Carnival Collision in Cozumel

[Toranut97]

Well, we know how crowded that particular port can get... though that likely had nothing to do with the accident. 
 

video here - profanity alert. 
https://kfor.com/2019/12/20/video-shows-two-carnival-cruise-ships-collide-at-cozumel/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

Edited December 20, 2019 by Toranut97
Misspelling

[schmerl]

I saw this on the news and they really showed the collision and the damage. Carnival claims all the cruises scheduled on those ships will go on!

[Paulchili]

A “bow bender” - I don’t think ships have fenders 😀

[Classiccruiser777]

Poor seamanship.

 

[rucruisn2]

23 minutes ago, Classiccruiser777 said:

Poor seamanship.

 

Amen to that!  Who was on the bridge?  We're old boaters and don't think this is a common accident.  

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, Classiccruiser777 said:

Poor seamanship.

 

 

2 hours ago, rucruisn2 said:

Amen to that!  Who was on the bridge?  We're old boaters and don't think this is a common accident.  

Yes, I'm sure the two of you sitting at your computers thousands of miles away from the accident site and with absolutely zero firsthand knowledge of what happened hit the nail on the head. I'm sure you're both fully licensed masters who are qualified to command cruise ships with 6 thousand souls on board and you probably have years of experience as harbor pilots too. 

[StanandJim]

10 hours ago, njhorseman said:

I'm sure you're both fully licensed masters who are qualified to command cruise ships with 6 thousand souls on board and you probably have years of experience as harbor pilots too. 

 

Or maybe you don't need a PHD to recognize crass incompetence. 

 

There are people who have risen to some pretty rarefied heights without the common sense that God gave a goat.

Or worse, a few that lost their common sense to hubris.

 

That Master of the Concordia comes to mind......

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, StanandJim said:

 

Or maybe you don't need a PHD to recognize crass incompetence. 

 

There are people who have risen to some pretty rarefied heights without the common sense that God gave a goat.

Or worse, a few that lost their common sense to hubris.

 

That Master of the Concordia comes to mind......

You don't need a PhD to know that what happened on the Concordia still required an inquiry to establish the facts and a court of law to mete out punishment to the master. 

 

If you choose to join the group who is certain they know exactly what happened in Cozumel a few days ago without a single fact at their disposal then I'd suggest you're one of those who has risen to pretty rarefied heights without the common sense that God gave a goat...to use your own words.

[StanandJim]

2 hours ago, njhorseman said:

 

I have no dog in this particular fight, but it is the establishment of Guilt which requires an inquest.

Opinion is a different animal for which we all have differing thresholds for fact, proof and responsibility.

 

One cannot know how much information has or has not filtered through to anyone else, so while your opinion on the incident would be most welcome on this Message Board, your ad hoc criticism and denigration of others opinions seems unwarranted.

 

 

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, StanandJim said:

I have no dog in this particular fight, but it is the establishment of Guilt which requires an inquest.

Opinion is a different animal for which we all have differing thresholds for fact, proof and responsibility.

 

One cannot know how much information has or has not filtered through to anyone else, so while your opinion on the incident would be most welcome on this Message Board, your ad hoc criticism and denigration of others opinions seems unwarranted.

 

 

I don't express opinions about matters that require the discovery of important facts of which I am not in possession and require professional expertise I do not have. Anyone who expresses an opinion in such circumstances is at risk of making a total fool of themselves. You're free to participate if you wish.

 

If you want to ask me my opinion of the food in Red Ginger I'm quite willing to participate. (Hint: They ruin a perfectly good piece of fish by using that cloying sauce on the sea bass.) You see, that's an opinion.

 

Unfortunately somewhere in the Internet age many people have lost the ability to distinguish facts from opinions. What happened in Cozumel requires knowledge of the facts before one can draw a reasonable conclusion from those facts.

[RJB]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

I don't express opinions about matters that require the discovery of important facts of which I am not in possession and require professional expertise I do not have. Anyone who expresses an opinion in such circumstances is at risk of making a total fool of themselves. You're free to participate if you wish.

 

If you want to ask me my opinion of the food in Red Ginger I'm quite willing to participate. (Hint: They ruin a perfectly good piece of fish by using that cloying sauce on the sea bass.) You see, that's an opinion.

 

Unfortunately somewhere in the Internet age many people have lost the ability to distinguish facts from opinions. What happened in Cozumel requires knowledge of the facts before one can draw a reasonable conclusion from those facts.

