it saves them 10%, I'd gladly add 10% to my DSC direct tip pool to compensate them. I'd MUCH rather see them be honest and pay taxes and get the money themselves.

 

And I don't care if this increases fares for others. Let NCL do the honest thing and add it to the fare and account for it that way. If the DSC is indeed mandatory, then it should be mandatory for ALL, not just the people who try to do the right thing. After all, it's the TOTAL fare that counts, no matter what you call the mandatory line items!

 

I HATE the little envelopes too, but at this point I wonder if there is a better way.

[NLH Arizona]

the problem with this is that if it is in the cruise fare then it becomes income for the cruise line and they then have to pay taxes on it, this way it is a seperate item and does not go towards income

When a corporation pays their taxes, it based on net income (net income would be after employee expenses, including salaries, operating expenses, etc.), so since the DSC would go to the employees as salary, I don't believe your statement is correct.

[LMaxwell]

Do not bother trying to argue with him and another one on this thread who shall rename nameless it is not worth your time, its like arguing with a rock, you will never win or change their mind

 

Aren't you the guy running a catering business that relies on tips to pay your employees instead of paying them yourself?

[LMaxwell]

Because there are jobs that exist in the world where there is little compensation outside of the tip. I used to waitress and we made about $2 an hour. I also was required to tip out the bartenders and bussers based on my sales, not my tips. So I had tables where I lost money when they didn’t tip enough to cover the amount I had to tip out on them. A person who is providing some service for you deserves some compensation for that. How would you feel if your annual review came up and your manager said that your performance needed improvement so you weren’t getting paid.

 

 

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Didn't this encourage you to provide good service? I am sure there are tips outside of the norm; good and bad, but generally didn't you find that when you provided good service you were making good money?

[Seminole1975]

What troubles me about this whole scenario is there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that the people "who make our cruise special" see ZERO from the DSC. There's a lot of conversation in an article CC wrote about cruise tipping where a number of people say that they have heard from their steward, waiter, etc that they have a contract and they get paid exactly what is in the contract, and not a penny more, no matter what, DSC or no DSC. It's also been said on THIS thread that our DSC gets distributed across the fleet to cover ships whose pax tend to not tip. I have NO OBLIGATION to tip that staff at all, I want to tip the ones that made MY cruise special! (although it may be true that it doesn't matter anyway if NCL really just uses DSC to make payroll and staff gets zero above their contract salary anyway).

 

I just have 2 questions. Is NCL lying then about the DSC and that it gets distributed to staff behind the scenes in some way? And if so, how long would they be able to get away with it?

[erdoran]

When a corporation pays their taxes, it based on net income (net income would be after employee expenses, including salaries, operating expenses, etc.), so since the DSC would go to the employees as salary, I don't believe your statement is correct.

So then DSC would be added to gross receipts just like cruise fares would be, and operating expenses and salaries deducted from gross receipts, right? In which case tax treatment would be the same whether it was part of the fare or the current DSC.

 

I have to think it has different tax treatment but I don't have a clue what. There HAS to be a reason NCL says it's discretionary and allows removal, thus risks losing a percentage of this revenue stream. Either they are really tips and given to staff, contradicting what's been said in the comments to the CC article, or there is some other tax treatment. I know that in PA a service charge has sales tax but a gratuity doesn't, so adding it to the fare most likely would increase the amount of tax the pax pay, but that's one state in the US; I don't know what tax laws apply to NCL.

[LMaxwell]

How did all the behind the scenes people get paid before the introduction of DSC?

[erdoran]

What troubles me about this whole scenario is there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that the people "who make our cruise special" see ZERO from the DSC. There's a lot of conversation in an article CC wrote about cruise tipping where a number of people say that they have heard from their steward, waiter, etc that they have a contract and they get paid exactly what is in the contract, and not a penny more, no matter what, DSC or no DSC. It's also been said on THIS thread that our DSC gets distributed across the fleet to cover ships whose pax tend to not tip. I have NO OBLIGATION to tip that staff at all, I want to tip the ones that made MY cruise special! (although it may be true that it doesn't matter anyway if NCL really just uses DSC to make payroll and staff gets zero above their contract salary anyway).

