Warning to parents of Teens

[Iamcruzin]

This is very confusing to me. There was a recent thread about a 20yr old and and 19yr not being able to share a room unless they were next-door to the parents or guardian. Now I read that it was or is acceptable to leave a 12-17yr old unsupervised on the ship while the parents are in port? I'm not judging the kid's or parents. I'm judging Royal Caribbean. What happens if for some reason the parents get detained and the ship sails without them? The two rules are very contradicting.

[lovescats5]

As for other cruise-lines, I can only speak for Carnival where it is explicitly stated that it is acceptable: "Leaving Children On Board While in Port If parent/guardian decide to leave their children in the care of the Youth Staff while in port, they can! " 

This looks to me like the RCI rule.  The child can stay in AO or go with you.  I do not read here that they can be on the ship running with their friends.  We have the rule when we cruise that my granddaughter can go to AO (guess that will change this year because she will be 12) anytime she wants but for this freedom she will go to dinner with us every evening and when we leave the boat at a port she will go with us.  Knowing this is the rule there is never a problem with her wanting to stay and run with the friends.  I know vacations are for us all to have fun but they  are also a time for family to be together and enjoy new things.  If this means there is shopping and she has to endure that for a short period of time then that is what she does.

If you change to Carnival, have a good time.  We thought the kids running wild on the 2 Carnival cruises we were on was way worse than any RCI rule.

[mjkacmom]

44 minutes ago, Joseph2017China said:

Sorry but this is a good policy.  I have never left my kids alone on their own in a foreign country while not under my watchful eye.  So much can go wrong and no matter how well behaved, they are, they are still legally a minor.  Think of this, the ship's crew, (not including the kid's club staff) are not your teen's babysitter, but once you leave the ship, and they are unsupervised they become the responsibility of the ship, and if you don't show up back on board, than what?  What you hear on these boards are always, I have done it many times, so it is ok......just like so many other topics. I know I'm in the minority, but my son won't leave his daughter out of sight either.....so it brushed off of me.

My son had a great time when he was 15 and joined his dad and two sisters in Scotland for a dance competition. He toured the city. Our HS’s choir trips allowed the teens to tour without chaperones. Teens do not need babysitters. This particular teen had adults onboard in their traveling party. I don’t know how old your granddaughter is, but kids are showing up at college woefully unprepared.

[Big_G]

It's a good heads-up to those who were unaware but that said, we never left our teens on-board alone. I have great kids but they were still kids and after 30 years in law enforcement I l learned some of the nicest kids did some of the stupidest things. Take it as a lesson learned and move on.

[ONECRUISER]

1 hour ago, kidless said:

You just never know what can https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2016/04/27/stranded-mom-sobs-as-cruise-ship-sails-away-with-her-kids/amp/

...and this isnt first time happened. Over the yrs been other cases where ship left without a parent. 

[Junkhouse]

When our kids were under 20 and we were stopped in port, there was no way in hell I would leave them on the boat or in port by themselves.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Junkhouse

[reallyitsmema]

Thanks for sharing your experience.  We too have left our son on the ship for a short time while we shopped at the pier in St Martin and in Cozumel.  He was 16 and 17 when we did it and we were back on the ship within an hour.  We would never have let him tender on his own, even at that age, but we all parent differently.  It makes no sense that they signed an older teen into Adventure Ocean with very young children.  It sounds like your son handled himself appropriately and did not argue while he was in "jail".  The cruise line needs to state what their policy is in regards to children and port visits in the compass.  If they are telling you that grandparents can't even be left on the ship with kids while parents go off for a few hours, then they have a bigger issue than they realize.

[mjkacmom]

35 minutes ago, Junkhouse said:

When our kids were under 20 and we were stopped in port, there was no way in hell I would leave them on the boat or in port by themselves.

Under 20? 18 year olds are adults, free to do what they want. Both dd23 and ds21 traveled internationally without their parents under 20, so did I. Cut the strings.

[Showme72]

So if you are under 18, your guardian has to be onboard or you have to be signed in the AO. The issue seems to have occurred when the teen didn't want to sign in to AO. I don't see that RCCI did anything wrong.

As they say, Enjoy Carnival.

[mjkacmom]

30 minutes ago, Showme72 said:

So if you are under 18, your guardian has to be onboard or you have to be signed in the AO. The issue seems to have occurred when the teen didn't want to sign in to AO. I don't see that RCCI did anything wrong.

As they say, Enjoy Carnival.

But technically teens aren’t allowed in AO, it’s for those under 12. A teen wouldn’t be registered for AO.

[Showme72]

3 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

But technically teens aren’t allowed in AO, it’s for those under 12. A teen wouldn’t be registered for AO.

 

IDK,

The first post in the thread states that her 'teen son was forced to sign himself into AO'. Seems like a big misunderstanding and the 'other side' of the story is missing.

