Norway Fjord Cruise Planning Q&A - Vol. 2

[Host Bonjour]

Hello everyone,

 

In an effort to optimize this wonderful topic and make it easy to newcomers and veterans alike for searching (before a post, you may find your answer!) and reading, now that we are seventeen incredible pages in, it seemed like a great time to start up a new edition of Cruise Critix member hallasm's successful, helpful fjord themed planning tool. 

 

Hallasm created an incredibly helpful resource here on our Northern European board, and all who have contributed questions and answers to help build it into the powerhouse that is has become have proven, as always, what the power of the CC community is all about.

 

I'll embed the original version of the topic in here but also, that topic will remain on the board, but it will be closed to new posts. You can always return to read it for reference at any time. 

 

At this point, I'll turn it over to hallasm, with great thanks, to create a lead post that reflects the latest information, itineraries, highlights, ecological impact plans, seasonal matters, or as they'd say on a certain trivia game, potpourri (or, miscellaneous to folks who don't do trivia!)

 

Enjoy your planning and sharing. 🙂

 

[kaisatsu]

Out of curiosity, how does splitting all the information between two threads make it easier to find? Does the search function have a page limit for threads in the query API?

 

Also, could you explain how to get the quote function to cross-post a follow up from that thread into this one? I assume that will be needed for follow-up questions or to otherwise refer back to earlier information that has been shared.

[Host Bonjour]

11 hours ago, kaisatsu said:

Out of curiosity, how does splitting all the information between two threads make it easier to find? Does the search function have a page limit for threads in the query API?

 

 

Application Programming Interface? I don't believe that is the issue here, no.

 

A number of people post stating that they have trouble using the search function, period. Whether it's a matter of using the right search terms or maybe simply not even wanting to do a search, or that they tried and still didn't find an answer, or not knowing how to do it (I see the last one often!) Some people aren't sure if they are asking on the correct board. Making it easier (fewer pages, twenty pages, about twenty posts per page, it adds up) to read through topics is more efficient to find an answer, especially if one is new to the board and searching for an answer - especially with specific details, the ship or itinerary, date/season - and it helps people who aren't as familiar with the tools to navigate the boards. Our aim is to make the community accessible and easy to work with for everyone. 

 

Not sure if the quote function will operate cross topic, I can ask admin to check with the vendor but copy/paste ought to suffice. I use it throughout our site to reference content from other areas in posts and have no problem whatsoever. I understand that it doesn't help as much with regard to a direct reply but, if you can @ the person you mean to reply to in the new thread, and they will be notified. Using the @ symbol in your post immediately brings up a list of suggested profile names alphabetically close to that profile, and so it's likely you will easily be able to tag the member you wish to reply to. For example, if I add kais, and type the @ sign, a drop down list appears with kaisatsu on it for me to click on which will add @kaisatsu right into the text. I think this will solve the quote issue that may come up in regards to any outstanding conversations from the previous topic.

 

I get that it's a bit of an inconvenience at first, but if you check around (Danish Viking's wonderful Copenhagen 2017, '18, '19 threads right on this board! Spain, Italy have similar new versions of old threads.) they appear to be successful and efficient. 

 

Finally, keeping them from getting too voluminous is a way to keep them spam or troll free. While we have advanced filters and humans in place to sort them out, these types of multi-page threads attract the occasional ne'er do well attempting to sell or promote something to a big audience and also knowing they might not be detected so swiftly embedded within multiple pages and posts.

 

Please keep in mind that every member has the ability to report a post any time they see something that appears to be in violation of Cruise Critic's guidelines. This speeds up the process of getting a post reviewed by a member of staff, and having that post removed, if necessary. We know where and when offenses are likely to be but we can't catch everything all the time; if you see something, please use the report function and let us know.

 

I hope having the original topic embedded in here will make things easier until this topic, before long, is running on its own steam. Sometimes when I am cross-referencing another topic I simply open it in another tab in my browser; I agree it's probably not the most efficient but until browsers put a browser window inside an open page, that's more or less where we are. Using tabs isn't so bad. 

