Water

[zqvol]

On 10/23/2019 at 2:35 PM, maggieq said:

So shame on me for not researching the beverage packages we have for our 11/2 Encore cruise.  I assumed bottled water would be included as it has been on our Rccl and celebrity cruises.  Can someone share a drink menu or menu where they would have bottled water prices?  Also, is there a place to get cups of water to bring back to our room?  For me, a bottle of water at the gym and in the room for the nighttime is key.  

 

Appreciate your feedback. 

 

Thanks!

 

You can always take a water bottle on and  most bars will fill it for you, or you can fill it at the buffet. Bottled water (Aquifina) is about $6 per bottle including tip etc. Sparkling water is about $7 with everything included.

[Zippeedee]

3 minutes ago, zqvol said:

 

You can always take a water bottle on and  most bars will fill it for you, or you can fill it at the buffet. Bottled water (Aquifina) is about $6 per bottle including tip etc. Sparkling water is about $7 with everything included.

There won't be bottled water on the Encore. Only the new boxed water. No more Aquafina. Actual spring water instead!

[hallux]

Are we really that pedantic?  "bottled water" can also be a general term for water in a container sealed with a screw cap, which has not come from a source other than the faucet.

[Zippeedee]

5 minutes ago, hallux said:

Are we really that pedantic?  "bottled water" can also be a general term for water in a container sealed with a screw cap, which has not come from a source other than the faucet.

The point was that it is no longer Aquafina. No more Atlanta tap water.

 

[AmazedByCruising]

On 10/23/2019 at 8:58 PM, GA Dave said:

The water on the ship is as good if not better than any bottled water you can find. 

 

Health wise, sure.

But I don't have the acquired taste of water that has been treated with chlorine. It immediately reminds me of swimming pools and freshly cleaned toilets.  

 

[PortFees45]

.

Edited October 24, 2019 by PortFees45

[GA Dave]

16 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

Health wise, sure.

But I don't have the acquired taste of water that has been treated with chlorine. It immediately reminds me of swimming pools and freshly cleaned toilets.  

 

Actually, based on the process they use, there is no added chlorine in the water on ships.  There is probably more chlorine and chlorides in most city waters than there is on cruise ships.

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by GA Dave

[AmazedByCruising]

9 minutes ago, GA Dave said:

Actually, based on the process they use, there is no added chlorine in the water on ships.  There is probably more chlorine and chlorides in most city waters than there is on cruise ships.

 

Chlorine is certainly added. And while there might be more chlorine in most municipal water; there is none in Holland. 

 

 

[fshagan]

On 10/24/2019 at 2:47 PM, hallux said:

Are we really that pedantic?  "bottled water" can also be a general term for water in a container sealed with a screw cap, which has not come from a source other than the faucet.

 

The official name of the container for the new water is "Tetra Top® carton bottle" so it's both a carton and a bottle.

[BirdTravels]

On 10/25/2019 at 10:26 AM, GA Dave said:

Actually, based on the process they use, there is no added chlorine in the water on ships.  There is probably more chlorine and chlorides in most city waters than there is on cruise ships.

As of 2018 (which is the latest data provided by NCL), they still bunker 15% of their water. So in some instances, the water on the cruise ships is the city water. When the Sky was doing 3- and 4-night cruises, she bunkered 100% of her water and never ran her desalinization plant. 

 

 

Water Conservation & Management

Onboard Production

Onboard our vessels, water is primarily used by our guests and crew in their staterooms for showers, bathtubs and sinks but is also used for galleys, laundry, pools, whirlpools, spas and cleaning public spaces. We have focused our efforts on increasing water production on board with sophisticated plants that use seawater as the source, which reduces the need for the bunkering of fresh water. This is particularly important in countries where fresh water is limited and best reserved for local communities.

Figures are based on Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings 2018 water production data.

• Reverse Osmosis (RO) produces fresh and technical water from seawater using high-pressure pumps and sophisticated water filters and treatment components.
• Evaporators produce fresh water from seawater utilizing heat sources such as Exhaust Gas Boilers, Oil Fired Boilers or Wasted Heat recovered from the main engine high-temperature cooling system.
• Bunkered Water is potable water acquired in port for use on board.

 

 

[chengkp75]

On 10/25/2019 at 2:26 PM, GA Dave said:

Actually, based on the process they use, there is no added chlorine in the water on ships.  There is probably more chlorine and chlorides in most city waters than there is on cruise ships.

 

Actually, a lot of misinformation here.  There definitely is chlorine added to cruise ship water, as required by the USPH, Europe's ShipSan and other sanitation regulations.  Unlike municipal water supplies where chlorination is done at the processing plant, and the water then sits in the underground pipes until needed, where the chlorine dissipates naturally, on a ship the water is continually circulated from the storage tanks, around the ship, and that which is not used is returned to the storage tanks.  During this circulation, the water is monitored for residual chlorine content "at the furthest location from the injection point" (typically on the bridge), and there must be 0.5ppm chlorine at that furthest point, and that monitor will adjust the chlorine injection level to maintain that residual.  So, depending on where your cabin is in relation to where the main potable water riser pipes come up from the engine room, the chlorine content at your sink may be slightly higher than 0.5ppm, but it will never be lower, anywhere on the ship.

