Antarctica was great but HAL cruise was so-so

[JRG]

When "appearances" support myth and superstition they often become counter-productive. When not following myth and superstition driven procedures are then used as grounds to attack a cruise line's attention to passenger health and safety, they do need to be rebutted with facts and data.

 

With all due respect, it's hard to take this hypothesis seriously when you use the word 'superstition' in this context.

 

Same for the use of 'counter-productive'. It would be tough to prove that using hand-sanitizers actually makes things worse. It may be proven that they are not 100% effective against all germs but counter-productive implies you are making the spreading of germs worse.

[jertom]

Facts are irrelevant so long as people are happy.

 

Ooh that hurts...too much truth there.

[Hlitner]

Facts are irrelevant so long as people are happy.

 

That has long been an issue on the HAL boards. We enjoyed the OP's comment because we have only been to 6 Continents with Antarctica being the one remaining personal conquest :). At this point we have decided that we cannot do that trip on HAL or most of the other mass market lines because we want to actually set foot on that Continent. To do that means going on some of the smaller ships such as Hurtigurten's vessel or perhaps Ponent (this line has our attention). But we love to read positive comments about seeing the continent (imagine the fun to be ashore).

 

Hank

[kazu]

That has long been an issue on the HAL boards.

 

Hank

 

Not just the HAL board - most boards :D:')

[Ken the cruiser]

That has long been an issue on the HAL boards. We enjoyed the OP's comment because we have only been to 6 Continents with Antarctica being the one remaining personal conquest :). At this point we have decided that we cannot do that trip on HAL or most of the other mass market lines because we want to actually set foot on that Continent. To do that means going on some of the smaller ships such as Hurtigurten's vessel or perhaps Ponent (this line has our attention). But we love to read positive comments about seeing the continent (imagine the fun to be ashore).

 

Hank

We did have a great time! Just for fun when we got back, I looked up the Silversea itinerary which has landings at a variety of spots via zodiacs near where we were on the peninsula and I don't feel like we missed out on that much. However, one reason for that was being able to do morning and afternoon off-road excursions to see different types of penguins at Port Stanley in the Falkland Islands. We also saw penguins in Argentina as well as Chile.

 

HAL did have an excursion where they would fly you to Antarctica for the day. Unfortunately, it was canceled at the last minute because of weather. Weather plays a big part in where you can go when you're there because it can change so quickly. But, however you decide to explore Antarctica, make sure if at all possible you do. It is a place like no other!

[idiebabe]

True Hank, I think we need to hear both pros and cons.

 

 

On the Royal Princess they had hand wash stations outside the buffet and a crew member directing you there. I do appreciate that the HAL lido is not self serve.

 

Unfortunately some passengers don’t stay in their rooms when ill and spread some nasty bugs. This year the flu has been rampant since May in Alaska. When it’s airborn it is tough to avoid. I became very ill on that cruise. It had only come over recently from Australia where they had a very bad year for flu. Yet I was fine on a November panama, but the ship had recently been in dry dock and passengers seemed mostly healthy.

 

Agree!

 

Zaandam has hand washing Stations on Lido as does Koningsdam and Veendam. Wish all the Ships had them!

 

I cannot use Purell and have a severe reaction to it resulting in acute Eczema. I bring my own which my hands can tolerate. However, I wash my hands thoroughly with soap and water often and especially before going to eat.

 

It’s a tough time of year with how many are sick! People bring it onboard and so many people spread it through poor hygiene. I’ve been on Cruises where Sanitizers we’re positioned outside Lido, MDR, etc. and it didn’t make a difference with the Colds and Bronchitis that went through the Ships!

[ellieanne]

Or maybe they stopped it to increase revenue in the ship's medical center. Who knows. Personally, I could care less if you sanitize your hands or not. I know I will continue to do so as I've seen the positive results of my health because of it, on and off ship. We're just upset as to the laissez faire direction HAL's management has been moving in these past few years.

 

Interesting comment given the complaint that started this thread.

 

However, two areas where HAL did not meet our expectations were (1) the quality of their NY-based production shows and (2) making sure passengers sanitized their hands when going into a dining area and when boarding the ship after a day in port.

...

Personal hygiene shortfalls. This 22 day cruise was during the height of the cold/flu season, but HAL didn't seem to realize this. In the past HAL used to insist folks going into a dining area sanitize their hands the first 48 hours of the cruise. Not any more. They used to have a crew member at the base of the gangway making sure passengers sanitize their hands before coming back on ship. Not any more. They used to have sanitizer dispensers outside the main theater entrances. Not on this cruise. As a result, this was the "sickest" HAL cruise we have ever been on as at least 1/3 of the passengers had bronchial type cold/flu symptoms the last 2+ weeks of the cruise. Going to the show in the evening was like listening to a chorus of coughing in stereo. My DW nicknamed it the Zaandam mating call. Ever have someone cough behind you in the theater and feel a light spray hit the back of your neck at the same time?

