Warning to parents of Teens

[time4u2go]

4 hours ago, mayleeman said:

Just a thought, but I would bet that Royal is looking carefully at all of their "who can provide supervision" policies after the tragedy on Freedom of the Seas. That situation has nothing to do directly with this one, but it could well explain why kicking a question up to corporate HQ has resulted in a strict to-the-letter interpretation of a kid-related policy. They might even be figuring out ways to allow them to intervene more easily if they think someone is not providing proper supervision.

 

Companies are always reviewing every procedure and policy when something horrible happens.

Which tragedy on Freedom of the Seas?

[123funcruiser]

41 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Which tragedy on Freedom of the Seas?

 

Probably the one where a grandfather dropped the grandkid from the window of the pooldeck to the pier.

[richstowe]

12 hours ago, RockHoundTX said:

As for those that have stated that it is irresponsible for parents to leave those under 18 on-board because they are too immature, I find that very sad. I was in college living on my own when I was 17 (and had no problem driving half-way across the country by myself when I was 16). My wife left home to attend school across the country from her parents when she was 14. My son will be a sophomore in college next year, so if I can't trust him by now then there is a problem 😉    That being said, the point of my post was not to debate specific to my kids. I just wanted to pass on my experience so that others hopefully won't be shocked if they find themselves in the same situation. 

Fully agree . I'm knew when you posted that you'd get blowback from some . And you have . Never never in any way criticize RC even if you're trying to impart knowledge . Loyal Royals don't like that .  

[Arzeena]

21 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

Under 20? 18 year olds are adults, free to do what they want. Both dd23 and ds21 traveled internationally without their parents under 20, so did I. Cut the strings.

Just because you have very responsible kids, does not mean every kid that age out there is responsible. Some may take advantage of the freedom and some may be taken advantage of.

This is usually up to the parent. What they feel comfortable with doing. And rightfully so, but it will be the parent who will freak out if something happens and will be all set to sue the cruise line.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Arzeena

[mjkacmom]

20 minutes ago, Arzeena said:

Just because you have very responsible kids, does not mean every kid that age out there is responsible. Some may take advantage of the freedom and some may be taken advantage of.

This is usually up to the parent. What they feel comfortable with doing. And rightfully so, but it will be the parent who will freak out if something happens and will be all set to sue the cruise line.

Sue the cruise line? I can’t even give medical decisions for my adult decisions, it is not up to me what decisions they make. At 18, I’m not responsible for them, and at 18 they are free to do what they want, responsible or not. This is why it is so important to allow them independence as the get older, you only have 18 years. Now I’m just here for advice.

[Biker19]

2 hours ago, richstowe said:

Never never in any way criticize RC even if you're trying to impart knowledge

Not sure what child rearing advice has to do with RCI knowledge.

 

Biker, who likes the entertainment in child advice threads.

[DaniDanielle]

👍

[time4u2go]

3 hours ago, 123funcruiser said:

 

Probably the one where a grandfather dropped the grandkid from the window of the pooldeck to the pier.

Not sure what that has to do with this discussion.

[richstowe]

51 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Not sure what child rearing advice has to do with RCI knowledge.

 

Biker, who likes the entertainment in child advice threads.

I agree . Not sure what child rearing advice has to do with OP's original comment or mine but thanks for your comment . 

[kidless]

I think the policy of teens not being left on board  while their legal guardian is in port is a legal issue. Example; If your 15 year old falls and hurts himself on ship medical care can not be given with out consent from the legal guardian. Even Grandpa & Grandpa can not legally give permission. The younger child left in AO you have already signed permission for medical treatment if needed. 
 

Perhaps a solution would be to plan before leaving on cruise and get a Notarized permission form for the adult (Grandparents) that would be on board with the teen to have authorization.  
 

I’d bet money the policy probably stems from an earlier lawsuit where medical treated an unsupervised teen on board without parental permission! 