[Domino D]

14 hours ago, RockHoundTX said:

Once she checks herself into AO, myself or my wife has to check her out on port days (perfectly understandable). At other ports with a pier, their were numerous times where my son and daughter re-boarded together with no problems (usually with a friendly wave to us from the Security staff).

 

It was the selective enforcement of a policy that I truly thought we were in compliance with that irked me the most. 

 

When I asked Guest Services why he was forced to sign himself into AO versus going back to the Teen Room to hang out, I was basically told "if he hurt himself, we could not provide medical care unless he signed himself in".

 

Yeah I get that.  We can debate all day the merits of any rule or policy, but I have never been on a cruise and not seen employees willingly ignore a rule, and any passenger has the right to be confused and frustrated with those situations.    

 

Had a friend board at a port with a small bottle of Jack Daniels in his shorts pocket.  He figured he could get it through the scanner.  NOPE.  But when the security guy frisked him, and found it, he said "You know you're not suppose to have that on board"  but then just let him go with the bottle.  Unfortunately, that doesn't invalidate the actual rule.  In your case the rule itself is a little more vague, as to what constitutes "supervision", and your son's honesty cost him.  As far as medical care, there is a grain of truth to what they say, but there own policies are so vague that they can't explain them.  One of the first things you learn in contract law is that vagueness (ambiguity) is normally judged to the benefit of the person who did NOT write the contract, but that does not seem to apply to the cruise contract.  

 

It's your call whether to switch cruise lines over the incident, but I think it could happen to you on any cruise line.  Whether we like it not, whether they enforce the policies or not, whether the crew even understands the policies or not, the cruise ticket contract and accompanying documents are all that matters.  Hope your next cruise goes better.  Thanks for pointing out the issue and being willing to answer questions from strangers. 

[fred30]

I don't understand why this is so shocking.  If you have a 20 year old along with you they have to either be in your cabin or a cabin next or adjacent to yours.

But apparently you can leave them on the ship while you go ashore. 

[fdthird]

I’m surprised about the Mom who let her 10 year old tender back to the ship alone.  On our recent Liberty B2B, it was specifically said on each port day by the Cruise Director that anyone under 18 could not leave or return to the ship without a parent. So no meeting on the pier while the rest of the family gets together and no returning to the ship alone while Mom shops.  

[Tatka]

1 hour ago, Showme72 said:

 

IDK,

The first post in the thread states that her 'teen son was forced to sign himself into AO'. Seems like a big misunderstanding and the 'other side' of the story is missing.

 

    I guess this rule is the way it is because kids under 11 cannot sign themselves off from AO, but teens could.

Not sure how 17 yo got detained in under 11 yo club.

 

    My son is adult, but when we cruised with him (up to about 10 years ago) we did not know this rule too. So he stayed on board several times and boarded ship several times alone too (we saw him boarding). He was coming home from school and entering house alone since he was 8, so we trusted him, but we would've obeyed rules if we knew.

[legaljen1969]

16 hours ago, RockHoundTX said:

I mentioned my daughter strictly as an example. You would think that if they would let a 10YO go back onboard without parents (and we were a little shocked when RCI Security at the tender said it was perfectly OK) then you would think a Teen was also OK. On that particular trip she went to the Windjammer to get a bite to eat and then checked herself into AO with no problems. Being that this was already her 5th or 6th time on this particular ship (and we had numerous adult friends that we were sailing with that were already on the ship),

. My understanding (as well as many on this forum) was that grandparent/relative, adult friend, and/or Teen Club = "appropriate supervision".

 

 

So if a grandparent/relative, adult friend can be added to the approved pick up list of people who can sign your child out of the program, how is it that they aren’t “appropriate supervision?” 
So I appropriate to sign my niece out of AO, but not appropriate to supervise her? 
I have a niece who is 10 and another 15. So it would be okay for them to leave my 10 year old niece onboard and let me pick her up when I return to the shop, but the 15 year old would either have to be off the ship with her parents OR at least one parent would have to be on the ship? 
That makes no sense. Definitely an odd interpretation of policy on “appropriate supervision.” 

[legaljen1969]

21 hours ago, RockHoundTX said:

Contrary to what has been stated many times on this board, Teens (12-17) are NOT allowed to remain on-board on port days without a Parent or Legal Guardian. Here is the exact wording I received today from RCI Corporate Guest Services: "Children from ages 3 – 11 years old will need to be signed into Adventure Ocean if the parents or legal guardians will be off the ship at the port of call. On the other hand, minors from 12 – 17 years old may not be left onboard without a parent or legal guardian. This applies to all ships under the Royal Caribbean International lines sailing within the United States."