 

In addition to the chlorine added during circulation, all water produced onboard ship, whether by desalinization or distillation, must be chlorinated to 2ppm before it goes into the storage tanks.  Similarly, all water bunkered in port must be chlorinated to 2ppm prior to going into the tanks.

 

Now, as for the article you post, "desalinizing" is different from what they are describing.  The process of "collecting steam" from sea water is "distillation" not desalinization.  Desalinization does not involve heating the water, it uses permeable filter media to "strain" the salt and other contaminants from the sea water.  And the plant they show in the picture is of a reverse osmosis treatment plant, not a distillation plant.

 

Ships are allowed to send gray water (sink and shower, galley and laundry drains) through reverse osmosis filters, but this water cannot be used for potable water, it is used for "technical" water, like in the engine room, or in the garbage disposal system.

 

Bird's graphic represents the fleet average, the amount of water bunkered from port depends on the itinerary, as the ship cannot produce water when within 12 miles of shore, so port intensive itineraries, like the POA in Hawaii, will bunker over 70% of the water needed, while a typical Caribbean cruise is more like the 15%.

[chengkp75]

On 10/25/2019 at 2:36 PM, AmazedByCruising said:

Chlorine is certainly added. And while there might be more chlorine in most municipal water; there is none in Holland. 

However, the Dutch use UV sterilization (which requires power), and sand filtration and aeration, which require time, to sanitize their water.  It certainly works for Holland, with its particular population and ground water sources, but not sure it would work everywhere.

[SlipperyVic]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

However, the Dutch use UV sterilization (which requires power), and sand filtration and aeration, which require time, to sanitize their water.  It certainly works for Holland, with its particular population and ground water sources, but not sure it would work everywhere.

Lots of places in North America also use UV sterilization in water treatment plants for primary disinfection, but since UV treatment provides no residual protection they are also required to have secondary disinfection which in most cases is chlorination or chloramination which can be measured throughout the system.  

 

I would be very surprised if Holland did not have similar requirements, and if they didn't I know I wouldn't be drinking the water there.

 

 

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, SlipperyVic said:

Lots of places in North America also use UV sterilization in water treatment plants for primary disinfection, but since UV treatment provides no residual protection they are also required to have secondary disinfection which in most cases is chlorination or chloramination which can be measured throughout the system.  

 

I would be very surprised if Holland did not have similar requirements, and if they didn't I know I wouldn't be drinking the water there.

 

 

 

The Dutch method uses aeration to produce aerobic water, which tends to be much more "bio-stable" (doesn't allow biological organisms to grow) than anaerobic water (typical in US and most municipal systems), so the residual sanitizing is not required.  They also have far stricter requirements for type and installation methods of installing potable water piping throughout the country than the US and most countries.  Dutch water quality meets and exceeds all EU water quality standards, without use of any chlorine at all.

 

And, yes, chlorination or chloramination can be measured throughout a system, but is it, and does this measurement drive real time changes in chlorination levels, or is this just periodic testing to determine overall average performance.  I know that my municipal water supply is chlorinated, but at our tap there is no residual.

Edited October 27, 2019 by chengkp75

[SlipperyVic]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

The Dutch method uses aeration to produce aerobic water, which tends to be much more "bio-stable" (doesn't allow biological organisms to grow) than anaerobic water (typical in US and most municipal systems), so the residual sanitizing is not required.  They also have far stricter requirements for type and installation methods of installing potable water piping throughout the country than the US and most countries.  Dutch water quality meets and exceeds all EU water quality standards, without use of any chlorine at all.

 

And, yes, chlorination or chloramination can be measured throughout a system, but is it, and does this measurement drive real time changes in chlorination levels, or is this just periodic testing to determine overall average performance.  I know that my municipal water supply is chlorinated, but at our tap there is no residual.

Municipalities are required to measure chlorine residual along with taking representational baterialogical samples from their water systems daily in Canada. Depending on the type of water system (chlorinated or chloraminated) the system must have a residual of 0.05mg/L free (ppm) or 0.25mg/L total to be considered potable. If the chlorine levels are below the threshold the system is considered adverse and a boil water order is issued and the municipality must take corrective actions, generally flushing or adding a auto flusher to the end of a dead end.

 

Having a zero residual at a tap would be a serious issue here.

 

The requirement for secondary disinfection has nothing to do with the type of treatment used at the plant or the quality of the water,  it is rather about protection in case of watermain break or backflow through a cross connection. I am once again attending the Aquatech trade show in Amsterdam next month, so i will do a little research on their local operations.