[pink845]

Royal Caribbean are actually protecting both themselves as well as all young passengers with the above noted and detailed policy. I applaud them for it.  With so many ships being produced, Wonder of the Seas being the next one built and so many passengers and Royal aiming very high for the Family Experience - Get Out there - Enjoy the Thrill, kids and teens should only be left on board if they are part of a supervised activity in their Adventure Ocean or whatever it is now called as all waivers have been signed and RCCL has all their ducks in order.   I recommend RCCL ad a qualifier on the CHECK in menu which we all have to complete as we add our immigration and credit card information on line, to the effect that all children under 18 (are not allowed to debark at cruise ports without a legal guardian nor shall they remain on board alone without said guardians unless they are going to be part and parcel with their kids or teen clubs).    The way I see it, if you want to vacation without your kids, leave them at home.  Otherwise, they should be with you as you leave the ship, never to remain on board, unless in a supervised program.    

 

 

[Domino D]

1 hour ago, kidless said:

I think the policy of teens not being left on board  while their legal guardian is in port is a legal issue. Example; If your 15 year old falls and hurts himself on ship medical care can not be given with out consent from the legal guardian. Even Grandpa & Grandpa can not legally give permission. The younger child left in AO you have already signed permission for medical treatment if needed. 
 

Perhaps a solution would be to plan before leaving on cruise and get a Notarized permission form for the adult (Grandparents) that would be on board with the teen to have authorization.  
 

I’d bet money the policy probably stems from an earlier lawsuit where medical treated an unsupervised teen on board without parental permission! 

I agree that it is legal in nature, but It's simple liability and compliance with rules.  Minors, even 17 year old's can not be held to the terms of the cruise ticket directly, they are bound through their parents or guardians. They are to young  to enter into a contract.  It has much more to do with your child being molested or otherwise endangered, then any consent issues.  If they knowingly let you get off the ship and allow a minor to remain on board, their ability to indemnify themselves via the Cruise Ticket is gone.  

 

I would be surprised to find that in the event of a true medical emergency, the ship staff does not have implied consent, like an ER doctor. A lawsuit would most likely be for medical malpractice or maybe assault I would guess, lack of consent would be near impossible pull off. 

 

I'm not 100% sure that a notarized form would help.  This involves a private companies policy.  You can bring all the notarized forms in the world, Hertz is not renting a car to your 18 year old, unless they work for a corporate account holder who guarantees the car.

[Domino D]

1 hour ago, pink845 said:

Royal Caribbean are actually protecting both themselves as well as all young passengers with the above noted and detailed policy. I applaud them for it.  With so many ships being produced, Wonder of the Seas being the next one built and so many passengers and Royal aiming very high for the Family Experience - Get Out there - Enjoy the Thrill, kids and teens should only be left on board if they are part of a supervised activity in their Adventure Ocean or whatever it is now called as all waivers have been signed and RCCL has all their ducks in order.   I recommend RCCL ad a qualifier on the CHECK in menu which we all have to complete as we add our immigration and credit card information on line, to the effect that all children under 18 (are not allowed to debark at cruise ports without a legal guardian nor shall they remain on board alone without said guardians unless they are going to be part and parcel with their kids or teen clubs).    The way I see it, if you want to vacation without your kids, leave them at home.  Otherwise, they should be with you as you leave the ship, never to remain on board, unless in a supervised program.    

 

 

The existing Cruise Ticket actually has the needed language.  The OP's issue was with some vagueness in the language, and the fact that it is not always enforced.  

[HOSKI]

I think the policy is handled differently on different ships.  May on the Empress my 13 year old could not return to the ship without a family member over 18 even though it was walk on.  During that cruise tons of kids were left without their parents as the parents didn't want to pay the Cuba visa fee for the kids.  My daughter complained all her friends were staying on while parents went off.  No one on the ship batted an eye about all the kids on their own.

Last week on the Anthem when I put down my 13 year old to sign out her younger sister AO said it was fine on sea days but on port days an adult would have to sign her out.  This indicates that they thought the 13 year old may be on the ship without us.  We took them both off one day and left the 13 year old the other day. 

On all port days on both cruises there were groups of teens/tweens on the ship without parents and plenty of staff around not saying anything about it. 

[gaylemh]

On 10/25/2019 at 8:01 PM, RockHoundTX said:

Yes. This is exactly the situation. You can leave your 10YO on the ship in AO but the 15YO has to be off the ship if the parents are. This is exactly why I found it so odd as well and made sure that this is truly what the policy meant (asked this exact question many times). What I posted in the origin post was the exact cut-n-paste from the e-mail from the office of the AVP of RCI Guest Services. While there is no problem with an "approved signer" such as yourself signing a child out on Sea days, I don't think you are technically allowed to sign them out on a Port day (but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen all the time).   

