Change in Debarkation in LA due to reduced speeds to protect marine life

[donswife]

I am on the Sept 14 Royal as well, and our EZ air flight is still within the cut off. There is a paragraph in the e-mail advising those with independent arrangements that they can contact Princess to request a refund for flight change expenses. I would guess this only applies if the original flights were within the original time guidelines. 

[CynCyn]

1 hour ago, vampiress said:

i wasn't looking on princess, i was looking for the laws, specifically the law that changed inthe past week or so causing people to last minute flight change.

 

i found this about the VSRP but it is just a kudos post for ongoing compliance, not a change in the speeds or distance for compliance

https://www.portoflosangeles.org/references/news_071219_vsrp

 

I’ve googled all day and can’t find a thing! 

[MixerDave]

9 hours ago, satxdiver said:

We are on the Star in November to HI and received this notice yesterday.  We will now be boarding between 2:00 and 5:00.  Thankfully we have a 1:30 flight out of LAX and should have plenty of time to make the gate.  

We are on the Star in December, but have not received the notice yet.  Since we are staying at a hotel near the port, we will be affected regarding the gap between hotel check out and boarding.  Hopefully the hotel will hold our luggage, which will give us extra time for lunch and shopping for wine.

[Ombud]

A link to this thread was posted on my 10/14/19 Royal Princess cruise out of San Pedro. Does anyone know if embarkation is delayed? I'm taking a 9:15 flight from SFO to LAX which means I leave the house at 6 (Bart 😔) ... it'd be nice to leave a few hours later. Checked EZAIR and my return flight is still 12:30

[EDVM96]

This should be the reason:

 

NOAA strongly recommends that vessels 300 gross registered tons or larger transiting the Santa Barbara Channel Traffic Separation Scheme between Carrington Point, Santa Rosa Island and Diablo Point, Santa Cruz Island, do so at speeds not in excess of 10 kts due to endangered whales in the area.

 

https://channelislands.noaa.gov/management/resource/ship_strikes.html

Edited September 1, 2019 by EDVM96

[vampiress]

that is fascinating, but that also doesn't seem to be a new thing.  i would have expected a new law or restriction in place to cause the sudden change.  i guess since it does seem that is voluntary, princess just decided to opt in.

 

 

 

 

[nukesubsailor]

I can't help but wonder if this speed limits applies to all vessels or just commercial ships.  I would think small boats running at full throttle could do more damage to marine life than a big ship cruising at 18 knots.

[nukesubsailor]

Unforeseen Consequences:

Lower cruise ship speed limit = less time in port = less income for shore businesses = less sales and income tax to the state = state raises sales and income tax rate.

 

[ceilidh1]

5 minutes ago, nukesubsailor said:

Unforeseen Consequences:

Lower cruise ship speed limit = less time in port = less income for shore businesses = less sales and income tax to the state = state raises sales and income tax rate.

 

Additionally, more fuel consumption on ship - maybe increased prices for passengers?

[DrivesLikeMario]

Just when you thought taxes in CA couldn't get any higher...there's one thing we know for sure, we'll pay for it one way or another.

[XBGuy]

2 hours ago, vampiress said:

that is fascinating, but that also doesn't seem to be a new thing.  i would have expected a new law or restriction in place to cause the sudden change.  i guess since it does seem that is voluntary, princess just decided to opt in.

 

Just a wild guess, but I wonder if this new-found concern is related to the court settlement last June.   "See.  Not only are we taking pains not to pollute (again), but we are also taking pains to protect the wildlife."  Again, just a guess.  Whatever the reason, I approve.

 

I visited my optometrist the other day for the old annual eyeball check.  My wife and I have been going to Dr. Patel for almost 20 years and feel we have a good relationship with her.  Our visits are always sprinkled with small talk about what is going on in our lives.  She always knows the best local Indian restaurants.  It turns out that the previous week her husband went whale watching out of Dana Point and encountered multiple Blue Whales.  So, they're out there folks.  Blues are absolutely awesome.  My wife and I went whale watching out of Long Beach a few years ago and also encountered Blues.  One popped up next to our boat no more than 20 yards away.  The docent (who works for the Aquarium of the Pacific) was so excited, I thought he was going to hyperventilate.

