Azamara vs Oceanis vs Princess small ships

[marinaro44]

7 hours ago, hubofhockey said:

 

Not sure, but I have never had trouble finding a seat in the section I wanted on Celebrity.

The issue isn't difficulty finding a seat.  It's "lesser" guests having to see their "betters" being seated in an area where the "lessers" aren't allowed.

[ABoatNerd]

One of the key elements of the premium and luxury lines is the equivalency of all guests - ie a repudiation of the Celebrity, NCL, MSC class segmentation arrangement which harkens back to the old transatlantic arrangement that the cruising leaders in the 1970's whined were discriminatory - cruising is heading back to the transatlantic days. Acknowledge that on the premium and luxury lines, the highest priced accommodation can book specialties earlier and in some cases have a separate lounge.

 

If the premium and luxury lines emulate the class segmentation - then cruising will change dramatically.

 

What goes around, comes around. Full circle.

 

I choose to want to purchase a cruise where all guests co-mingle and enjoy the ship and the sea. 

 

However, there are many other travel options than cruising - land tours etc. 

 

 

[hrhdhd]

19 hours ago, marinaro44 said:

Does Celebrity have a reserved seating area in the theater, a la NCL?  That wouldn't be very "out of sight."

 

<another post, same poster>The issue isn't difficulty finding a seat.  It's "lesser" guests having to see their "betters" being seated in an area where the "lessers" aren't allowed.

 

Yes, on Chic nights there is a section of seating reserved for suite passengers. And we've paid for it, so we don't mind using the perk. It's not about being better or lesser; anyone can pay for a suite and get the perks.

Edited January 23, 2020 by hrhdhd

[marinaro44]

5 hours ago, hrhdhd said:

 

Yes, on Chic nights there is a section of seating reserved for suite passengers. And we've paid for it, so we don't mind using the perk. It's not about being better or lesser; anyone can pay for a suite and get the perks.

"We've paid for it" is a convenient rationalization.  That's exactly the problem with two-class ships.  Haves and have nots.

 

And what in blazes is Chic night.  Still Celebrity changing dress code certain nights?

Edited January 24, 2020 by marinaro44

[hubofhockey]

Chic night is one or two nights per itinerary where dress is between casual and formal.  In MDR, food is somewhat better, and there is sometimes better entertainment.  

 

I have never noticed roped off seating for those in suites, but I'm not interesting in sitting that close either.

 

I would agree that Celebrity and its leadership is going down a slippery slope in partitioning off more and more special areas on its ships to suite passengers, even to the point of taking away public areas on older ships to create new space for that class of passengers.  It's a bad look, emblematic of the direction  Lisa Lutoff-Perlo has taken the line.  They even got to the point where passengers, less than suite level, could no longer get the classic drinks package using a "perk" without a surcharge.  There was a revolution among passengers, and Lutoff-Perlo ended the surcharge.  

 

I still enjoy the Celebrity experience and especially aqua class.  It's relaxing not dining in a huge MDR for an entire itinerary.  Every person needs to decide for themselves if they are uncomfortable with the differences.  The roped off areas on Princess in a dining room is a big turn off to me.  I don't mind the separate restaurants though.  To me, most other differences relate to cost.  To many of us, Azamara's prices are a bigger turn off than separate areas on a ship.  To that effect, everyone gets treated equally on Azamara as long as you can afford the steep price to be treated equally.  That line of thinking is counterintuitive to me, but I do understand the argument.

[uktog]

That’s a very fair assessment. I think I have reached the stage where the price for no segregation is too high compared to the overall benefits but for others it may differ. Bear in mind I have seen seats reserved for some cruisers in the show lounge on Azamara- certainly on the World Journey this happened for some couples though to be fair I’ve only seen it once for one particular person in recent cruises. 

[Grandma Cruising]

And there are always reserved seats for the top suites at the Azamazing evenings.

[nordski]

And once, although not apparently limited to top suites, there was reserved seating for a group for White   Night.

 

But given the seats available it didn’t really matter.

 

Nine of these instances are as visible, in my assessment as the separate check-in lines for suite guests at embarkation.

 

And again, given the speed of the process, it’s only a momentary awareness and matters little.

[nordski]

3 hours ago, hubofhockey said:

 

 

I have never noticed roped off seating for those in suites, but I'm not interesting in sitting that close either.

