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Tin can

Tin can

Posted
Posted
Given the level of heated debate and confusion, I have come to accept that this is the right way.

 

I would go further. All prices quoted on board the ship should include service. Drinks, spa treatments, speciality dinning, everything. It is deceptive to quote a lower price and then charge 18% on the bill. Again it will take away all confusion over whether service is included and the tipping nightmare will end.

 

I'm not an accountant but I believe if that were to happen and an inclusive price charged by Royal which included 'gratuities' this would affect the amount of revenue that incurs tax. The gratuity element, if in the most part given to crew, is possibly exempt from being taxed.

 

Although as the ships are registered in the Bahamas (or somewhere like that) I'm guessing that not much is taxed anyway.

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GUT2407

GUT2407

Posted
Posted
I'm not an accountant but I believe if that were to happen and an inclusive price charged by Royal which included 'gratuities' this would affect the amount of revenue that incurs tax. The gratuity element, if in the most part given to crew, is possibly exempt from being taxed.

 

Although as the ships are registered in the Bahamas (or somewhere like that) I'm guessing that not much is taxed anyway.

Factually to the cruise company it would make no difference to the tax situation at all, as if it is paid out to the crew it would be a deduction.

 

As for the crew it will depend on their country of domicile, I believe that for some it is better to show as a tip, for others it is beneficial to be income.

 

Then comes the oft touted claim that it impacts on what they need to pay the recruitment companies. The lines would have the clout there to say if you are going to recruit for us you need to change your commission structure.

 

We then get told how it would make one line look cheaper than another if it was included in the fare and people are too stupid to to work it out. But for about 10 years the Carnival brands included it in the fare in Australia, the Royal lines didn’t, during that period guess which company grew the quickest in Australia.

 

In my opinion there must be some other benefit to 5he lines, the only 9ne I can think of is that it. Makes the balance sheet and P&L statement look better to people who have no idea how to read them.

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yuvraj

yuvraj

Posted
Posted
I'm not an accountant but I believe if that were to happen and an inclusive price charged by Royal which included 'gratuities' this would affect the amount of revenue that incurs tax. The gratuity element, if in the most part given to crew, is possibly exempt from being taxed.

 

Although as the ships are registered in the Bahamas (or somewhere like that) I'm guessing that not much is taxed anyway.

 

Surely tax is only paid on profit. Any sums that are collected as service charge and distributed as remuneration would not result in additional tax as it is neutral as far as profit is concerned.

 

In the UK there can be other employee related tax liabilities like national insurance. There could be other liabilities like pension contributions. These might apply in US as well or other countries, I don't know. However, my understanding is that many of these land based requirements don't apply to maritime crew.

 

I might not be an accountant but I have worked in finance and have run my own business. I am not persuaded by the argument that a mandatory service charge would result in higher tax compared to a discretionary service charge. That to me is not logical whatever the jurisdiction.

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banzaii

banzaii

Posted
Posted
Why does the guy in the laundry room, who will never ever come face to face with a guest, working for "tips". What a scam. Shame on the industry. Just pay support staff a reasonable wage and disconnect it from tips. Leave the tips for those that provide front line service.

 

 

 

There are several good comments in this thread and plenty of garbage. This one is closest to the mark for me!

 

How many of you big tippers have walked out the back and made sure the person washing dishes gets a nice tip at your favourite restaurant?

 

Those people who provide their service 'behind the scenes' do not have opportunity to schmooze, flirt or provide better service to increase their income. I see the arguments that the gratuities ensure these people get their 'share' of the tips. But this is not the case if passengers have the option to remove them. Therefore all 'behind the scenes staff' should be paid a fair wage and that 'cost' be added to the cruise fare or be supplemented from gross profit.

(And by the way, that billion dollar profit was after paying the staff $80M in 'bonuses').

 

For those front line staff that 'look after' passengers, I still believe they should receive an adequate base wage but also should keep the 'dangling carrot' of tips so they always provide the best service. Those that provide exceptional service will earn plenty and those that do not will have incentive to strive for improvement.

 

I firmly believe that the crew, not the ships, are the cruise lines greatest asset - it's time to invest in great staff and reward great service regardless of whether that service is front line.

 

 

Cheers

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yuvraj

yuvraj

Posted
Posted

Those people who provide their service 'behind the scenes' do not have opportunity to schmooze, flirt or provide better service to increase their income. I see the arguments that the gratuities ensure these people get their 'share' of the tips. But this is not the case if passengers have the option to remove them. Therefore all 'behind the scenes staff' should be paid a fair wage and that 'cost' be added to the cruise fare or be supplemented from gross profit.