 

With over a dozen cruises under my belt with the family, I "thought" I knew the rules. Imagine the surprise when both my wife and myself were "red carded" coming back on the ship after an excursion and told "to immediately talk to Guest Services and Security". My Teen son had been verbally threatened by a Youth Program member and forced to sign himself into Adventure Ocean. Needless to say he was pretty mortified especially when his teen peers (whose parents were also not onboard) teased him for the rest of the cruise for "being put in jail" . Had he been acting up? Nope. Causing problems? Nope. Before going to Windjammer with the rest of the Teens, he merely walked from the Teen Room to Adventure Ocean to make sure that his little sister was OK and see if she needed anything (something he had done numerous times before since this was a B2B cruise and the 7th 7-day cruise on this particular ship). Since he was very well know by the Youth Staff, it seems one of the staff wanted to make a name for herself by "enforcing policy" as she understood it. Basically as the old saying goes, "No good deed goes unpunished" especially on RCI.  

 

I then spent the next 2 days on-board and then 2 weeks afterwards trying to figure out "why" this incident occurred and what rule/policy had been violated. About half the staff/officers I talked to onboard were just as surprised as I was relative to what happened. The comment "yeah. Teens on-board without parents is normal. No problem with that." or some variation was said multiple times. Some staff/customer service mentioned "policy" but not a single one could actually show me the policy. Ultimately, I was able to determine that it came down to the interpretation of the wording "appropriate supervision" in the Guest Conduct Policy. Being that my son was active in the Teen Club and we also had multiple adult friends onboard if something came up, I could not imagine that being anything other than "appropriate supervision".

 

So asking the explicit question "so, you are saying that a 17 year old college student is not allowed to be on-board if their parents or legal guardian are on a port excursion?" and the definitive answer is now "Yes. While we won't randomly go looking for kids to ask them if their parents are onboard, if we do find out they are unsupervised, they will be detained.".  As has already been discussed many times on this board (and confirmed on my calls), Legal Guardian does not mean grandparents, friends, etc. RCI basically has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy so while the chance of your Teen being "detained" is somewhat small, it can happen (as my wife and I unfortunately found out). 

 

If you are someone like us that try our best to follow the rules, then evidently RCI really does not want your business. I can't think of many activities LESS enjoyable than shopping with a disgruntled Teen who would rather be hanging out with his/her friends. The whole point as to why we have taken so many cruises is that we can all "do our own thing": my wife and I like to shop, my son likes to hang out with other Teens playing video games or dodge ball, and my daughter likes Adventure Ocean (but about to be a Teen as well). Now that it is no longer acceptable by RCI, I guess we will have to re-evaluate our vacation options. While I would have thought that RCI would truly want repeat Family Cruisers like us, guess that is not really the case.   

 

  

 

Unintended lesson from this experience? Message Royal is sending?  If you have a responsible teen and do leave him/her alone- be sure they remain low key and definitely make sure your teenage kid doesn’t go check on the younger siblings. 

[atush]

4 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

Under 20? 18 year olds are adults, free to do what they want. Both dd23 and ds21 traveled internationally without their parents under 20, so did I. Cut the strings.

 

Why are over 18s babied like this?

 

They are adults, they can vote, marry, have sex.  More importantly, at that age and even younger are treated as adults of they break the law.  Teach your children to be adults before the time they are 18.

[KelSny1011]

7 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

This is very confusing to me. There was a recent thread about a 20yr old and and 19yr not being able to share a room unless they were next-door to the parents or guardian. Now I read that it was or is acceptable to leave a 12-17yr old unsupervised on the ship while the parents are in port? I'm not judging the kid's or parents. I'm judging Royal Caribbean. What happens if for some reason the parents get detained and the ship sails without them? The two rules are very contradicting.

 

I'm so with you on this...this was my EXACT thoughts when encountering this cruisers situation over the other cruiser with the 19 & 20 year old.

 

Pretty comical actually.

 

I have a 16 year old and 12 year old.  I pay for the cruise so they gotta go every where we want to go while cruising.  That's just the rules.  Until they can afford to pay for themselves, they get to endure their Dad and I.  We have no problem leaving them at home so they know don't be that kid.  OP - you're nicer parents than us!

Edited October 25, 2019 by KelSny1011

[RockHoundTX]

3 hours ago, legaljen1969 said:

So if a grandparent/relative, adult friend can be added to the approved pick up list of people who can sign your child out of the program, how is it that they aren’t “appropriate supervision?” 
So I appropriate to sign my niece out of AO, but not appropriate to supervise her? 
I have a niece who is 10 and another 15. So it would be okay for them to leave my 10 year old niece onboard and let me pick her up when I return to the shop, but the 15 year old would either have to be off the ship with her parents OR at least one parent would have to be on the ship? 
That makes no sense. Definitely an odd interpretation of policy on “appropriate supervision.” 

