Oceania Losing Ground - Viking Many New Builds

[Paulchili]

OTOH, many popular ports in Europe in particular in the summer have too many ships in port already on ocean cruises. The river cruises are worse on all lines on these popular itineraries. Even though I love the Marina, I hated the Baltic Cruise in summer when every port even St Petersberg had multiple ships in port and too many people touring for comfort. Too many people enjoy cruising and enjoy the same itineraries so we get more and more ships and not many different itineraries.

 

This is not an issue unique to either river or ocean cruise ships. Traveling on land tours you will encounter the same problem. Traveling in general has become more popular, accessible and affordable to more people. Tourists from large countries like China and Russia that have not been allowed to travel for many years are now making up for lost time in record numbers.

Encountering large crowds of people in ALL tourist destinations is a new reality and not limited to cruising.

[bitob]

There is another complete thread on this issue. Viking is handicap accessible, however they do not allow motorized scooters aboard. They facilitate wheelchairs, walkers, and other non motorized equipment.

 

 

 

I’m guessing kitty knew that, but wanted to make a suggestive inaccurate dig.

 

 

 

I guess you don’t understand it’s inaccessible to many people. True to form

 

 

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[bitob]

In talking to the executives of Oceania this was the best year they have ever had and they are projected to have their best year ever..in 2018 ....People love O...and they are getting new guests all the time!!

Jancruz1

 

 

 

What else would they say?

I am on second leg of marina b2b.

Ship has only 800 on board both legs

 

 

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[Classiccruiser777]

In talking to the executives of Oceania this was the best year they have ever had and they are projected to have their best year ever..in 2018 ....People love O...and they are getting new guests all the time!!

Jancruz1

Glad to hear. That means the business model is sound and will continue. O has hit our sweet spot, wouldn’t change a thing.

[kitty9]

I guess you don’t understand it’s inaccessible to many people. True to form

 

 

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Yes, and only two ADA compliant cabins on the entire ship.

 

And Pinotlover, not a dig on Viking, but a reality that they don’t want people with more complicated disabilities on their ships. Maybe someday you might be totally disabled, like I have been since age 2, and will understand the frustrations.

[Jancruz]

What else would they say?

I am on second leg of marina b2b.

Ship has only 800 on board both legs

 

 

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Larraine,

They have no reason not to tell the truth..its public knowledge..just because one ship is not full doesnt mean a thing..all ships do not go out full all the time..

Jancruz1

[petcoke]

In talking to the executives of Oceania this was the best year they have ever had and they are projected to have their best year ever..in 2018 ....People love O...and they are getting new guests all the time!!

Jancruz1

More reason to have another ship on order:)

[Gnoelj]

Deleted

[Gnoelj]

I like Oceania and Viking equally and hope to cruise on both lines again. I like that all ships are smaller than the RCL, HAL, etc etc lines. I would wish all lines that want to expand would do it on smaller ships rather than larger ones. OTOH, many popular ports in Europe in particular in the summer have too many ships in port already on ocean cruises. The river cruises are worse on all lines on these popular itineraries. Even though I love the Marina, I hated the Baltic Cruise in summer when every port even St Petersberg had multiple ships in port and too many people touring for comfort. Too many people enjoy cruising and enjoy the same itineraries so we get more and more ships and not many different itineraries.

 

I do want to say a couple things about the negatives on Viking. We took our first Viking River cruise in 2007 (China, their best) and paid only 90 days in advance (maybe we booked late). Ever after on both their river and ocean cruises, we just tell them we will only pay the balance 90 days in advance and it usually works.

 

I also was surprised at the statement that they cannot accommodate disabled passengers since that would put many off disabled or not. I looked up the policy just now. They are not encouraging but what they say is that wheel chair cruisers might have problems using the elevators and going on their walking tours over cobbled streets. They do prohibit those motorized vehicles on international itineraries for some reason but do allow seeing eye and therapy dogs. I do not remember if there were disabled people on our ocean cruise but I have seen them on river cruises. Even after an announcement that we would have to climb a steep icy hill on a Seine stop, one passenger insisted on coming with the aid of two canes. He was not stopped. If not encouraging, they were not mean. Of course, this was a liability issue and Oceania also does not like to see cruisers fall in any way while touring or have trouble moving about the boat. I was surprised kitty9 above was spoken to so rudely by Viking and hope she complained. I did not see an emphasis on "active lifestyle" on my cruise unless that means negotiating the cobblestone streets.

 

Dear @tvmovielover, reading the comments here, some on the Oceania thread gave me the impression that they are quite biased against Viking, perhaps even edging towards the point of dislike or dare I say, uh, almost "hatred"???!!! However, if you compare them with comments on the Viking thread, most, if not all, seem to be like yourself , they like both Oceania and Viking, and they are quite happy to cruise with both cruise lines. They have good words for the two rival companies and seldom favour one cruise line over the other. In fact, it appears quite a number of Viking cruisers are also Oceania cruisers. Interesting, isn't it?