 

Thanks to all for making this such a hit topic on this board and for weathering the change through a fresh new edition of the fjords planning, we know YOU are what makes things great here and keeps it amazing. 

[just_dont]

There is a lot of very helpful information in the first thread, and it's a shame it's been closed.
Perhaps it could be made a sticky, especially since CC now only displays the 10 most recent threads when using the Tapatalk app.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[lydnsyd]

Need advice please Re FLAM

We quite fancy doing the boat trip to Naeroyfjord & return by bus.   My only concern is timing. Our ship docks at 9am & departs at 4pm & I'm guessing all on board by 3.30 latest. We will have missed the 1st two sailings so it will have to be the 11am sailing. The boat/bus trip is quoted as taking 3.5hrs so by my calculations we won't get back to Flam until 2.30 pm - that is if all goes to schedule!

I'm a bit of a worrier - do you think this itinerary is doable --- it's a long swim to our next port Stavanger.

Thanks

[hallasm]

3 hours ago, lydnsyd said:

The boat/bus trip is quoted as taking 3.5hrs so by my calculations we won't get back to Flam until 2.30 pm - that is if all goes to schedule!

The sailing at 11am from Flåm to Gudevangen is two hours - the drive from Gudvangen to Flåm is 20 minutes. I have not looked at bus or shuttle schedule but I’m pretty sure that you’ll be back no later than 2:30 pm - I think the 3,5 hours is a maximum - The services are very reliable and are normally on schedule - even with a delay you’ll make the ship avoiding the long swim to Stavanger.

[CruisingAlong4Now]

Many of the cruise lines are showing 2020 cruises to the Norwegian fjords.  However, Crystal has recently cancelled their cruising of the fjords, presumably because of their parliament's decision regarding emissions. https://www.dnvgl.com/expert-story/maritime-impact/Norway-challenges-the-cruise-industry-to-operate-emission-free.html?utm_campaign=MA_19Q1_ART_Cru_109_Environmental+restrictions+Norwegian+fjords&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua

 

Any information on other cruise lines changes of itinerary?

[kaisatsu]

21 hours ago, CruisingAlong4Now said:

Many of the cruise lines are showing 2020 cruises to the Norwegian fjords.  However, Crystal has recently cancelled their cruising of the fjords, presumably because of their parliament's decision regarding emissions. https://www.dnvgl.com/expert-story/maritime-impact/Norway-challenges-the-cruise-industry-to-operate-emission-free.html?utm_campaign=MA_19Q1_ART_Cru_109_Environmental+restrictions+Norwegian+fjords&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua

 

Any information on other cruise lines changes of itinerary?

In the original thread, there were several posts about cruiselines canceling Flåm and replacing it with Skjolden. The restrictions are staged, so the first round, which goes into effect next year, calls for higher standards when visiting the heritage fjords (i.e. Flåm/Gudvangen and Hellesylt/Geiranger).

 

I suspect we will see fewer itineraries including these ports in future, and new port cancellations for 2021 and beyond.

 

Honestly, I find it a bit disingenuous that the cruiselines sold itineraries with the canceled ports, even though these changes were clearly in the works. There was very little chance that the laws regulating the new standards would not pass.

[CruisingAlong4Now]

thank you kaisatsu for providing additional information about the staging.  I'm looking at 2020 and am concerned that I will book a cruise only to find that the fjord visits will be aborted.  I agree that selling these cruises knowing that the ports will have to be changed due to regulatory and operational considerations is showing little regard for their customers.

 

[kaisatsu]

On 10/13/2019 at 12:20 AM, CruisingAlong4Now said:

thank you kaisatsu for providing additional information about the staging.  I'm looking at 2020 and am concerned that I will book a cruise only to find that the fjord visits will be aborted.  I agree that selling these cruises knowing that the ports will have to be changed due to regulatory and operational considerations is showing little regard for their customers.