 

I just have 2 questions. Is NCL lying then about the DSC and that it gets distributed to staff behind the scenes in some way? And if so, how long would they be able to get away with it?

 

Seminole, I wish I knew. The thread I'm referencing has numerous posters saying their steward or other staff members have stated that they get zero from DSC; others have been told the same thing by former employees - who say that it is in their contract that if they disclose this then they are fired. If I had even reasonable confidence that the DSC went to the staff this would be a non-issue for me. CC has really driven home to me and I'm sure to others that the staff work really really hard, and if I'm spending hundreds of dollars to thank them, I'd like to know that they get it, rather than I'm just contributing to NCL's bottom line and they get their paycheck and nothing more.

[NLH Arizona]

So then DSC would be added to gross receipts just like cruise fares would be, and operating expenses and salaries deducted from gross receipts, right? In which case tax treatment would be the same whether it was part of the fare or the current DSC.

 

I was speaking to the issue if the cruise lines just folded in the DSC to their income and then paid the crew's salary like any other company, where the poster said they would then have to back taxes on it, which is incorrect. I don't know how the DSC is handled as a separate entity, that is a question for a CPA. Edited August 12, 2018 by NLH Arizona

[NLH Arizona]

 

Seminole, I wish I knew. The thread I'm referencing has numerous posters saying their steward or other staff members have stated that they get zero from DSC; others have been told the same thing by former employees - who say that it is in their contract that if they disclose this then they are fired. If I had even reasonable confidence that the DSC went to the staff this would be a non-issue for me. CC has really driven home to me and I'm sure to others that the staff work really really hard, and if I'm spending hundreds of dollars to thank them, I'd like to know that they get it, rather than I'm just contributing to NCL's bottom line and they get their paycheck and nothing more.

Please tell me the differences in the two scenarios:

 

1. NCL collects the DSC and it goes into one pocket and all that money is taken out of that one pocket and given to the employees as salary, incentive, etc.

 

2. NCL collects the DSC and it goes into one pocket and then all that money is taken out of a different pocket and given to the employees as salary, incentives, etc.

 

It really doesn't matter how NCL takes in the DSC, whether it is income to them or if it isn't, that money is used to pay the employees salaries, etc.

 

If they were to change and roll the DSC into our cruise fares and paid the employees out of income, how is that any different than scenarios one and two?

 

Some staff members might not know that their salary comes from the DSC, all they know is that they get a salary and probably don't care where it comes from. Others are probably saying this because they know that some passengers will tip them in cash and then that way they get their share of the DSC and they get additional cash. I was on a cruise (not NCL) and a MDR crew member would tell us all about her children back home and how hard it was supporting them, come to find out she had no children, it was just her way of trying to get a bigger tip.

[sanger727]

Didn't this encourage you to provide good service? I am sure there are tips outside of the norm; good and bad, but generally didn't you find that when you provided good service you were making good money?

 

 

 

Of course. And overall it averaged out to well over minimum wage. But there are some people that will tip poorly regardless of the level of service received and some people that will not tip because they felt the experience did not meet their expectations, regardless of whether or not it had to anything to do with the server (ie, food was cold, food was bad, restaurant temp was too hot/cold, the hostess was rude, etc). My point what to the person who said ‘why tip if service isn’t up to par’ and I would still tip something if that made up the person’s primary compensation. I’ve never had service to the point where I felt the person deserves to receive no compensation or in fact to lose compensation.

 

What I like about auto gratuities or DSC is that it is advertised as a way of ensuring that the crew receives a basic amount of compensation. I don’t know how it’s distributed or if one person removes it, how that will affect the person’s servers; and frankly, I don’t care. How they distribute it and set up compensation is none of my business just like my compensation at work is none of your business. I do believe that if a significant portion of passengers removes the DSC because of the arguments listed it, it would eventually hurt the crew.

