Redoing and Renaming ships - what is the reason?

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, evandbob said:

What is there to debate?  I have my opinion, I'm not sailing OLD ships, even if they have been remodeled to generate more income for the Corporation than that OLD ship did.  Rebranding and repurposing can be an effective technique to get consumers to keep buying a product.

 

I prefer the newer Dream and Vista class ships on Carnival, although I will sail a Conquest class ship for the tiny reduction a casino fare gives me.  I just happen to like the larger, newer ships.  I will be making an exception for the Legend's cruise to Norway though.

 

Nothing wrong with your opinion either, that's why there's no debate.  We are both right if we remain true to ourselves.  Have fun sailing the Sunrise, Sunshine, Sunset, whatever, I'll stick to the type ship that appeals to me.  My opinion may get even more jaundiced after I sail RCCL's Symphony OTS.

Now see, I did not see lipstick mentioned once there.  

[Thorncroft]

Sunrise will be a perfectly fine ship. It will hardly be recognizable as the old Triumph. Even on the outside, word is that it will be the first of the fleet with the dark blue hull and it's already had a new ducktail added. I'm sure that Jimbo just choked on his Corn Flakes, but Carnival does get things right, more times than not. I'm just not averse to pointing out the things that I think they got wrong.  This isn't one of them. 

[Jamman54]

I have no issue with these ships being renamed as they are being "reborn" in a way. It's not just that they are hiding past history. Yes, I know that the Destiny was not favorably regarded, and the Triumph had that one disasterous  cruise, but the Victory had no such "history" and it is being renamed. Though they are not "new" ships in the sense of them not being just built, but after such extensive dry docks they will feel "new" in the sense of amenities, look, and overall feel. I sailed on the Destiny twice, but when I stepped aboard the Sunshine for the first time, other than the copper panels in the stairwells, I thought I was on a completely different ship. This is just my opinion.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Jamman54

[jsglow]

Having sailed on both Destiny and Sunshine and LOVING the massive overall conversion, I look forward to the launch of Sunrise and Radiance.  To me the renaming makes sense when that kind of money is spent to completely overhaul the vessel.

[Jamman54]

10 minutes ago, Thorncroft said:

 I'm sure that Jimbo just choked on his Corn Flakes. 

 

That's priceless and probably true!

[jsglow]

3 minutes ago, Jamman54 said:

I have no issue with these ships being renamed as they are being "reborn" in a way. It's not just that they are hiding past history. Yes, I know that the Destiny was not favorably regarded, and the Triumph had that one disasterous  cruise, but the Victory had no such "history" and it is being renamed. Though they are not "new" ships in the sense of them not being just built, but after such extensive dry docks they will feel "new" in the sense of amenities, look, and overall feel. I sailed on the Destiny twice, but when I stepped aboard the Sunshine for the first time, other than the copper panels in the stairwells, I though I was on a completely different ship. This is just my opinion.

 

Those jumped out at me too.  And I remember being glad they retained them.  I personally find these discussions entertaining.  That stairway panel was literally the ONLY thing the ship had in common with its predecessor from the guest's standpoint. 

Edited April 6, 2019 by jsglow

[Thorncroft]

3 minutes ago, Jamman54 said:

I have no issue with these ships being renamed as they are being "reborn" in a way. It's not just that they are hiding past history. Yes, I know that the Destiny was not favorably regarded, and the Triumph had that one disasterous  cruise, but the Victory had no such "history" and it is being renamed. Though they are not "new" ships in the sense of them not being just built, but after such extensive dry docks they will feel "new" in the sense of amenities, look, and overall feel. I sailed on the Destiny twice, but when I stepped aboard the Sunshine for the first time, other than the copper panels in the stairwells, I though I was on a completely different ship. This is just my opinion.

 

It's good to see Carnival do these while the ships are still in their fleet.  They completely made over the Holiday when it left the fleet enroute to Ibero.  The conversion was nothing short of amazing. They scrubbed every bit of Carnival from the ship except for the funnel. It was nearly unrecognizable as the old Holiday. 

[Joebucks]

2 hours ago, LJN22 said:

I disagree that it is all "marketing." Look at the before and after of the Destiny to the Sunshine. It was a completely different ship. if they are adding new venues and cabins and drastically changing the public spaces, how is that marketing? A lot of people do not want to go on old, outdated ships. I look at videos of the fantasy class ships and I would never sail on them. They are horrible looking. So many of the early Carnival ships are Joe Farcus floating nightmares. They need to update and that is what they are doing. The fantasy class will also have a future for budget cruisers, but I think they are trying to expand the market a little. When you look at all RCI has to offer and the new Norwegian ships Carnival really needs to step up their game and it seems as if they are doing it now. I sailed the Horizon last year and I am sailing her again this year. She is a very nice ship and the public spaces are visually pleasing. 