Edited December 21, 2017 by Gnoelj

[Mura]

We haven't tried the Viking ocean ships yet -- and while we enjoyed our first riverboat Viking trips we were disappointed with the last one. But it seemed like they were cutting costs, and maybe they were since the ocean ships were under construction at the time. We certainly don't have a bias against Viking! Our China riverboat cruise in 2008 was one of our best ever trips.

 

It has been clear to me that there are quite a few Oceania regulars here who have tried the new Viking ocean ships and like them very much. My cousin and her husband recently did a New England cruise on Viking and were very happy. (They haven't sailed with O before but they have done several Azamara cruises so they know the "R" ships quite well.)

 

Regarding the comments that Oceania is losing ground because Viking is building new ships faster, well, I don't get that. Maybe it's because I remember (as others do here) that Renaissance built too many ships too fast and came to grief as a result.

 

Also remember that many of us DO love the old "R" ships! I don't prefer the small ships over the larger ones, I enjoy them all. For those who don't want the small bathrooms on the 1990 style ships, the choice is simple. Upgrade to a higher suite. Limit yourself to the "O" ships on Oceania. Or ... move on.

 

By no means am I saying "love it or leave it"! We all have our choices. What is important to you is important to you. We have been fortunate enough to be able to book more spacious cabins but I very well understand why some prefer more space. After all, WE do!

 

If more commodious bathrooms are important to you, then the lower levels on the "R" ships won't make you happy. As I said earlier, I was very unhappy with the showers in the veranda cabins on the "R" ships to begin with, but when we returned after a downsell on a Nautica cruise in July 2016 -- we decided they weren't so bad after all. And that was after a few cruises in OCs and VSs on Marina!

 

So if the small bathrooms bother you, you are warned. We all have the right to make our choices based on various considerations.

 

Mura

[Chris86]

I don't feel Oceania are being left behind. Building new ships comes in cycles. Viking is obviously new, therefore building to create their market share. Oceania have existing ships, sure they will build new ones when the time is right for them. (I suspect after Regent receives their proposed new builds).

 

When O do build I suspect the R class will be nearing the end of their cycle life. So I hope they build somewhere in-between the size of an O and R class. (To access ports similar to the R class)

[Classiccruiser777]

When O do build I suspect the R class will be nearing the end of their cycle life. So I hope they build somewhere in-between the size of an O and R class. (To access ports similar to the R class)

A well built, well maintained ship has a service life of about 40 years. The R ships are, at best, middle aged and should have at least another 20 years of service ahead before they become scrap.

[meow!]

I assume others have seen the Oct announcement of 10 new builds for Viking in the ocean and river categories?

 

It seems to me that Oceania is rather being left behind - considering that 4 of the 6 are the old R vessels with the tiny bathrooms and showers.

 

Is there any hint of new construction for Oceania?

 

Consumers like new builds, restaurants, hotels etc - this is not to Oceania's advantage.

 

Thoughts?

 

We think Oceania has been wise, having learnt from past experience. Building many new ships may be putting the line into turbulent waters. Viking may learn the bitter lesson of over-expansionism.

[Keith1010]

As long as you are happy with Oceania I would not worry about how many ships Viking is building.

 

At some point things with the economy will slow so I am amazed how many ships are being built and it's no easy task to manage such an expansion and have consistent service levels across all ships.

 

Keith

[njhorseman]

A well built, well maintained ship has a service life of about 40 years. The R ships are, at best, middle aged and should have at least another 20 years of service ahead before they become scrap.

 

Service life in terms of being able to operate safely as a cruise ship, yes. But as ships age it becomes more and more apparent that they may lack amenities that make them commercially desirable relative to newer ships. The non-suite bathrooms on the R ships are a glaring example of design that isn't acceptable on a ship today, particularly on a cruise line that offers itself as a premium product commanding well above average per diem fares.

 

Another undesirable feature on the R ships is the main show room, which has horrible sight lines due to too little change in elevation of the seating area from the stage to the back of the room. Again that design would be never be used today and says "unimportant afterthought", not premium or luxury ship.

 

A third area sorely lacking in design by modern standards is the buffet, which has too little seating and too little space in the aisle separating the front and back buffet areas. When the R ships were designed cruise ship buffets were not as important a part of the dining offerings as they are today. Almost everyone ate in the main dining room three times a day, with the buffet being an "OK I have to get ship early for my excursion" or "I'm too tired to get dressed for dinner" type of venue. While those uses of the buffet are still important, there are a large number of cruisers who actually make the buffet their first choice for meals, and in fact Oceania recognizes that by making the buffet offerings high quality and close to main dining room in selection, with added dishes that can be cooked to order that aren't even available in the dining room.

[meow!]

