Britain's biggest cruise operator is becoming 'Butlins on Sea', Which? survey finds (today's Telegraph)

[Harry Peterson]

Interesting story in today's Telegraph:

 

One of Britain's largest cruise operators has been likened by passengers to "Butlins on sea" amid claims the company has gone "downmarket", according to a new survey.

Customers who have repeatedly travelled with P&O Cruises told Which? that its "unrivaled" standards had slipped in its annual survey published on Monday.

 

The company received a two-star rating for "social atmosphere", the joint lowest score out of 20 liners surveyed, with passengers describing the ship's pool areas as "overrun" and "a nightmare".

 

In the most damning criticism, travellers said the liner had become a "downmarket company, priced accordingly" and was akin to "Butlins on sea". A P&O Cruises spokesman said the company was "relentless" in its efforts to improve the experience for guests.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/27/britains-biggest-cruise-operator-becoming-butlins-sea-survey/

 

I wonder how far Carnival plan to take this, but when you get comments like this from Which? it does explain the changing nature of P&O Cruises:

 

Should I book with P&O Cruises?

No. It may be cheap but it’s not cheerful. Swap the familiar mediocrity of P&O for better-rated, lesser-known alternatives.

 

 

[AndyMichelle]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

Interesting story in today's Telegraph:

 

One of Britain's largest cruise operators has been likened by passengers to "Butlins on sea" amid claims the company has gone "downmarket", according to a new survey.

Customers who have repeatedly travelled with P&O Cruises told Which? that its "unrivaled" standards had slipped in its annual survey published on Monday.

 

The company received a two-star rating for "social atmosphere", the joint lowest score out of 20 liners surveyed, with passengers describing the ship's pool areas as "overrun" and "a nightmare".

 

In the most damning criticism, travellers said the liner had become a "downmarket company, priced accordingly" and was akin to "Butlins on sea". A P&O Cruises spokesman said the company was "relentless" in its efforts to improve the experience for guests.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/27/britains-biggest-cruise-operator-becoming-butlins-sea-survey/

 

I wonder how far Carnival plan to take this, but when you get comments like this from Which? it does explain the changing nature of P&O Cruises:

 

Should I book with P&O Cruises?

No. It may be cheap but it’s not cheerful. Swap the familiar mediocrity of P&O for better-rated, lesser-known alternatives.

 

 

When did they survey you Harry😊

I still love it and find P&O great value. 

Does the water slides etc from their competitors not make them more Butlins? 

I understand standards have slipped and its not what it used to be, but so have the prices. 

I must be one of these 'downmarket' passengers they talk about. 

Andy 

[dorsetlad]

Me too.😎

[Harry Peterson]

15 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

When did they survey you Harry😊

I still love it and find P&O great value. 

Does the water slides etc from their competitors not make them more Butlins? 

I understand standards have slipped and its not what it used to be, but so have the prices. 

I must be one of these 'downmarket' passengers they talk about. 

Andy 

It's cheap and cheerful, Andy!  But those P&O cutbacks are starting to attract attention from the media.

[bee-ess]

I don't think that any of us are under any illusion - P&O standards have slipped we all know that. and is a long way from the product in 2000 when we started with them.

At the end of the day, the product suits us and fit's our purse. We briefly moved away from P&O a few year ago but came back because frankly, the price of both the cruise and on board spend suits us and we know exactly what to expect. We judged Celebrity to be a superior product to P&O but with exchange rates, tips and very expensive drinks on board the prices between the 2 products increased significantly and we like to cruise 2-3 times a year and for that reason we have returned to P&O (at least until end of 2021).

Edited January 27, 2020 by bee-ess

[wowzz]

The "Which" sample is so small, and is also self-selected, that the actual results are statistically invalid.

The advice to swap to a swap to a "better rated" alternative is just plain stupid  - they do not suggest which alternative is available at the same price as P&O. 

I would love to cruise exclusively with Viking, but my bank balance says otherwise.

Of course P&O standards are not what they were, but neither are the prices 

 

[AndyMichelle]

21 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

I don't think that any of us are under any illusion - P&O standards have slipped we all know that. and is a long way from the product in 2000 when we started with them.

At the end of the day, the product suits us and fit's our purse. We briefly moved away from P&O a few year ago but came back because frankly, the price of both the cruise and on board spend suits us and we know exactly what to expect. We judged Celebrity to be a superior product to P&O but with exchange rates, tips and very expensive drinks on board the prices between the 2 products increased significantly and we like to cruise 2-3 times a year and for that reason we have returned to P&O (at least until end of 2021).

Our thoughts exactly. 

We often talk about looking at other lines but to get an improvement, the price does jump drastically. 

We couldn't afford 3+ cruises a year on any of the so called better lines.. 

We still encounter fantastic co passengers from all walks of life, so haven't found it the 'scum fest' that others imply. 

Andy 

[Britboys]

Firstly, from the article there is no indication of the survey size.  As Wowzz indicates, it is a closed survey to Which? members and I accept I am making a massive assumption but I get the feeling their members would mainly fit into a very 'middle class' social background.  I love shopping at John Lewis - but I am also very happy to use Poundsaver or Savers when I can get the same product a lot cheaper.

Secondly, I find it interesting that P&O are considered 'equal' to both Royal Caribbean and Marella.  Three products which are actually really quite different.

From a personal perspective, I am interested to see how I feel about P&O when I return to the company later this year after a two and a half year break from them (apart from a 4-night long weekender) and three cruises on three other lines.