 

 

 

I still enjoy the Celebrity experience and especially aqua class.  It's relaxing not dining in a huge MDR for an entire itinerary.  Every person needs to decide for themselves if they are uncomfortable with the differences.  The roped off areas on Princess in a dining room is a big turn off to me.  I don't mind the separate restaurants though.  To me, most other differences relate to cost.  To many of us, Azamara's prices are a bigger turn off than separate areas on a ship.  To that effect, everyone gets treated equally on Azamara as long as you can afford the steep price to be treated equally.  That line of thinking is counterintuitive to me, but I do understand the argument.

As to your first point, I am on Eclipse now and have yet to see a roped-off area in the Theatre.

 

Like you, we prefer Aqua Class and, as you noted, the restaurant is quite removed from general public traffic. As is Luminae for the suite owners.

 

A separation exists from those in the MDR, but it is certainly not “in your face”. One could, of course, argue that that makes it worse.

 

 

[hubofhockey]

This really isn't equality, but it doesn't bother me because "it's paid for" and no different from other lines, but it seems no different than what Celebrity is doing with respect to theatre seats.  It's also been written here several times that VIP perks such as dining with senior officers is available to most traveled and top suites.  We had our 20 something kids with on our last Celebrity cruise to Alaska and I don't think we passed by Blu one time.  It will be great to do Aqua again and I think suites on Celebrity aren't worth it for us, in the same way, we'll only pay for Azamara for destination immersion cruises. 

 

Other VIP perks for only the top 10 suites include complimentary access to the spa deck (all suites get this), priority seating at the AzAmazing Evening, a private cocktail party and a "best of the best" dinner, held in the ship's Drawing Room once per cruise, with the captain and other officers.

 

 

[marinaro44]

5 hours ago, hubofhockey said:

This really isn't equality, but it doesn't bother me because "it's paid for" and no different from other lines, but it seems no different than what Celebrity is doing with respect to theatre seats.  It's also been written here several times that VIP perks such as dining with senior officers is available to most traveled and top suites.  We had our 20 something kids with on our last Celebrity cruise to Alaska and I don't think we passed by Blu one time.  It will be great to do Aqua again and I think suites on Celebrity aren't worth it for us, in the same way, we'll only pay for Azamara for destination immersion cruises. 

 

Other VIP perks for only the top 10 suites include complimentary access to the spa deck (all suites get this), priority seating at the AzAmazing Evening, a private cocktail party and a "best of the best" dinner, held in the ship's Drawing Room once per cruise, with the captain and other officers.

Any passenger can buy a pass for the spa deck.  It's limited only by capacity.  So the spa deck is not exclusively for suites.  Just like everyone has an equal shot at specialty dining reservations, unlike some lines where top categories get to reserve first.  The fact that specialties and the Spa Deck are complimentary for suites is a non-issue.  What would be an issue is if non-suite passengers were excluded, as is the case on Celebrity in several areas on the ship like the suites-only restaurant.

 

The VIP bus for Azamazing Evening does give me some discomfort, but fifteen buses can't arrive all at the same time so one bus has to arrive first.  Not sure whom else I'd assign to that first bus.  Bus 2 is for mobility-impaired.  You can't have the entire ship rush for the gangway at once.

 

Performances on the ship should be first-come,  first-served as everyone has an equal chance to get to the theater, unlike Celebrity and others with reserved seating areas.

[Covepointcruiser]

We were on the Journey last November in a top suite.   We were not notified of any special seats for the shows.  In fact, we could often not find seats.   A special area of the theater was reserved for the passengers embarking in Bermuda although most walked out of the show.   It seemed that the same ten or so folks were always in the prime seats and I believe they were very frequent cruisers with Azamara.   If you want a classless ship you won’t get any better than Azamara.   Seabourn is a close second but I find it more expensive.

[uktog]

19 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

We were on the Journey last November in a top suite.   We were not notified of any special seats for the shows.  In fact, we could often not find seats.   A special area of the theater was reserved for the passengers embarking in Bermuda although most walked out of the show.   It seemed that the same ten or so folks were always in the prime seats and I believe they were very frequent cruisers with Azamara.   If you want a classless ship you won’t get any better than Azamara.   Seabourn is a close second but I find it more expensive.

Were the seats reserved for the frequent cruisers or did they just come very early for a favourite spot?  