 

 

For those front line staff that 'look after' passengers, I still believe they should receive an adequate base wage but also should keep the 'dangling carrot' of tips so they always provide the best service. Those that provide exceptional service will earn plenty and those that do not will have incentive to strive for improvement.

 

I firmly believe that the crew, not the ships, are the cruise lines greatest asset - it's time to invest in great staff and reward great service regardless of whether that service is front line.

 

 

Cheers

 

I agree with you 100%.

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Thorben-Hendrik

Thorben-Hendrik

Posted
Posted

 

I firmly believe that the crew, not the ships, are the cruise lines greatest asset - it's time to invest in great staff and reward great service regardless of whether that service is front line.

 

 

Cheers

Totally dissagree - crew is interchangable and does not make much of a difference to us - it is the ships and their features that count!(y)

When you book a cruise you look at the ships features and have no visibility of the crew involved!

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IceManCan

IceManCan

Posted
Posted
Well said. RCCL made a PROFIT of 1.28 BILLION in 2016. That's not revenue that's profit. I think they could afford to pay their people a little better and remove the burden and guessing game of "tips" from their guests.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/tourism/fl-royal-caribbean-4q2016-results-20170126-story.html

This same argument could be made for just about every major company in the USA. Billions in profits with employees who make less than living wages. This however is a conversation that doesnt belong on cruise critic.

 

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Forums mobile app

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PopeyeDaSailor

PopeyeDaSailor

Posted
Posted
This same argument could be made for just about every major company in the USA. Billions in profits with employees who make less than living wages. This however is a conversation that doesnt belong on cruise critic.

 

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Forums mobile app

 

Why doesn't it belong here, because you feel it doesn't? If you disagree then post why you disagree instead of lecturing me on topic details. I simply said that with their profit they should be able to build tips into price and allow people to enjoy their vacation without having to bring cash, or worry about tipping. That way if someone wants to tip extra on top it's up to them.

 

Again this is simply my opinion which I'm entitled to just like you are entitled to your opinion.

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IceManCan

IceManCan

Posted
Posted
Why doesn't it belong here, because you feel it doesn't? If you disagree then post why you disagree instead of lecturing me on topic details. I simply said that with their profit they should be able to build tips into price and allow people to enjoy their vacation without having to bring cash, or worry about tipping. That way if someone wants to tip extra on top it's up to them.

 

Again this is simply my opinion which I'm entitled to just like you are entitled to your opinion.

I was referring to the topic of corporate profits versus employee salaries. That is a topic far too complex for cruise critic and really doesn't belong on cruise critic.

 

However since you are not gonna change Royal Caribbean's salary structure. If you don't like the idea that you have to add extra gratuities on at the end of your cruise in order to make sure that those employees are making a fair salary then perhaps you should choose a different form a vacation or a different cruise line!

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Forums mobile app

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PopeyeDaSailor

PopeyeDaSailor

Posted
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I was referring to the topic of corporate profits versus employee salaries. That is a topic far too complex for cruise critic and really doesn't belong on cruise critic.

 

However since you are not gonna change Royal Caribbean's salary structure. If you don't like the idea that you have to add extra gratuities on at the end of your cruise in order to make sure that those employees are making a fair salary then perhaps you should choose a different form a vacation or a different cruise line!

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Forums mobile app

 

Or if you don't like my opinion perhaps you should choose to ignore it or post in a different thread instead of preaching to me how to live my life.

 

 

And if enough people talk about tipping in places like these what makes you think people at RCL don't read them? I have no problem tipping and 99.9% of the time always give people 20% in the service industry. Only rarely do I lower my tipping standards and the service has to be very poor for me to do that. As others have said in this thread tipping is uniquely an American thing and other industries have built tipping into the business models. But hey brother preach onto us how we should live some more, it's really helpful! :confused:

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IceManCan

IceManCan

Posted
Posted
Or if you don't like my opinion perhaps you should choose to ignore it or post in a different thread instead of preaching to me how to live my life.