 

Funny enough, during the call with the RCI Director of Guest Services (reports directly to the AVP?), she originally categorically stated that "No minor is allowed to stay on the ship if under 18 without parents". She then gave the exact excuse of "What happens if you miss the ship if your kids are in AO?". I then told her I was absolutely certain she was wrong about this. She stated that she had been with RCI corporate for 9 years, had cruised several times with her minor daughter, and knew the rules. About 10 minutes later in the conversation she read me the exact policy where it CLEARLY stated that it is was acceptable for those from the age of 3-11 to be in AO when the parents on on-shore. She paused for a second and then stated "Oh. It looks like you are right.". So here is an example of a long-time RCI employee that absolutely should have known the rules that didn't.

 

As for those that have stated that it is irresponsible for parents to leave those under 18 on-board because they are too immature, I find that very sad. I was in college living on my own when I was 17 (and had no problem driving half-way across the country by myself when I was 16). My wife left home to attend school across the country from her parents when she was 14. My son will be a sophomore in college next year, so if I can't trust him by now then there is a problem 😉    That being said, the point of my post was not to debate specific to my kids. I just wanted to pass on my experience so that others hopefully won't be shocked if they find themselves in the same situation. 

  

Did your son tell the people in AO that he was left on board with grandparents or family friends, or did he just say his parents weren't on board and he was alone? I would think if they paged the grandparents/family friends, they would have let him go with them.

[legaljen1969]

On 10/25/2019 at 8:30 PM, rimmit said:

 

I also was in college at 17, and I agree that all the judgement being given is pretty sad.

 

When I was a teenager in many ports after an excursion my parents would spent the last hour the ship was in port looking at the gift shops.  My brother and I typically just took the shuttle from the center of town back to the ship or just walked back to the ship on our own (this was not just the Caribbean, but all around the world).  No one had a second thought about it back in the 90s.  In this day and age a parent gets judged immediately as being uncaring, selfish, and irresponsible.  And people wonder why the upcoming generation wilts in the workplace any time they are criticized.   They have had their hands held practically their whole life.  

 

As parent of a 4 and 8 year old myself, parenting is totally different now than it was in the 80s and 90s.   Parents can’t do anything these days without criticism or shaming.  

You are so right.  There is so much judgment.  Parents get the police called on them for letting their children play outside in their own front yard without a parent looking on sometimes.  Never mind that mama may be looking on from inside the house or dad may be working on the car and just ran in the garage to pick up a tool.  People are so judgmental and awful.  And the worst part is how free people feel to judge others. 

 

[legaljen1969]

On 10/25/2019 at 8:36 PM, Domino D said:

I would go with "I'm sorry, I don't know the exact whereabouts of my parents at this time.  I was headed back to my cabin, as that's where we are meeting up."

Great response.  I can't imagine they would push the issue with this response.  For all they know Mom and Dad are back on board and little sis wants to stay in AO until later.  

Okay, obviously if they checked into the situation to see if Mom and Dad had checked back in, they would know if they were still off the ship- but I would have to think they wouldn't ask too many questions. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by legaljen1969
Need to add something.

[slyster]

I can understand the frustration.  There should be specific documentation left in a family's cabin if they are traveling with teens.  Something that lists the rules, curfews.  That way it doesn't come as a surprise when after several cruises, your teenager is left on board without adult supervision and made to feel like he did something wrong.  MOST parents will follow the rules if they know what they are.  

 

This also reminds me of how one staff member enforces policy and others do not.  I work in a federal government facility and everyone is supposed to put their belongings through the xray machines.  However, many don't and they "show" their bag to a guard.  Well, there's one guard who enforces the rule and everyone thinks he is a jerk.  "No one else makes me do it". 

[Domino D]

11 hours ago, legaljen1969 said:

Great response.  I can't imagine they would push the issue with this response.  For all they know Mom and Dad are back on board and little sis wants to stay in AO until later.  

Okay, obviously if they checked into the situation to see if Mom and Dad had checked back in, they would know if they were still off the ship- but I would have to think they wouldn't ask too many questions. 