 

It has been a while since I read the details, and it appears they apply only to the UNESCO-listed heritage fjords. That means that ports other than Flåm, Geiranger, Hellesylt, and Gudvangen should be largely unaffected. However, it is unlikely that many ships will be able to visit these ports beyond 2022 or 2025 when the next levels of restrictions come into affect. The industry feedback was from before the regulations were passed, and we have mostly seen the cruiselines replacing the UNESCO-listed fjords with other fjord port calls (Norway has a lot of fjords, but only two are listed as UNESCO heritage sites).

 

It will be interesting to see what the new 2021 itineraries look like when they come out. I've already noticed a change in the past year with fewer itineraries including the restricted ports, and I would expect to see them even less. Hopefully, the cruiselines won't pull the same bait-and-switch now that the regulations have passed, and will instead choose alternative fjord ports. I'm curious to see if any pull out of the area entirely. (Over the years, I've noticed some of the cruiselines have dropped Norway for a season or more, but there are still plenty of other options.)

 

 

There's a fairly comprehensive coverage of the requirements here, including input from the cruise industry. It can be pretty disheartening to read just how lax the existing environmental regulations on cruising are (especially related to sewage dumping).

 

A few useful excerpts:

"The new rules include general amendments to the sewage provisions of sections 9 and 10 of the Environmental Safety Regulations and special provisions for the world heritage fjords. We lay down the same sulphur requirements as in emission control areas (ECAs) for the entire world heritage area, stricter requirements for NOx emissions, prohibition against the discharge of sewage and grey water, requirement for an environmental instruction and prohibition against incineration of waste on board ships in the world heritage fjords."

 

 

"The new provision is based on the tiers set out in MARPOL Annex VI regulation 13, and the NMA states that the requirements be phased in as follows, regardless of year of construction: 

• Tier I requirements to be satisfied within 1 January 2020 

• Tier II requirements to be satisfied within 1 January 2022

• Tier III requirements to be satisfied within 1 January 2025."

 

"The cruise industry suggests that the investment costs related to adapting ships not currently satisfying the requirements are high, especially for adaptation to Tier III. The value of adapting to Tier II is also limited since the Tier III requirement will enter into force only five years later. Based on these assessments, and the fact that each of the cruise ships visits the world heritage fjords a limited amount of times per year, there is reason to believe that the requirements for max. NOx emissions will have little triggering effect on NOx reducing adaptations of the ships, which would not have taken place in the null alternative. This is supported by the fact that several industry players have commented that it is not very likely that they will invest in larger conversions of ships or engine to adapt to individual destinations. Based on this, we believe that the cruise companies likely response will be to partly reemploy vessels in their own fleet, partly visit other Norwegian fjords and partly redirect the cruise to a destination in another country."

[Coral]

On 10/12/2019 at 6:02 AM, kaisatsu said:

In the original thread, there were several posts about cruiselines canceling Flåm and replacing it with Skjolden. The restrictions are staged, so the first round, which goes into effect next year, calls for higher standards when visiting the heritage fjords (i.e. Flåm/Gudvangen and Hellesylt/Geiranger).

 

I was in Skjolden last year. I have to say that they don't have the infrastructure for tours for large cruise ships.

[Host Bonjour]

On 10/6/2019 at 2:33 PM, just_dont said:

There is a lot of very helpful information in the first thread, and it's a shame it's been closed.
Perhaps it could be made a sticky, especially since CC now only displays the 10 most recent threads when using the Tapatalk app.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

 

HI!

 

The original thread is linked up above in the first post that I wrote to begin this new topic, please scroll through to find a link to the original topic so that you can refer back to the original at any time when visiting this new version of the topic.

 

Any time this thread is visited (I expect it will be frequent, just as the previous topic was!) and remains visible in your new posts, the original topic will immediately be available to you in the very first post, should you wish to access it. One click and you're there! We didn't want you to have to search for the original version, so keeping it within this new edition seemed to make the most sense. 

 

Again, I do apologize for any inconvenience that creating the new edition has created. Hopefully before long, this new version of the wonderful topic will be as famous and visited as the original has been for so many years. Thanks for your patience and understanding during the crossover period. 