Yes. This is exactly the situation. You can leave your 10YO on the ship in AO but the 15YO has to be off the ship if the parents are. This is exactly why I found it so odd as well and made sure that this is truly what the policy meant (asked this exact question many times). What I posted in the origin post was the exact cut-n-paste from the e-mail from the office of the AVP of RCI Guest Services. While there is no problem with an "approved signer" such as yourself signing a child out on Sea days, I don't think you are technically allowed to sign them out on a Port day (but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen all the time).   

 

Funny enough, during the call with the RCI Director of Guest Services (reports directly to the AVP?), she originally categorically stated that "No minor is allowed to stay on the ship if under 18 without parents". She then gave the exact excuse of "What happens if you miss the ship if your kids are in AO?". I then told her I was absolutely certain she was wrong about this. She stated that she had been with RCI corporate for 9 years, had cruised several times with her minor daughter, and knew the rules. About 10 minutes later in the conversation she read me the exact policy where it CLEARLY stated that it is was acceptable for those from the age of 3-11 to be in AO when the parents on on-shore. She paused for a second and then stated "Oh. It looks like you are right.". So here is an example of a long-time RCI employee that absolutely should have known the rules that didn't.

 

As for those that have stated that it is irresponsible for parents to leave those under 18 on-board because they are too immature, I find that very sad. I was in college living on my own when I was 17 (and had no problem driving half-way across the country by myself when I was 16). My wife left home to attend school across the country from her parents when she was 14. My son will be a sophomore in college next year, so if I can't trust him by now then there is a problem 😉    That being said, the point of my post was not to debate specific to my kids. I just wanted to pass on my experience so that others hopefully won't be shocked if they find themselves in the same situation. 

  

[RockHoundTX]

4 hours ago, legaljen1969 said:

Unintended lesson from this experience? Message Royal is sending?  If you have a responsible teen and do leave him/her alone- be sure they remain low key and definitely make sure your teenage kid doesn’t go check on the younger siblings. 

Yep. Exactly. Also, in the unlikely even that someone does ask the question "Are your parents aboard?", the correct response should be "I have appropriate supervision as per the GCP" (assuming you actually do have an adult on board that could be contacted)  and then just walk away 😉 I doubt there would be many RCI employees that would push the issue at that point (assuming they even knew the wording the GCP to begin with).  

[rimmit]

31 minutes ago, RockHoundTX said:

As for those that have stated that it is irresponsible for parents to leave those under 18 on-board because they are too immature, I find that very sad. I was in college living on my own when I was 17 (and had no problem driving half-way across the country by myself when I was 16). My wife left home to attend school across the country from her parents when she was 14. My son will be a sophomore in college next year, so if I can't trust him by now then there is a problem 😉    That being said, the point of my post was not to debate specific to my kids. I just wanted to pass on my experience so that others hopefully won't be shocked if they find themselves in the same situation. 

  

 

I also was in college at 17, and I agree that all the judgement being given is pretty sad.

 

When I was a teenager in many ports after an excursion my parents would spent the last hour the ship was in port looking at the gift shops.  My brother and I typically just took the shuttle from the center of town back to the ship or just walked back to the ship on our own (this was not just the Caribbean, but all around the world).  No one had a second thought about it back in the 90s.  In this day and age a parent gets judged immediately as being uncaring, selfish, and irresponsible.  And people wonder why the upcoming generation wilts in the workplace any time they are criticized.   They have had their hands held practically their whole life.  

 

As parent of a 4 and 8 year old myself, parenting is totally different now than it was in the 80s and 90s.   Parents can’t do anything these days without criticism or shaming.  

Edited October 26, 2019 by rimmit

[Domino D]

22 minutes ago, RockHoundTX said:

Also, in the unlikely even that someone does ask the question "Are your parents aboard?", the correct response should be "I have appropriate supervision as per the GCP" (assuming you actually do have an adult on board that could be contacted)  and then just walk away

I would go with "I'm sorry, I don't know the exact whereabouts of my parents at this time.  I was headed back to my cabin, as that's where we are meeting up."

[mayleeman]

Just a thought, but I would bet that Royal is looking carefully at all of their "who can provide supervision" policies after the tragedy on Freedom of the Seas. That situation has nothing to do directly with this one, but it could well explain why kicking a question up to corporate HQ has resulted in a strict to-the-letter interpretation of a kid-related policy. They might even be figuring out ways to allow them to intervene more easily if they think someone is not providing proper supervision.

 

Companies are always reviewing every procedure and policy when something horrible happens.

[travelplus]

17 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

My son had a great time when he was 15 and joined his dad and two sisters in Scotland for a dance competition. He toured the city. Our HS’s choir trips allowed the teens to tour without chaperones. Teens do not need babysitters. This particular teen had adults onboard in their traveling party. I don’t know how old your granddaughter is, but kids are showing up at college woefully unprepared.

I rode the Paris metro alone as a teen.