 

 

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[erdoran]

Please tell me the differences in the two scenarios:

 

1. NCL collects the DSC and it goes into one pocket and all that money is taken out of that one pocket and given to the employees as salary, incentive, etc.

 

2. NCL collects the DSC and it goes into one pocket and then all that money is taken out of a different pocket and given to the employees as salary, incentives, etc.

 

It really doesn't matter how NCL takes in the DSC, whether it is income to them or if it isn't, that money is used to pay the employees salaries, etc.

 

If they were to change and roll the DSC into our cruise fares and paid the employees out of income, how is that any different than scenarios one and two?

 

Some staff members might not know that their salary comes from the DSC, all they know is that they get a salary and probably don't care where it comes from. Others are probably saying this because they know that some passengers will tip them in cash and then that way they get their share of the DSC and they get additional cash. I was on a cruise (not NCL) and a MDR crew member would tell us all about her children back home and how hard it was supporting them, come to find out she had no children, it was just her way of trying to get a bigger tip.

 

 

My issue is "does staff get a BIGGER paycheck if DSC is paid?" If their contract says "you get $x/month" and they get $x/month whether or not any of us pay DSC, then in my mind DSC is NOT a tip. A tip SUPPLEMENTS the paycheck! OTOH if it is they get $x plus something from every DSC I'm good.

 

Years ago when I did a Carnival cruise, they broke down DSC and said how much each crew category got from my DSC. I'm great with that.

 

However, if there is zero incremental increase to crew from DSC, then I don't care what pocket NCL takes their paycheck from, in my mind they are NOT benefitting from my DSC. Remember, it is positioned AS A GRATUITY which infers that it is ADDED to paychecks. right? Payroll is a cost of doing business, even if it's a ridiculously low hourly rate for a tipped position. That's what the tip is for, to supplement that low paycheck. So--if the employer uses the tips to pay that low hourly wage, then who is being stiffed?

[NLH Arizona]

My issue is "does staff get a BIGGER paycheck if DSC is paid?" If their contract says "you get $x/month" and they get $x/month whether or not any of us pay DSC, then in my mind DSC is NOT a tip. A tip SUPPLEMENTS the paycheck! OTOH if it is they get $x plus something from every DSC I'm good.

 

Here is what a poster (Chengkp75) who was an officer for NCL has posted:

 

The only thing that is "guaranteed" to a crewmember is the minimum total compensation, which is currently $614/month for a40 hour work week, plus overtime at 125% of the base wage for hours over40/week. This totals out to about $1500/month. If the base wage, overtime, andDSC totals more than this, per their contract, they get that much, if the DSCis reduced, their wages can drop to the above minimum.

 

Believe this in-the-know poster or not, that is up to you.

 

Thank for the nice discussion.

[erdoran]

Here is what a poster (Chengkp75) who was an officer for NCL has posted:

 

The only thing that is "guaranteed" to a crewmember is the minimum total compensation, which is currently $614/month for a40 hour work week, plus overtime at 125% of the base wage for hours over40/week. This totals out to about $1500/month. If the base wage, overtime, andDSC totals more than this, per their contract, they get that much, if the DSCis reduced, their wages can drop to the above minimum.

 

Believe this in-the-know poster or not, that is up to you.

 

Thank for the nice discussion.

 

NLH, that's exactly what I wanted to know--that my DSC doesn't get taken away by NCL, and that the staff's paycheck is increased based on DSC. I would be happier to know that 100% of my DSC goes to staff - this sounds more like it goes into a big pot and if the pot > $xx then the staff benefits; else they don't but I think I can live with this. I would still honestly prefer to hand each staff member what I consider their percentage of my DSC bill but given the extreme guilt trip on those of us who dare to question the sacred institution, this is better than nothing. Thanks for the info and for not flaming me for daring to ask blunt questions. I'm sure you and I want the same outcome.

[PTC DAWG]

If you’re too cheap to pay the DSC on any cruise line, just do us all a favor and stay home.