 

If anyone feels inclined to do so, feel free to post a link to the old topic within any post you make here in this new thread, just like this: 

 

Thanks everyone!! 🙂 

 

 

[gaudi1234]

Hello,

Will be in Flam from 8-6pm June 30th 2020. Will be docked and only ship in town (HAL Nieuw Statendam)

 

Am looking into doing Norway in nutshell as an option #1 (cruise to gudvangen, bus to voss, train to myrdal, train to flam)

 

Another option (#2) would be to do the Naeroyfjord cruise from Flam to Gudvangen (9-11h) and instead of continuing to Stalheim and Voss (nutshell route), to take the shuttle bus back to Flam (11:30-11:50), then do the bus tour to the Stegastein lookout (12:30-2:05pm) and finish with the flam train return to Myrdal and back (leaves flam at 2:50pm and arrives back in Flam at 5pm)

 

Doing option #2, we would miss the bus trip to Stalheim  and Voss and the train between Voss and Myrdal, but would add the Stegastein viewpoint.

 

Which should we choose? Is stegastein viewpoint better? or is the stalheim road from gudvangen to voss and the train from voss to myrdal better?

 

Thanks a lot for your input and insight!!

[hallasm]

See answers to question In post #13 here (another topic with same question)

 

[ski ww]

On 11/24/2019 at 11:45 PM, gaudi1234 said:

Hello,

Will be in Flam from 8-6pm June 30th 2020. Will be docked and only ship in town (HAL Nieuw Statendam)

 

Am looking into doing Norway in nutshell as an option #1 (cruise to gudvangen, bus to voss, train to myrdal, train to flam)

 

Another option (#2) would be to do the Naeroyfjord cruise from Flam to Gudvangen (9-11h) and instead of continuing to Stalheim and Voss (nutshell route), to take the shuttle bus back to Flam (11:30-11:50), then do the bus tour to the Stegastein lookout (12:30-2:05pm) and finish with the flam train return to Myrdal and back (leaves flam at 2:50pm and arrives back in Flam at 5pm)

 

Doing option #2, we would miss the bus trip to Stalheim  and Voss and the train between Voss and Myrdal, but would add the Stegastein viewpoint.

 

Which should we choose? Is stegastein viewpoint better? or is the stalheim road from gudvangen to voss and the train from voss to myrdal better?

 

Thanks a lot for your input and insight!!

Are you sure that you're still docking in Flam?? We're on the Nieuw Statendam doing this cruise 5 July 2020 and HAL sent a notification that Flam was cancelled going to Skjolden instead.

[just_dont]

Are you sure that you're still docking in Flam?? We're on the Nieuw Statendam doing this cruise 5 July 2020 and HAL sent a notification that Flam was cancelled going to Skjolden instead.

It's really disappointing how cruise lines are handling the new regulations. They've known for quite some time whether or not their ships would be allowed, but they continued advertising and selling cruises including those ports (Flåm and Geiranger), and are only notifying people after they've booked and planned their trips, and when it's pretty much too late to book on another line that will still be able to enter those fjords.
I feel very fortunate that I was able to see both of those fjords and ports this past June. While I applaud Norway's efforts to protect those fjords, it's sad that the result is that fewer people will be able to enjoy their beauty.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[gaudi1234]

7 hours ago, ski ww said:

Are you sure that you're still docking in Flam?? We're on the Nieuw Statendam doing this cruise 5 July 2020 and HAL sent a notification that Flam was cancelled going to Skjolden instead.

For the time being, yes. On the HAL website, The Viking Sagas and Norse legends itineraries on the nieuw statendam (14 day itineraries that are 2 7 day back to back and do not go to the northern part of norway) in may, june, july are still sheduled to go to Flam and Geiranger. The august itineray goes to flam but not geiranger and alesund (goes to olden and andalsnes instead). I do not know if it was like that from the start in august or if there was a change in the itinerary.

 

On the flam port docking schedule, we are still also listed as docked there.

 

It seems at the moment it is the itineraries that go to northern norway and the ones on the smaller HAL ships that have been changed.