[XBGuy]

1 hour ago, nukesubsailor said:

Unforeseen Consequences:

Lower cruise ship speed limit = less time in port = less income for shore businesses = less sales and income tax to the state = state raises sales and income tax rate.

 

 

Do you really think that many cruises make port stops to Los Angeles/Long Beach?

 

Most of my cruises begin/end in Los Angeles.  I have seen ships that are making port stops, but not really that often.  I've seen a couple Silver Sea and a couple NCL ships in Los Angeles and I've seen a Princess ship in Long Beach once.  Sometimes Royal Caribbean or Celebrity will run a few round trip coastal cruises out of Los Angeles in the fall as they are moving ships out of Alaska.  Again, though, those are not port stops.  A couple years ago there was a Saturday when two Princess ships were turning around between cruises, a Royal Caribbean ship was turning around and one NCL was making a port stop.  That was a bad day to be at the port.  San Pedro does not normally get that kind of traffic.  Granted the local hotels and restaurants do a pretty good business from passengers flying in a day early to embark, but I don't see that changing.

[XBGuy]

1 hour ago, ceilidh1 said:

Additionally, more fuel consumption on ship - maybe increased prices for passengers?

 

Do you really think so? 

 

I am, certainly, no expert, but I thought that driving a ship was similar to driving a car in that holding the throttle wide open sucked up more fuel than pretending there was a egg between your foot and the pedal.

 

We need the chief engineer to provide an opinion that is more informed than mine to help out, here.

[ceilidh1]

1 hour ago, XBGuy said:

 

Do you really think so? 

 

I am, certainly, no expert, but I thought that driving a ship was similar to driving a car in that holding the throttle wide open sucked up more fuel than pretending there was a egg between your foot and the pedal.

 

We need the chief engineer to provide an opinion that is more informed than mine to help out, here.

No expert here, either, but I would assume that if there is less time in port and more time at sea (due to slower speeds) then fuel consumption would increase....

[BCCRUSINGCOUPLE]

Here is my two cents I would think it might balance out a bit as when in port most of the times the engines are running this way those idle hours now will be out at sea.


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[aprilsp88]

Does anyone know if the change of disembarkation time applies to all ships? We haven't received notice (Christmas cruise) but should I be proactive and change our return flight?

 

I even called Princess but they don't have any information. She told me I will receive an "emergency notice" if the time changes, but at that time it will be too late!

[nukesubsailor]

3 hours ago, XBGuy said:

 

Do you really think that many cruises make port stops to Los Angeles/Long Beach?

 

Most of my cruises begin/end in Los Angeles.  I have seen ships that are making port stops, but not really that often.  I've seen a couple Silver Sea and a couple NCL ships in Los Angeles and I've seen a Princess ship in Long Beach once.  Sometimes Royal Caribbean or Celebrity will run a few round trip coastal cruises out of Los Angeles in the fall as they are moving ships out of Alaska.  Again, though, those are not port stops.  A couple years ago there was a Saturday when two Princess ships were turning around between cruises, a Royal Caribbean ship was turning around and one NCL was making a port stop.  That was a bad day to be at the port.  San Pedro does not normally get that kind of traffic.  Granted the local hotels and restaurants do a pretty good business from passengers flying in a day early to embark, but I don't see that changing.

Read post #2 and you see the lowering of cruise speed in this area has an effect on other ports as well as LA.

[damiross]

https://www.portoflosangeles.org/environment/air-quality/vessel-speed-reduction-program gives details on the program.  It's basically the government, based on probably bad science, giving cruise and cargo lines an incentive to go slower to supposedly reduce air pollution and save the marine life.  

 

Princess (and other lines) will get an incentive (i.e. money) for going slower.

 

 

[XBGuy]

18 hours ago, nukesubsailor said:

Read post #2 and you see the lowering of cruise speed in this area has an effect on other ports as well as LA.

 

You are, of course, correct.  Clearly, similar restrictions apply for stops in San Francisco, Monterey, Santa Barbara, and, I would assume, San Diego.   I am aware of marine preserves in these areas.  I do not know if there are similar preserves off the coasts of Washington or Oregon that would affect ports in those states.