Sad day when your kids start driving, go to college, or begin working full time and you have to go from "Always be honest" to the adult world reality of "Answer only what is asked, don't add details, and nothing is ever 100% for sure."

[legaljen1969]

36 minutes ago, Domino D said:

Sad day when your kids start driving, go to college, or begin working full time and you have to go from "Always be honest" to the adult world reality of "Answer only what is asked, don't add details, and nothing is ever 100% for sure."

You are so right.  The world seems a much more complicated place than when I grew up.  Sometimes you have to be "creative" in  your truth. 

[legaljen1969]

53 minutes ago, slyster said:

I can understand the frustration.  There should be specific documentation left in a family's cabin if they are traveling with teens.  Something that lists the rules, curfews.  That way it doesn't come as a surprise when after several cruises, your teenager is left on board without adult supervision and made to feel like he did something wrong.  MOST parents will follow the rules if they know what they are.  

 

This also reminds me of how one staff member enforces policy and others do not.  I work in a federal government facility and everyone is supposed to put their belongings through the xray machines.  However, many don't and they "show" their bag to a guard.  Well, there's one guard who enforces the rule and everyone thinks he is a jerk.  "No one else makes me do it". 

That's the thing though, I think there were other adults in the party who were onboard so he was not completely without adult supervision.  The adults just weren't his "parents."

 

As to the guard who enforces the rule, good for him. 

[slyster]

18 minutes ago, legaljen1969 said:

That's the thing though, I think there were other adults in the party who were onboard so he was not completely without adult supervision.  The adults just weren't his "parents."

 

As to the guard who enforces the rule, good for him. 

My point is more about the rule that many parents may not know about, a rule that is not strictly enforced.  It's unfortunate what happened to this teen.  IF he had known the rule, he could have said my parents are off the ship, but I am here with so and so who are adults.  

 

Some may say well it's in the cruise contract.  I just think it would be helpful for parents to have that information in their stateroom upon arrival so if it's enforced, it's already in the stateroom.  There is a rule and RC has the right to enforce it.  The thing that gets me is that a lot of times they don't enforce the guidelines/rules. It can be frustrating when a rule isn't enforced and then when it is, "well it IS a rule".  Who is the bad guy?  The AO employee for enforcing it when it rarely is enforced.  

[legaljen1969]

4 minutes ago, slyster said:

My point is more about the rule that many parents may not know about, a rule that is not strictly enforced.  It's unfortunate what happened to this teen.  IF he had known the rule, he could have said my parents are off the ship, but I am here with so and so who are adults.  

 

Some may say well it's in the cruise contract.  I just think it would be helpful for parents to have that information in their stateroom upon arrival so if it's enforced, it's already in the stateroom.  There is a rule and RC has the right to enforce it.  The thing that gets me is that a lot of times they don't enforce the guidelines/rules. It can be frustrating when a rule isn't enforced and then when it is, "well it IS a rule".  Who is the bad guy?  The AO employee for enforcing it when it rarely is enforced.  

I definitely agree with that point.  Since it seems to have become an issue lately, there probably should be something more explicit stating the rules for the teens. 

 

[Domino D]

2 hours ago, slyster said:

There is a rule and RC has the right to enforce it.  The thing that gets me is that a lot of times they don't enforce the guidelines/rules. It can be frustrating when a rule isn't enforced and then when it is, "well it IS a rule".

This^

How many issues on here that become heated debates are things with rules and policies to regulate them, but are just not uniformly enforced.  Dress code, chair hogging, dogs on board, etc. 

[slyster]

4 minutes ago, Domino D said:

This^

How many issues on here that become heated debates are things with rules and policies to regulate them, but are just not uniformly enforced.  Dress code, chair hogging, dogs on board, etc. 

 LIKE!

 

I was thinking of those exact same scenarios.  You almost can't blame someone for being upset when rules aren't enforced.  In your scenarios, many people already know the rule too.  Not all or maybe not a majority, but many do.

 

Be consistent or change the rule.  I don't blame the OP for being upset and frustrated.  It's also not fair making the enforcer of the rule the "bad guy".  Believe me, I let my frustrations get the best of me and I do end up blaming the one who makes it more difficult for me while everyone else lets it slide.  (something for me to think about)

Edited October 28, 2019 by slyster