The Triumph may be 20 years old, but if they change everything inside and out (including mechanically) then it will not seem like an old ship. That is an extensive, lengthy and costly dry dock. I sailed the Sunshine last year and loved that ship. Not trying to start a fight, just giving my two cents. 

 

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

Nice post, sometimes even facts confuse some 

 

Thank you for the elaborate explanation of why it is not marketing by explaining how marketing works. Here is the very first Google result for the marketing definition

 

Quote

The action or business of promoting and selling products or services, including market research and advertising.

 

Maybe my original post made it sound like marketing was always a bad thing. It's not. Most of us sail Carnival because they have marketed correctly towards us.

 

At which point during a dry dock refurb does it mean a ship has to be renamed? There is no other reason to rename the ship other than marketing. The "fact" is that Carnival is making this ship more marketable.

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Joebucks

[Jamman54]

10 minutes ago, Thorncroft said:

 

It's good to see Carnival do these while the ships are still in their fleet.  They completely made over the Holiday when it left the fleet enroute to Ibero.  The conversion was nothing short of amazing. They scrubbed every bit of Carnival from the ship except for the funnel. It was nearly unrecognizable as the old Holiday. 

 

The same can be said about Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line's Grand Celebration. The interior shots from that ship look amazing also. I am tempted to book it one day just for nostalgia's sake. I was lucky to be around to sail on the Holiday, Jubilee, and Celebration when they were brand new. These were the ships that got me addicted. Sad that the Jubilee was scrapped.

[AdGuyMG]

22 hours ago, Oceansaway17 said:

Any interesting thoughts on why Carnival has started the trend of not only renovating their ships but giving them a new identity and new name?

 

Were this ships under performing?  Why new names?  What do you think and has anyone been on the old and new version of either ships?

 

Just wanted to start the topic because they have now done two ships.

 

 Other lines have not done this, they just sell their ships.

 

They are taking the class of ship between Fantasy Class and Conquest Class originally called the Destiny Class and transforming them to a new class that evoke a sun theme.

 

Destiny = Sunshine  ** Triumph = Sunrise ** Victory = Radiance

 

NCL stretched and renovated the Norwegian Dream and Norwegian Wind and renamed them the Dreamward and Windward. They did not just sell them.

 

Royal Caribbean sailed the Empress for 14 years as the Nordic Empress (1990 - 2004) and changed the name in 2004 to Empress Of The Seas.

 

It changed the name to just ms Empress when it went to Pullmantour in 2008 and got changed back again after a major refurbishment and came back to RCCL as the Empress Of The Seas in 2016.

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, Thorncroft said:

 

It's good to see Carnival do these while the ships are still in their fleet.  They completely made over the Holiday when it left the fleet enroute to Ibero.  The conversion was nothing short of amazing. They scrubbed every bit of Carnival from the ship except for the funnel. It was nearly unrecognizable as the old Holiday. 

Well that is one of looking at it

[jimbo5544]

27 minutes ago, AdGuyMG said:

 

They are taking the class of ship between Fantasy Class and Conquest Class originally called the Destiny Class and transforming them to a new class that evoke a sun theme.

 

Destiny = Sunshine  ** Triumph = Sunrise ** Victory = Radiance

 

NCL stretched and renovated the Norwegian Dream and Norwegian Wind and renamed them the Dreamward and Windward. They did not just sell them.

 

Royal Caribbean sailed the Empress for 14 years as the Nordic Empress (1990 - 2004) and changed the name in 2004 to Empress Of The Seas.

 

It changed the name to just ms Empress when it went to Pullmantour in 2008 and got changed back again after a major refurbishment and came back to RCCL as the Empress Of The Seas in 2016.

You beat me to the examples

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, Jamman54 said:

 

The same can be said about Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line's Grand Celebration. The interior shots from that ship look amazing also. I am tempted to book it one day just for nostalgia's sake. I was lucky to be around to sail on the Holiday, Jubilee, and Celebration when they were brand new. These were the ships that got me addicted. Sad that the Jubilee was scrapped.

Agree, Celebration was our first cruise.  Someone here has posted a review of this NEW ship a while back.  

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, Thorncroft said:

Sunrise will be a perfectly fine ship. It will hardly be recognizable as the old Triumph. Even on the outside, word is that it will be the first of the fleet with the dark blue hull and it's already had a new ducktail added. I'm sure that Jimbo just choked on his Corn Flakes, but Carnival does get things right, more times than not. I'm just not averse to pointing out the things that I think they got wrong.  This isn't one of them. 

Lol, I was on a plane, wish I had read it earlier

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, Jamman54 said:

I have no issue with these ships being renamed as they are being "reborn" in a way. It's not just that they are hiding past history. Yes, I know that the Destiny was not favorably regarded, and the Triumph had that one disasterous  cruise, but the Victory had no such "history" and it is being renamed. Though they are not "new" ships in the sense of them not being just built, but after such extensive dry docks they will feel "new" in the sense of amenities, look, and overall feel. I sailed on the Destiny twice, but when I stepped aboard the Sunshine for the first time, other than the copper panels in the stairwells, I thought I was on a completely different ship. This is just my opinion.