[cruisemom42]

So if you sneeze or cough in your hand, then touch an elevator button, hand rail or back of a chair, those germs transferred to your hands won't then transfer to the items you touch?

 

Sure, they could. But I believe what the other poster meant is that no amount of hand sanitizer is going to stop the airborne transmission of the flu virus (and to a lesser extent various cold viruses). Recent studies have shown that as much as 50% of the infections from flu result from the small airborne particles from sneezes and coughs.

 

You know that part of your post where you said "Ever have someone cough behind you in the theater and feel a light spray hit the back of your neck at the same time?" That.

 

Aggregating the results from the scientific studies conducted to date shows no real effect of using hand sanitizer on the spread of flu and colds. There may be a slight effect on norovirus, but only if a specific type of sanitizer is used and only if it is used correctly.

 

It doesn't matter hugely to me either way, but given the choice I would not use the sanitizer.... and I'm just as happy not to have pushy, aggressive enforcers making me do so.

[Ken the cruiser]

Interesting comment given the complaint that started this thread.

Not really as I seriously don't care if you sanitize your hands because that's not my job on a cruise. My job is to have a fun, stress-free and meaningful time of which we pay the cruise line a lot of money to make sure we have a safe and healthy environment to do that in. The healthy portion of that environment simply was not present on our Zaandam cruise, but it definitely wasn't my job to make it happen.

 

However, I did watch folks for entertainment from our balcony come back from excursions during a 30 minute span with about 75% bypassing the hand sanitizer. We also monitored the hand washing station up at the Lido deck while we ate lunch one day just to see how many folks used it. Again, about 80% of the folks ignored the station during the 15-20 minutes we sat there eating our lunch. But again, not my job. It's HAL's responsibility to make at least an attempt to provide a healthy environment.

[*Miss G*]

I am not a big advocate of making things someone else's responsibility when it is clearly the individual's. HAL has very obviously made the attempt.

[idiebabe]

I am not a big advocate of making things someone else's responsibility when it is clearly the individual's. HAL has very obviously made the attempt.

 

Agree! It’s also an impossible task whether it’s a Cruise Ship. Restaurant, Retail Store, etc.

[Ken the cruiser]

Sure, they could. But I believe what the other poster meant is that no amount of hand sanitizer is going to stop the airborne transmission of the flu virus (and to a lesser extent various cold viruses). Recent studies have shown that as much as 50% of the infections from flu result from the small airborne particles from sneezes and coughs.

 

You know that part of your post where you said "Ever have someone cough behind you in the theater and feel a light spray hit the back of your neck at the same time?" That.

 

Aggregating the results from the scientific studies conducted to date shows no real effect of using hand sanitizer on the spread of flu and colds. There may be a slight effect on norovirus, but only if a specific type of sanitizer is used and only if it is used correctly.

 

It doesn't matter hugely to me either way, but given the choice I would not use the sanitizer.... and I'm just as happy not to have pushy, aggressive enforcers making me do so.

You nay sayers can keep throwing out the negatives for using hand sanitizers, but you are never going to convince me it doesn't help reduce the transfer of germs when inconsiderate people sneeze or cough in their hands instead of their bent arm and then transfer those droplets to a common surface someone else might touch.

 

By the way CDC recommends using a hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol if you can't get to a place where you can wash your hands with soap and water.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Ken the cruiser

[Ken the cruiser]

I am not a big advocate of making things someone else's responsibility when it is clearly the individual's. HAL has very obviously made the attempt.

I'm curious, how did HAL make the attempt on our recent Zaandam cruise other than to send a letter to every cabin with instructions on how to wash your hands and cough in your hooked arm which mostly no one except a few considerate folks followed?

[*Miss G*]

I'm curious, how did HAL make the attempt on our recent Zaandam cruise other than to send a letter to every cabin with instructions on how to wash your hands and cough in your hooked arm which mostly no one except a few considerate folks followed?

 

Although a response is futile to someone with your mindset, I will humor you. Cleanliness is top notch on HAL ships. Purell and hand washing stations are available. Notices are posted in public restrooms. And, by your own admission, letters are sent to every cabin. If you don't see an attempt in any of their actions then, again, this conversation is futile.

[Ken the cruiser]

Although a response is futile to someone with your mindset, I will humor you. Cleanliness is top notch on HAL ships. Purell and hand washing stations are available. Notices are posted in public restrooms. And, by your own admission, letters are sent to every cabin. If you don't see an attempt in any of their actions then, again, this conversation is futile.

Thank you so much for humoring me. I guess our standards are just a little higher than yours. But that's ok, we're not expecting HAL to change back to the way they were and we'll continue to wash our hands and use hand sanitizers when roaming around the ship. But, the chances of us doing that on another HAL ship, except for maybe the Prinsendam, is pretty slim.