 

Another undesirable feature on the R ships is the main show room, which has horrible sight lines due to too little change in elevation of the seating area from the stage to the back of the room. Again that design would be never be used today and says "unimportant afterthought", not premium or luxury ship..

A good theatre with well tiered seats is not an absolute necessity. The Silversea Spirit is a glaring example. Its theatre is cramped, single storeyed and a sore point on that ship which is going to be cut in half and lengthened to carry more passengers. Despite such a major overhaul, that theatre is going to be left unchanged. We think the R ships are lovely and can stay on for many years.

[StanandJim]

I agree with you NJHorseman, but it must also be considered that Oceania obtained the R ships via some, shall we call it "creative" financing after REN disbanded.

 

Servicing that level of debt was, and is part of determining the pricepoint of keeping those vessels in the black.

 

New ships with more au courant bells and whistles are certainly in the cards, but when they do come, they will either be significantly larger, in order to collect more money from a greater number of passengers, or charge higher fares.

 

Remember that you heard it here, first ;)

[DrHemlock]

Adding another two cents worth: The libraries on the R ships are far superior in size, layout and comfort to those on Marina and Riviera. That alone is worth tolerating the lilliputian bathrooms -- at least for those of us who spend more time reading than we do...well...you know.

[RJB]

Adding another two cents worth: The libraries on the R ships are far superior in size, layout and comfort to those on Marina and Riviera. That alone is worth tolerating the lilliputian bathrooms -- at least for those of us who spend more time reading than we do...well...you know.

Kinda of a good joke, Maybe? Or your post is a bad joke.

[njhorseman]

I agree with you NJHorseman, but it must also be considered that Oceania obtained the R ships via some, shall we call it "creative" financing after REN disbanded.

 

Servicing that level of debt was, and is part of determining the pricepoint of keeping those vessels in the black.

 

New ships with more au courant bells and whistles are certainly in the cards, but when they do come, they will either be significantly larger, in order to collect more money from a greater number of passengers, or charge higher fares.

 

Remember that you heard it here, first ;)

 

I would hope they wouldn't go the route of building larger ships.

[njhorseman]

A good theatre with well tiered seats is not an absolute necessity. The Silversea Spirit is a glaring example. Its theatre is cramped, single storeyed and a sore point on that ship which is going to be cut in half and lengthened to carry more passengers. Despite such a major overhaul, that theatre is going to be left unchanged. We think the R ships are lovely and can stay on for many years.

 

So Silversea's decision to leave what you describe as a "sore point" in place is somehow justification for Oceania having bad sight lines in its show room?

 

If Silversea had a reputation for sub par food and had no intention of improving it, would that mean it's OK for Oceania to have bad food?

[YoHoHo]

Another undesirable feature on the R ships is the main show room, which has horrible sight lines due to too little change in elevation of the seating area from the stage to the back of the room. Again that design would be never be used today and says "unimportant afterthought", not premium or luxury ship.

I like that Lounge on the R ships. Much more personality than a multi level theatre with fixed seating. It even has a small dance floor, is great for team trivia and other social activities. Far better for the Captain's Party / Welcome than presenters up in stage removed from the audience all in their rows.

 

Yes, the sight lines could be better but they are not presenting plays with little stage movement or concerts with static staging. I agree better sight lines would be good but the room as a multi function lounge is far superior to the O ships theatre IMHO

 

A third area sorely lacking in design by modern standards is the buffet, which has too little seating and too little space in the aisle separating the front and back buffet areas. When the R ships were designed cruise ship buffets were not as important a part of the dining offerings as they are today.

The service area became more cramped when they added the wonderful grill to order area. Not only took up some space but is so popular there are indeed more diners in the buffet as you mention. If only it was not so successful there would be more room. I'm fine with the service area, but find the seating area tight and hard to get back to one's table at times.

[YoHoHo]

I would hope they wouldn't go the route of building larger ships.

I agree. But the alternative is higher fares to pay for those shiny new things as StanandJim suggested. I'm happy with what we've got given those choices. Something shiny and new by itself is not enough to get my limited vacation time and money.

[Eaches]

I totally agree with Rimau. It really annoys me to have to make final payment, to Viking, so far in advance. We are currently looking at similar itineraries on Oceania and Viking. Viking has the better one, but having to make the payment so far in advance will push us towards Oceania.

 

 

 

Good stay home- you have to pay the money anyway. Pay it and get it out of the way . Pay the remainder owed - if you left in the bank you would only earn couple of dollars . You could save that plus more if you used Viking’s e check system . We earned 3.30 per cent just by using e check on the total amount .

 

 

 

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[YoHoHo]

Good stay home- you have to pay the money anyway.

Rather rude.

 

You could save that plus more if you used Viking’s e check system . We earned 3.30 per cent just by using e check on the total amount .

Good tip. It is too bad though they only accept EFTs from customers with a USA bank.