[PirateWife]

We once got reserved seating at an Azamara White Night event.  The Hotel Manager was setting up a reserved table by the pool for fellow trivia players.  Mom was in her 90s and in a wheel chair. I jokingly asked if three of us could have a similar table on the other side as it was our traveling friend's birthday that day.  The Hotel Manager not only set up the special table for us but also made sure we had a birthday cake delivered to the table.  This was very special.  The only time I have seen reserved seats for the nightly entertainment is for someone filming the performance. It's first come, first served and always enough seating.

[hrhdhd]

17 hours ago, marinaro44 said:

"We've paid for it" is a convenient rationalization.  That's exactly the problem with two-class ships.  Haves and have nots.

 

Aren't you arguing in the other thread about wifi that you've paid for it with your significant number of cruises?

[hrhdhd]

11 hours ago, hubofhockey said:

I have never noticed roped off seating for those in suites, but I'm not interesting in sitting that close either.

 

The roped-off section is on the second level of the theater, so the seats aren't close to the stage.

[Salf777]

So I have seen many discussions in many threads and don’t understand why people get so offended by suites and higher paying customers get more. I know I will receive a lot of nasty responses for this. Hotels have suites and have concierge level floors, planes have first class cabins for passengers who pay more, Disney has private guides with special access, concert venues have suites and boxes with special treatment a car has more bells and whistles if you order it that way and pay for it. We prefer bing in a suite when we cruise and feel the perks are worth the extra costs and I always say that people who cruise in the least expensive cabins are getting basically the same cruise we are for much less money. We can all eat in same restaurants and travel to the same places and see the same shows. On a ship I prefer to pay more to be in a nicer room with more perks, but when I stay in a hotel I don’t like to spend the extra on a concierge level but I don’t begrudge the people who choose to do so. It’s my choice to do so and the extras factor into my decision.  If you buy an apartment a better view or higher floor and a better building will cost more.

Yes the ships that have “roped off areas” can be a bit tacky, but for example on NCL they have The Haven which is a separate section of the ship that gives the small ship experience on a big ship with all the toys. It’s much more expensive but if someone wants to pay for it that’s up to them.
 

so bring on the comments about how horrible it is but please know this, we take fewer trips in a manner we enjoy and yes I’ll say it, we like to feel special.  So we make sacrifices to do this. We don’t have the luxury of traveling all the time so when we do what’s wrong with taking advantage of whatever we can to make our vacations special?

[marinaro44]

7 hours ago, hrhdhd said:

 

Aren't you arguing in the other thread about wifi that you've paid for it with your significant number of cruises?

To me, there is a big difference between getting something (e.g., wifi, liquor bottles in your suite, specialty dinners) free or at reduced cost and being given access to areas at which others are forbidden and turned away or cutting to the head of a line.

[hubofhockey]

5 hours ago, marinaro44 said:

To me, there is a big difference between getting something (e.g., wifi, liquor bottles in your suite, specialty dinners) free or at reduced cost and being given access to areas at which others are forbidden and turned away or cutting to the head of a line.

 

I don't know why people have problems with what you are saying.  You are explaining why YOU don't like Celebrity.  Your feelings are your own.   You are looking at this through your own lens, which is fine.  

 

Of course, you understand the other side, which is that the very people who are excluded from a few rows in a theatre are also excluded from cruising on Azamara because they can't afford to even book an inside cabin on Azamara.  To me, Azamara is still a luxury (as is a suite on Celebrity).  I'll only pay that extra price to Azamara for a truly special itinerary. I'll never pay it for a suite on Celebrity because I don't see the value in Luminae for a cruise or to be able to sit in a few roped off rows.  That's my choice though.   I don't begrudge any of the regulars on Azamara or the Celebrity suit passengers anything.  Most are very successful and pay for that.  I do find events for "Best of the Best" a bit off putting though, if not cringe worthy.  I don't hate the events or the VIP treatments of dining with officers that some get, but that expression, not so much.  At the end of the day, you pay for the experience you want and I try not to worry about what someone else is getting.

 

 

[marinaro44]

Hub, apparently I am simply unable to explain my point to you.  The fact that someone can afford Ritz Carlton yachts while others cruise mass-market lines is no problem to me.  I have no problem with someone having deeper pockets than others, and taking advantage of it. 

 

My problem is with segregated areas on a ship.  I believe once someone leaves his or her stateroom all areas and all amenities should be available to him or her.  Some in a higher category stateroom may have it included as a perq with their fare while others may have to pay extra, but no one should be told they aren't in a high-enough stateroom category to dine here, or sit here, or drink here, or swim here.  Dining reservations, theater seating, spa appointments, lounge chairs by the pool, whatever, should be available on a first-come, first-served basis.