We sailed Destiny twice and the second time we were shocked at how she had once been the grans dame of all the seas (some will not like that bit it was true and had done sown so far.  

 

We  were on the Sunshine at her naming  ceremony on New Orleans and was frankly blown away with what they has done.  This ship far exceeded my grandest expectations.  After sailing her twice I have even higher expectations for the Sunrise and Radiance.  Carnival has improved what they learned from Sunshine to make these next two better.    

[jbethel11]

8 hours ago, RWolver672 said:

 

I think they will always have a future if they want to continue having ships sail from Tampa.  Larger ships can't get under the bridge.  

The Spirit Class can fit, so I am willing to bet that the Sunshine Class can.

[LJN22]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

 

Thank you for the elaborate explanation of why it is not marketing by explaining how marketing works. Here is the very first Google result for the marketing definition

 

 

Maybe my original post made it sound like marketing was always a bad thing. It's not. Most of us sail Carnival because they have marketed correctly towards us.

 

At which point during a dry dock refurb does it mean a ship has to be renamed? There is no other reason to rename the ship other than marketing. The "fact" is that Carnival is making this ship more marketable.

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by LJN22

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, Jamman54 said:

I have no issue with these ships being renamed as they are being "reborn" in a way. It's not just that they are hiding past history. Yes, I know that the Destiny was not favorably regarded, and the Triumph had that one disasterous  cruise, but the Victory had no such "history" and it is being renamed. Though they are not "new" ships in the sense of them not being just built, but after such extensive dry docks they will feel "new" in the sense of amenities, look, and overall feel. I sailed on the Destiny twice, but when I stepped aboard the Sunshine for the first time, other than the copper panels in the stairwells, I thought I was on a completely different ship. This is just my opinion.

We sailed Destiny twice and the second time we were shocked at how she had once been the grans dame of all the seas (some will not like that bit it was true and had done sown so far.  

 

We  were on the Sunshine at her naming  ceremony on New Orleans and was frankly blown away with what they has done.  This ship far exceeded my grandest expectations.  After sailing her twice I have even higher expectations for the Sunrise and Radiance.  Carnival has improved what they learned from Sunshine to make these next two better.    

[Thorncroft]

9 minutes ago, jbethel11 said:

The Spirit Class can fit, so I am willing to bet that the Sunshine Class can.

 

Don't think so.  The Spirit class has a really short, squat funnel. They barely clear the bridge. 

[AdGuyMG]

46 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

You beat me to the examples

Two other examples i forgot. Both also NCL.

 

The Pride Of Hawaii was pulled from Hawaii and redone as the Norwegian Jade and the Pride Of Aloha is now the NCL Sky.

[jsglow]

2 hours ago, Thorncroft said:

 

Don't think so.  The Spirit class has a really short, squat funnel. They barely clear the bridge. 

 

 

I agree.  The Spirit class boats are 85,000 tons.  All the Sunshine class boats are over 100,000.  While displacement doesn't necessarily matter, I have no doubt the Spirit class boats have smaller dimensions.  I expect them to remain in the fleet.

[Jared100]

14 hours ago, RWolver672 said:

 

Would you mind explaining that.  What is lame about the larger ships can't get under the bridge?  As long as there is a market for Tampa, they will continue to have ships sail from there.  And there are a lot of people that don't like the mega ships and prefer the Fantasy class..

Its safe to say more people than not prefer NON Fantasy class ships. What's lame is that the Port of Tampa is mechanically limited by the Sky Way and will never be able to accommodate any decently sized ships, which happens to include almost every new ship. I don't mind having to drive to PC, but living in Tampa, it would be nice to be able to cruise out of here without sacrificing on ship amenities 

[SNJCruisers]

9 hours ago, Jamman54 said:

Sad that the Jubilee was scrapped.

She was my first...back in July of 1986 when she was shiny and new.  Skeet shooting off the aft deck, pillow fights in the pool, ping pong ball stuffed bikinis, horse racing poolside and midnight buffets.  Seems like only yesterday.

[Jamman54]

48 minutes ago, Jared100 said:

Its safe to say more people than not prefer NON Fantasy class ships. What's lame is that the Port of Tampa is mechanically limited by the Sky Way and will never be able to accommodate any decently sized ships, which happens to include almost every new ship. I don't mind having to drive to PC, but living in Tampa, it would be nice to be able to cruise out of here without sacrificing on ship amenities 

 

The same holds true for the ports of  Baltimore and Jacksonville. 

[Jamman54]

7 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

She was my first...back in July of 1986 when she was shiny and new.  Skeet shooting off the aft deck, pillow fights in the pool, ping pong ball stuffed bikinis, horse racing poolside and midnight buffets.  Seems like only yesterday.

 

We are dating ourselves you know. 😃