[hallasm]

On 11/25/2019 at 5:45 AM, gaudi1234 said:

Will be in Flam from 8-6pm June 30th 2020. Will be docked and only ship in town (HAL Nieuw Statendam)

 

7 hours ago, ski ww said:

Are you sure that you're still docking in Flam??

Nieuw Statendam Is scheduled for Flåm June 30, 2020 - she is build in 2017 and should be able to sail the fjords through 2025. But likely not in 2026. 

[Sallyandtex]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 6:07 AM, gaudi1234 said:

For the time being, yes. On the HAL website, The Viking Sagas and Norse legends itineraries on the nieuw statendam (14 day itineraries that are 2 7 day back to back and do not go to the northern part of norway) in may, june, july are still sheduled to go to Flam and Geiranger. The august itineray goes to flam but not geiranger and alesund (goes to olden and andalsnes instead). I do not know if it was like that from the start in august or if there was a change in the itinerary.

 

On the flam port docking schedule, we are still also listed as docked there.

 

It seems at the moment it is the itineraries that go to northern norway and the ones on the smaller HAL ships that have been changed.

I am looking at some different itineraries still debating Fjords in depth, or up to the North Cape.

I was looking at Princess or HAL and am concerned that they might drop Flam and Geiranger after I book and perhaps not replace them.

There is a lot of info from the article about regulations, but I was wondering if anyone has a link for port info I can check the dates to make sure each boat is still scheduled there?

 

[hallasm]

3 hours ago, Sallyandtex said:

There is a lot of info from the article about regulations, but I was wondering if anyone has a link for port info I can check the dates to make sure each boat is still scheduled

Link to Flåm Port  and Geiranger port (scroll down to page end)

[Sallyandtex]

13 minutes ago, hallasm said:

Link to Flåm Port  and Geiranger port (scroll down to page end)

Thanks

[Sallyandtex]

28 minutes ago, Sallyandtex said:

Thanks

I had a look, very good to have that insight!

I am wondering eg Flam, I notice the ship (3000pax) I was considering there is another ship in on the same day.

Is the port and activities big enough to absorb all those passengers?

(I really love the itinerary I picked but am concerned about the huge numbers on board and also in addition to another ship when  in port).

I was thinking maybe to try and get on alternative cruise/dates if that is the case as I have been to smallish townships on big cruises before and it was a struggle/unenjoyable when there was more than 1 in port.

[just_dont]

 

 

 

I had a look, very good to have that insight!

I am wondering eg Flam, I notice the ship (3000pax) I was considering there is another ship in on the same day.

Is the port and activities big enough to absorb all those passengers?

 

It does get crowded in Geiranger with multiple ships in port. I was there this past June on Viking (around 900 pax) and there was a small Ponant ship (another couple hundred?) and a very large MSC ship (around 3000+?).

If you're planning DIY activities, you should pre-book online, because things will sell out quickly once the ships start to unload. And you'll have to deal with lines.

Flåm is even smaller, and is crowded with just one large ship in port. Plus you'll have additional people arriving by train and tour busses. Same advice about pre-booking activities.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[hallasm]

Always pre-book activities for Geiranger and Flåm - as said by @just_dont - activities does selv out - In particular the Flåm train does sell out very fast In the morning .

[Sallyandtex]

6 hours ago, just_dont said:

 

 

 

 

 

It does get crowded in Geiranger with multiple ships in port. I was there this past June on Viking (around 900 pax) and there was a small Ponant ship (another couple hundred?) and a very large MSC ship (around 3000+?).

If you're planning DIY activities, you should pre-book online, because things will sell out quickly once the ships start to unload. And you'll have to deal with lines.

Flåm is even smaller, and is crowded with just one large ship in port. Plus you'll have additional people arriving by train and tour busses. Same advice about pre-booking activities.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Thanks again, all great tips. 

If my budget allowed I would  choose a small ship., being as it is with a large ship I think if I can research the numbers in port it would makea big difference to the experience and expectations. 

My other worry about  choosing this cruise is the tendering at Lofoten. I have had bad experiences where we waited hours to go ashore and only got 1/2 day.