[AmazedByCruising]

21 minutes ago, SlipperyVic said:

I am once again attending the Aquatech trade show in Amsterdam next month, so i will do a little research on their local operations.

 

The recipe for drinking water in Amsterdam according to this site: https://www.waternet.nl/ons-water/drinkwater/waar-komt-ons-drinkwater-vandaan/ (not a very scientific site though). The secret ingredient is mostly sand and more than three months preparation time. 

 

* Pump water from a canal.
* Put in in a pond. Add iron chloride and mix thoroughly. This will remove some bacteria and viruses by clumping them together so they sink to the bottom.
* Filter through sand. Bacteria living on the sand will eat chemicals like ammonia.
* Pump the water into dunes. Wait for three months for it to come out by itself. 
* Filter through sand to remove algae.
* Add ozone and mix for at least 15 minutes. Ozone breaks up pesticides, bacteria and viruses.
* Soften the water by adding lye to make the chalk stick to calcite. 
* Filter through carbon with useful bacteria. Add extra oxygen for the bacteria during the summer.
* Filter through sand again. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, SlipperyVic said:

Municipalities are required to measure chlorine residual along with taking representational baterialogical samples from their water systems daily in Canada. Depending on the type of water system (chlorinated or chloraminated) the system must have a residual of 0.05mg/L free (ppm) or 0.25mg/L total to be considered potable. If the chlorine levels are below the threshold the system is considered adverse and a boil water order is issued and the municipality must take corrective actions, generally flushing or adding a auto flusher to the end of a dead end.

 

Having a zero residual at a tap would be a serious issue here.

 

The requirement for secondary disinfection has nothing to do with the type of treatment used at the plant or the quality of the water,  it is rather about protection in case of watermain break or backflow through a cross connection. I am once again attending the Aquatech trade show in Amsterdam next month, so i will do a little research on their local operations.

Holland uses a higher than normal supply pressure, and I believe extensive use of backflow preventers to prevent cross-contamination, and their choice of piping materials leads to fewer water main breaks.

 

And, not disputing whether Canadian standards are good or not (and I think they are), the requirements for even a large metropolitan water system is 4 random locations per month for sampling, and there is an allowance for water systems that do not use surface water (i.e. all water is from an underground spring or well), that does not require any sanitizing process at all.

 

Again, not saying that one system or the other is better, just pointing out why the Dutch model wouldn't work on a ship, and how a ship's system is more closely monitored than municipal systems.

[fshagan]

I think two things are important to remember about ship's water. Even with the chlorination it is probably safer than many municipal water systems because of the consistency of the chlorine level throughout the system. I also think that the ship probably has a lower level of "disinfection by-products" (DBP) in the water. In municipal systems there are often organic compounds from dirt seeping into the lines, tree roots, etc. that won't exist on a ship. When chlorine oxidizes these organic compounds they produce DBP that some think might be carcinogenic (like chloroform and other trihalomethanes). Your local municipal water quality report will have the levels in your water compared to the allowable levels set by the CDC or other agencies. For those who are immune system impaired, or either very young or older, the safe levels set by your municipality may still cause problems. I like to use the https://www.ewg.org data base for stricter levels and recommendations on how to make the tap water safer (filtering, primarily). Here's my city's report:  https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/system.php?pws=CA5610007  The chart on the bottom shows that carbon filtering, like used in bars, buffet and restaurants on the ship, removes these contaminants. 

 

I'm sure the ship also tests for these chemicals, and I suspect they have virtually zero of them due to the nature of their small, closed  loop system that is meticulously maintained. 

[Deeliteful]

😱 I just want a glass of water! 😂

[Gypsygirl100%]

On 10/23/2019 at 6:15 PM, BirdTravels said:

You can have your butler bring you pitchers of water and tea. 

Whenever I have requested pitchers of ice water for my cabin from my stewards, they told me to call room service. Room service then told me (on several NCL ships), that it would be a $7.95 charge for each pitcher. I even talked to a room service manager, and they said the same thing. I do not sail in a suite. I gave up the fight and get a glass of ice water to take back with me to the cabin at night.

[Trimone]

River Thames water in London has passed through 11 bodies... Malvern water is a spring.

We seem to be overloaded with water bottles when arriving on ship, I think it a litre each per day on latitudes ..

[DinaS]

2 hours ago, Gypsygirl100% said:

Whenever I have requested pitchers of ice water for my cabin from my stewards, they told me to call room service. Room service then told me (on several NCL ships), that it would be a $7.95 charge for each pitcher. I even talked to a room service manager, and they said the same thing. I do not sail in a suite. I gave up the fight and get a glass of ice water to take back with me to the cabin at night.

 

You can get an ice bucket, filled with ice, in a regular cabin by request from your cabin steward.   We have done that in regular cabins on every cruise we have been on, including the Escape last  month.  

 

Melting ice = ice water.