Agree except for the Sea Bass which we love.  Just our opinion. 

[clo]

Why is this on the Oceania board?

[RJB]

35 minutes ago, clo said:

Why is this on the Oceania board?

Why not?   Gives us something else to discuss.  

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, RJB said:

Agree except for the Sea Bass which we love.  Just our opinion. 

And that is the essence of an opinion...your tastes are different than mine and that's perfectly OK !

[1985rz1]

2 hours ago, clo said:

Why is this on the Oceania board?

 

1 hour ago, RJB said:

Why not?   Gives us something else to discuss.  

 

 Inquiring minds want to know 😉

Edited December 23, 2019 by 1985rz1

[Toranut97]

2 hours ago, clo said:

Why is this on the Oceania board?

I started the thread. I recall other occasions when non-O specific news items (cruising related) were raised here. Having called at Cozumel (as have many here) I remember the port as being filled with ships, wondered if perhaps that contributed to the accident. But generally I just found it interesting and thought others might, also.
 

Not sure that meets your standards for posting. Sorry/not sorry.

 

Donna

[Mura]

I have no problem with the Carnival situation being discussed here ... any more than I did with the Viking incident in Norway some months ago.  That interested me enough to sign up for the Viking thread (on their message board) as well.

 

We should all be interested in "problems" that happen in the cruise world ... my opinion, not fact ... 😊

 

 

 

[Classiccruiser777]

22 hours ago, njhorseman said:

 

Yes, I'm sure the two of you sitting at your computers thousands of miles away from the accident site and with absolutely zero firsthand knowledge of what happened hit the nail on the head. I'm sure you're both fully licensed masters who are qualified to command cruise ships with 6 thousand souls on board and you probably have years of experience as harbor pilots too. 

Or, just maybe, a former fully qualified Surface Warfare Officer in the US Navy....

[njhorseman]

24 minutes ago, Classiccruiser777 said:

Or, just maybe, a former fully qualified Surface Warfare Officer in the US Navy....

If you're a former naval officer it's all the more reason why you should know better than to draw a conclusion of "poor seamanship" while sitting at your computer in Seattle and having not one iota of firsthand knowledge . Were you on the bridge to observe the communications and decisions that transpired? Do you have precise information about wind and currents ? Do you know whether the ship had any mechanical issues that may have contributed to the accident?  You don't have any of that information. That's why professionals will conduct an investigation before deciding the cause(s) of the accident.

Edited December 24, 2019 by njhorseman

[Classiccruiser777]

15 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Do you have precise information about wind and currents ? Do you know whether the ship had any mechanical issues that may have contributed to the accident?  You don't have any of that information. That's why professionals will conduct an investigation before deciding the cause(s) of the accident.

“The Carnival Glory sustained damage to its Platinum Dining Room, but the company said none of the damage had compromised the ship's seaworthiness.” i.e., other than superficial damage there isn’t anything wrong with the ship. I also know how to “read the water” as well as how to compensate for a ship’s sail area. But who am I to argue with you... Heck, you know I’m in Seattle!

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, Classiccruiser777 said:

“The Carnival Glory sustained damage to its Platinum Dining Room, but the company said none of the damage had compromised the ship's seaworthiness.” i.e., other than superficial damage there isn’t anything wrong with the ship. I also know how to “read the water” as well as how to compensate for a ship’s sail area. But who am I to argue with you... Heck, you know I’m in Seattle!

 

  Please explain what the excerpt from the press release about the extent of the damage to the ship has to do with determining the cause of the accident? It's a description of the result of the accident, not the cause.

 

Yes, anyone anywhere in the world who watched one of the videos posted on the Internet could tell it was very windy. How does that prove that "poor seamanship" was the principal cause of the accident? Once again you have zero firsthand knowledge of all the factors that may have contributed to the accident. 

 

You say "poor seamanship" until the cows come home. I won't bother to continue disputing you. Bluster away.

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by njhorseman

[StanandJim]

21 hours ago, RJB said:

Why not?   Gives us something else to discuss.  

The "Why" is simple.

If every subject could be discussed  on every Board without restriction,  they would become so generic that nobody would bother reading them.

Hence, they are divided by topic.

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by StanandJim

[RJB]

19 hours ago, Classiccruiser777 said:

Or, just maybe, a former fully qualified Surface Warfare Officer in the US Navy....

Thank you for your service.  

[ChappChapp]

As to why this is being discussed on the Oceania board.....Just wait a few hours I am sure it will morph into a dress code discussion. LOL