[CynCyn]

19 hours ago, damiross said:

https://www.portoflosangeles.org/environment/air-quality/vessel-speed-reduction-program gives details on the program.  It's basically the government, based on probably bad science, giving cruise and cargo lines an incentive to go slower to supposedly reduce air pollution and save the marine life.  

 

Princess (and other lines) will get an incentive (i.e. money) for going slower.

 

 

Curious as to why you think it’s bad science.

[Cruise Raider]

I sail in October out of SF and haven't received any notification from Princess as of yet.  Nor have I seen any change in the times of sailing or arrival from and into the port on the itinerary.  

Anyway, I find this interesting prompting me to do a little research and found this.  

 

https://www.ourair.org/wp-content/uploads/2019-Attachment-B-LOU-and-Sign-Up-Form.pdf

 

This appears to be based on #4 under the Legislative Counsel's Digest in of California SB-69:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200SB69

 

The financial incentive appears to be only for container / auto shipping companies. Also participation is voluntary unless said shipping company also uses the port of Los Angeles and then participation in one of these programs is required.  I may be reading that wrong but that is my interpretation, nonetheless.  

 

I have no problem with Princess participating in this program  ... I actually commend them and it will go towards repairing their reputation after they were fined for their apparent disregard of the environment earlier this year.  

I hope they inform all affected passengers of the changes sooner rather than later.  

 

Thanks to the OP for posting this ... at least now we have a head's up on what to look for.  

 

[brisalta]

26 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

I sail in October out of SF and haven't received any notification from Princess as of yet.  Nor have I seen any change in the times of sailing or arrival from and into the port on the itinerary.  

Anyway, I find this interesting prompting me to do a little research and found this.  

 

https://www.ourair.org/wp-content/uploads/2019-Attachment-B-LOU-and-Sign-Up-Form.pdf

 

This appears to be based on #4 under the Legislative Counsel's Digest in of California SB-69:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200SB69

 

The financial incentive appears to be only for container / auto shipping companies. Also participation is voluntary unless said shipping company also uses the port of Los Angeles and then participation in one of these programs is required.  I may be reading that wrong but that is my interpretation, nonetheless.  

 

I have no problem with Princess participating in this program  ... I actually commend them and it will go towards repairing their reputation after they were fined for their apparent disregard of the environment earlier this year.  

I hope they inform all affected passengers of the changes sooner rather than later.  

 

Thanks to the OP for posting this ... at least now we have a head's up on what to look for.  

 

 

That bill still needs to work its way through the California Assembly.

Edited September 2, 2019 by brisalta

[Cruise Raider]

3 minutes ago, brisalta said:

 

That bill still needs to work its way through the state assembly.

 

Yes, I see it is going through revisions as recently as mid-July.  I didn't read the whole bill but I think the program in the first link is based on that section in the state bill, nonetheless.  

[brisalta]

2 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

 

Yes, I see it is going through revisions as recently as mid-July.  I didn't read the whole bill but I think the program in the first link is based on that section in the state bill, nonetheless.  

 

I suspect you are incorrect!.

It is more likely due to what was in #30

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2692352-change-in-debarkation-in-la-due-to-reduced-speeds-to-protect-marine-life/?do=findComment&comment=58266913

[Cruise Raider]

5 minutes ago, brisalta said:

 

I suspect you are incorrect!.

It is more likely due to what was in #30

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2692352-change-in-debarkation-in-la-due-to-reduced-speeds-to-protect-marine-life/?do=findComment&comment=58266913

 

No ... in reading the first link, it references this bill. 

For more information on the VSR program, including a promotional film titled: “Protecting Blue Whales and Blue Skies,” please visit https://www.ourair.org/air-pollution-marine-shipping/.

 

#4 This bill would require the state board, in coordination with affected air districts along the coast and in consultation with the federal Office of National Marine Sanctuaries and the United States Navy, to develop and implement a voluntary vessel speed reduction incentive program for the Santa Barbara Channel and San Francisco Bay area regions to reduce air pollution, the risk of fatal vessel strikes on whales, and harmful underwater acoustic impacts. The bill would require the state board to implement the program by May 1, 2021, and would require the state board to submit a report to the Legislature by December 31, 2022, regarding the implementation of the program. By adding to the duties of air districts, the bill would impose a state-mandated local program.