 

Read ABoatNerd's postings on this thread.  He expresses my thoughts very well, likely more effectively than I do.  I simply dislike the idea of multi-class cruising and the class-consciousness onboard that will result.

 

 

[Salf777]

9 hours ago, hubofhockey said:

 

I don't know why people have problems with what you are saying.  You are explaining why YOU don't like Celebrity.  Your feelings are your own.   You are looking at this through your own lens, which is fine.  

 

Of course, you understand the other side, which is that the very people who are excluded from a few rows in a theatre are also excluded from cruising on Azamara because they can't afford to even book an inside cabin on Azamara.  To me, Azamara is still a luxury (as is a suite on Celebrity).  I'll only pay that extra price to Azamara for a truly special itinerary. I'll never pay it for a suite on Celebrity because I don't see the value in Luminae for a cruise or to be able to sit in a few roped off rows.  That's my choice though.   I don't begrudge any of the regulars on Azamara or the Celebrity suit passengers anything.  Most are very successful and pay for that.  I do find events for "Best of the Best" a bit off putting though, if not cringe worthy.  I don't hate the events or the VIP treatments of dining with officers that some get, but that expression, not so much.  At the end of the day, you pay for the experience you want and I try not to worry about what someone else is getting.

 

 

Well said! I think you hit the nail on the head from both points of view. Heck for many years we sailed on RCL in a balcony stateroom and saw the suite guests areas but it never bothered us. It’s life there is separation everywhere you go based on paying more. If people can afford it and want to pay it more power to them. However, I wouldn’t let it effect my vacation because someone else can go somewhere I can’t. As long as I feel I am receiving a good value for what I paid I am happy. Heck if Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos were on the same ship I wouldn’t expect them to stay in the same class as me and frankly it wouldn’t bother me one bit. Let everyone enjoy what they want and just enjoy yourself. 
Now I will say that I agree with the thought that these areas makes some PEOPLE arrogant and act like jerks! Yes that’s annoying but that’s not the ships fault, I’m sure these people are idiots everywhere they go. Some are just rude and arrogant but I would venture to say they are that way everywhere in their life. And you know what they are probably miserable. 
im on a vacation I worked hard for, I’m going to enjoy myself and not worry about what the other guy is getting that I’m not. 

[ABoatNerd]

CC is a powerful forum for exchange of real time information.

 

Regarding Oceania - go to the CC Review section and observe the significant % of negative reviews across the entire fleet and from new and frequent cruisers of Oceania.  Do some trend analysis.

 

Reading these reviews - compare to the overall reviews of other cruise lines - Oceania presents poorly.

 

I certainly would not book an Oceania cruise based on the %'s and the content of the assessments. Yikes.  And this from a so called "premium" line with premium costs. 

 

 

[hubofhockey]

5 hours ago, marinaro44 said:

Hub, apparently I am simply unable to explain my point to you.  The fact that someone can afford Ritz Carlton yachts while others cruise mass-market lines is no problem to me.  I have no problem with someone having deeper pockets than others, and taking advantage of it. 

 

My problem is with segregated areas on a ship.  I believe once someone leaves his or her stateroom all areas and all amenities should be available to him or her.  Some in a higher category stateroom may have it included as a perq with their fare while others may have to pay extra, but no one should be told they aren't in a high-enough stateroom category to dine here, or sit here, or drink here, or swim here.  Dining reservations, theater seating, spa appointments, lounge chairs by the pool, whatever, should be available on a first-come, first-served basis.

 

Read ABoatNerd's postings on this thread.  He expresses my thoughts very well, likely more effectively than I do.  I simply dislike the idea of multi-class cruising and the class-consciousness onboard that will result.

 

 

 

I actually understand where you're coming from.  I get that what bothers you is access to public areas for everyone on a ship.  It doesn't make it bad, but it bothers some.  I was just explaining why it doesn't bother me and many others and I don't think Celebrity should be condemned for trying to serve those who don't want to pay for or can't afford their suites.  

 

More to your point,   one of my favorite things about Azamara is how friendly all passengers are on board.  I was only on one 15-night cruise, but I absolutely get why you love Azamara so much.  To me, it just doesn't work on every cruise or every vacation that we want to do, either logistically or affordability and we just don't let some suite perks that I don't have bother me.