 

 

And if enough people talk about tipping in places like these what makes you think people at RCL don't read them? I have no problem tipping at at and 99.9% of the time always give people 20% in the service industry. Only rarely do I lower my tipping standards and the service has to be very poor for me to do that. As others have said in this thread tipping is uniquely an American thing and other industries have built tipping into the business models. But hey brother preach onto us how we should live some more, it's really helpful! :confused:

The only result even if RCL ends its tipping practices would be they would raise the price of the cruise by 20% either way you're spending the same money.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Forums mobile app

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PopeyeDaSailor

PopeyeDaSailor

Posted
Posted
The only result even if RCL ends its tipping practices would be they would raise the price of the cruise by 20% either way you're spending the same money.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Forums mobile app

 

Hey I'm not here to fight with you on this, we just differ on our opinions and I didn't mean to jump back at you.

 

 

I agree it would cost more but it's why I posted their profit margins in the first place. With the right marketing they (RCL) could advertise "tip free sailing dates" and try it as an experiment to see if they generate more business by eating into their profit margin slightly if they book more rooms then it would be a win win (assuming they actually paid their staff more).

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Cruisercl

Cruisercl

Posted
Posted
I won't flame you, and given the reputation of Britsh politness I am sure you can appreciate that you are not alone in thinking others manners and customs should be respected. Indeed, Britain is one of the most open and tolerant countries on earth.

 

However, what you clearly fail to understand is cruising is now an international vacation choice.

 

The US is alone in the world with your tipping culture - it is therefore logical that in this case it is US customs that should adapt. And not just to eliminate confusion, but to safeguard cruise ship staff and their earnings.

 

I always pre-pay my grats, but it is this subject would never arise if people did not pay them or wish to pay them.

 

Mmmmm.....don't agree with most of your opinions, however, no failures here.

 

When purchasing a USA product it is the expectation that the business and social norms be respected, as it is in reverse. I deal with international business and law all of the time.

Yes, cruising is an international vacation but when it is purchased from a USA company, the business and social norms do not change even though it may start in an OUS port.

When the people from outside of the USA have chosen a USA cruise line, they know this so the expectation is to follow the norms. Just as it is expected in all countries globally.

 

It is a cultural norm in the USA really; IMHO it is about cultural acceptance.

 

Questions: how do OUS cruise lines charge for their service charges? If it is included in the upfront cost, what difference does it make when it is paid?

 

Safe sailing!! :)

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RocketMan275

RocketMan275

Posted
Posted
Well said. RCCL made a PROFIT of 1.28 BILLION in 2016. That's not revenue that's profit. I think they could afford to pay their people a little better and remove the burden and guessing game of "tips" from their guests.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/tourism/fl-royal-caribbean-4q2016-results-20170126-story.html

 

Oh, just as I suspected. Your argument is that if RCCL made less of a profit, you wouldn't have to pay as much for a cruise. This is exactly what I've pointed our in the past. One of the big objection to tipping is the desire to pay less for a cruise.

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gerif

gerif

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Posted

I agree it would cost more but it's why I posted their profit margins in the first place. With the right marketing they (RCL) could advertise "tip free sailing dates" and try it as an experiment to see if they generate more business by eating into their profit margin slightly if they book more rooms then it would be a win win (assuming they actually paid their staff more).

HAL tried that years ago. No tipping. So, we didn’t bring our usual envelopes of tip money (this was long before you could prepay tips or have them added to your account). We really felt a bit of resentment from the crew as a whole. Now this was our only HAL cruise so I don’t know how things would have been otherwise but rather than a friendly hello when passing in the halls, we just got glared at. Kind of creepy. Then on the last day at the disembarkation talk, the cruise director said oh I know tipping is not required, but if you really loved your room steward, waitstaff, etc., there will be envelopes provided in your cabin so you can show your appreciation. While we have no problem tipping generously, this really left a bad taste in our mouths.

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SHIP TRAVELER

SHIP TRAVELER

Posted
Posted

I think that this is the way of the world because of on line searches looking for the best bottom line. I know that in Las Vegas room prices quoted can double with the addition of required resort fees... sometimes more than $40 per day.

 

When you do an on line search you are comparing the base price of different rooms without resort fees that may vary a lot. You get blind sided at check in.

 

If cruise lines showed the suggested tips as part of the price per person it would reflect the true higher price of the cruise. Tips to me are a hidden fee that needs to be paid to make up part of the crews salary. Certainly no union would put up with this practice and many higher end cruise lines do not add tips because they pay their people directly.

This is just a soap box opinion about hidden charges overall. I do always pay at least the suggested tips and more because it is salary, not tips, in my opinion.

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