[shrimp56]

Thank you so much for humoring me. I guess our standards are just a little higher than yours. But that's ok, we're not expecting HAL to change back to the way they were and we'll continue to wash our hands and use hand sanitizers when roaming around the ship. But, the chances of us doing that on another HAL ship, except for maybe the Prinsendam, is pretty slim.

Don't slam the door on the way out.

[ithaca gal]

However, I did watch folks for entertainment from our balcony come back from excursions during a 30 minute span with about 75% bypassing the hand sanitizer. We also monitored the hand washing station up at the Lido deck while we ate lunch one day just to see how many folks used it. Again, about 80% of the folks ignored the station during the 15-20 minutes we sat there eating our lunch. But again, not my job. It's HAL's responsibility to make at least an attempt to provide a healthy environment.

 

No wonder the Mainstage Productions by HAL didn't live up to your entertainment standards! ;p

[ellieanne]

No wonder the Mainstage Productions by HAL didn't live up to your entertainment standards! ;p

 

Indeed!

 

For someone who claims not to care whether others use hand sanitizer or not, there was certainly a good deal of time devoted to paying attention to whether others use the hand sanitizer.

[CruiseMstr]

That's true as they have nice itineraries. That's why we've done 10 cruises with them. However, we prefer enjoying the cruise without having to worry about getting sick.

 

 

 

News Flash: All Cruise lines have issues with illnesses. I have not been on a ship without people coughing and sneezing.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[Cruiz'nBaers]

Thank you so much OlsSalt and Sail7Seas for your visionary thoughts. It's people like you that make HAL what it is today.

:cool: We love to sail for the itinerary, too. But, in the evenings enjoy having things to do, HAL nightlife leaves much go be desired. Daytime life on sea days is lacking as well. We do love hanging out around the pools on warm weather cruises, but sea days on last years Alaska cruise were downright boring. We have cruised HAL often, but have noticed a great reduction in their entertainment staff, and I'm not just referring to evening entertainment. I know all about self entertaining, yada yada, yada, so.........now flame away.

[Lady Arwen]

:cool: We love to sail for the itinerary' date=' too. But, in the evenings enjoy having things to do, HAL nightlife leaves much go be desired. Daytime life on sea days is lacking as well. We do love hanging out around the pools on warm weather cruises, but sea days on last years Alaska cruise were downright boring. We have cruised HAL often, but have noticed a great reduction in their entertainment staff, and I'm not just referring to evening entertainment. I know all about self entertaining, yada yada, yada, so.........now flame away.[/quote']No flaming from me. HAL is not known for it's entertainment options, both day and evening. They're known for their itineraries and peaceful, quiet atmosphere. This is not for everybody. Lots of folks enjoy varied activities throughout the day and in the evenings and into the wee hours of the morning and they enjoy being social with fellow passengers in the bars, etc. If this level of entertainment is your preference, then probably HAL is not a good fit for you. Celebrity (our #2 cruiseline) offers lots of entertainment, but we find the constant, loud music a bit much for us at times. Princess also has very decent evening entertainment. That being said, our days are so busy, what with excursions and sightseeing, we're happy to just enjoy a nice dinner and an evening in the casino or a cocktail in a lounge. HAL is a good fit for us, but we recognize that other people have much different needs.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Lady Arwen
spelling

[Ken the cruiser]

News Flash: All Cruise lines have issues with illnesses. I have not been on a ship without people coughing and sneezing.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

This is very true and, for us, how a cruise line tries to help minimize those outbreaks means a lot to us. Maybe not so for you and some other folks on this thread, but that's OK too. That's your call.

[CI66774]

You nay sayers can keep throwing out the negatives for using hand sanitizers, but you are never going to convince me it doesn't help reduce the transfer of germs when inconsiderate people sneeze or cough in their hands instead of their bent arm and then transfer those droplets to a common surface someone else might touch.

 

By the way CDC recommends using a hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol if you can't get to a place where you can wash your hands with soap and water.

 

I think it can help reduce the chance - slightly. But I've used commercial Clorox hand santizer on every cruise and sometimes I'm fine and sometimes I get the crud. It's a crap shoot when you're in tight spaces with lots of people.

[Ken the cruiser]

Indeed!

 

For someone who claims not to care whether others use hand sanitizer or not, there was certainly a good deal of time devoted to paying attention to whether others use the hand sanitizer.

Hey, I didn't want to write a negative on the Comment card during the cruise without having evidence to back up our claims. And sure enough the nay sayers proved me right.

[sail7seas]

Noro virus is rampant in nursing homes, dormitories, hotels, schools and , acutally right now at the winter Olyympics in Korea............ Hundreds of workers there are sickedned with it, I have heard announced on several news sources.