[davecttr]

Marella will be having a laugh over this, they have been  accused of being Butlins at sea many times.

 

Of course Carnival are squeezing P&O. The fall in the value of the pound means the dollar cash flow from P&O fell and so did Carnivals profit. So they implemented a rolling programme of money saving measures.

 

Competition is fierce, expect more of the same.

[AndyMichelle]

8 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Firstly, from the article there is no indication of the survey size.  As Wowzz indicates, it is a closed survey to Which? members and I accept I am making a massive assumption but I get the feeling their members would mainly fit into a very 'middle class' social background.  I love shopping at John Lewis - but I am also very happy to use Poundsaver or Savers when I can get the same product a lot cheaper.

Secondly, I find it interesting that P&O are considered 'equal' to both Royal Caribbean and Marella.  Three products which are actually really quite different.

From a personal perspective, I am interested to see how I feel about P&O when I return to the company later this year after a two and a half year break from them (apart from a 4-night long weekender) and three cruises on three other lines.

It will be interesting to hear your findings to see how far you think P&O have slipped... 

I like where it sits in the market as it suits me, but I haven't experienced much else, so totally respect your opinion. 

Andy 

[davecttr]

20 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Firstly, from the article there is no indication of the survey size.  As Wowzz indicates, it is a closed survey to Which? members and I accept I am making a massive assumption but I get the feeling their members would mainly fit into a very 'middle class' social background.  I love shopping at John Lewis - but I am also very happy to use Poundsaver or Savers when I can get the same product a lot cheaper.

Secondly, I find it interesting that P&O are considered 'equal' to both Royal Caribbean and Marella.  Three products which are actually really quite different.

From a personal perspective, I am interested to see how I feel about P&O when I return to the company later this year after a two and a half year break from them (apart from a 4-night long weekender) and three cruises on three other lines.

I have not tried RC but in my experience P&O and Marella have more similarities than differences. The main difference being the level of formality

 

ps - my next cruise is Marella followed by two on P&O, currently 22 P&O and 25 Marella

Edited January 27, 2020 by davecttr

[AndyMichelle]

7 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Competition is fierce, expect more of the same.

Exactly... 

So do we need these little bits of luxury that have now gone or do we need competetive prices?? 

We got what we wanted in exchange when the tips went, something had to give.. 

Andy 

[beachmad123]

We need a little of both, it's a fine balance for them they need to appeal to such a wide range of people. So naturally they will attract various types of people.  For me its lovely to order your breakfast delivered to your room only did it three times but I would like them to keep that bit of luxury 

 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

The "Which" sample is so small, and is also self-selected, that the actual results are statistically invalid.

The advice to swap to a swap to a "better rated" alternative is just plain stupid  - they do not suggest which alternative is available at the same price as P&O. 

I would love to cruise exclusively with Viking, but my bank balance says otherwise.

Of course P&O standards are not what they were, but neither are the prices 

 

On another forum a which contributor says that the numbers were 68, and of course all which members, so hardly a large enough sensible cross section of the regular P&O cruisers.  But then the Telegraph, just like the Mail is not renowned for fair reporting.

[beachmad123]

Also on the observation that the pools are overrun its actually a common complaint for any type of holiday especially in summer. Even getting to the beach in good weather is a nightmare because of to many people trying to do the same thing. We often camp abroad out of season and find it brilliant however read the reviews of the campsites in July August there normally not so good because everything is at full capacity and pool overcrowding is normally the top complaint during these months 

[awmartin]

We are veritably new comers to cruising only done 8 since 2012 all on  P& 0 so I  am interested to know what major changes have been taking place. I know the sweets and the flower have gone from the cabin and the silver service from the MDR  and the gratuities have gone but I can’t think of anything major that has affected us personally. Would be good to know what we have missed.

[grapau27]

2 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

Our thoughts exactly. 

We often talk about looking at other lines but to get an improvement, the price does jump drastically. 

We couldn't afford 3+ cruises a year on any of the so called better lines.. 

We still encounter fantastic co passengers from all walks of life, so haven't found it the 'scum fest' that others imply. 

Andy 

Almost 100% compliance on formal night dress code suggests different to what which say 

[Daftlad]

40 minutes ago, awmartin said:

We are veritably new comers to cruising only done 8 since 2012 all on  P& 0 so I  am interested to know what major changes have been taking place. I know the sweets and the flower have gone from the cabin and the silver service from the MDR  and the gratuities have gone but I can’t think of anything major that has affected us personally. Would be good to know what we have missed.

We've used P&O exclusively for the past 20 years with one exception when we tried Costa. 

To answer your question about what you may have missed, the most notable one for me at least, is within the main restaurants. 

The serving of your vegetables came at the table and not presented to you along with your choice of meat or fish. There seemed to be a bit more "theatre" then compared to now.

We continue to book with P&O as during the past 20 years or so, I suppose we have just "moved with the times"

[Tom Baker]

2500 surveyed is hardly a broad section of the cruising community. I guess that half of those surveyed haven't tried most of the lines they were questioned on.

 

The one thing I take away from this "survey" is the more you pay the better perceived the experience.

 

I have sailed with 11 cruise lines in the last 18 years, P&O is the one I keep going back to mainly because they sail from Southampton. Others have been better some have been a lot worse.

[Daftlad]

I've just done a "back of a fag packet" calculation to try and demonstrate how prices have drastically been reduced over the years for cruise packages with P&O. 

Here goes.....

In 2003 we had our first fly cruise to the Caribbean. We booked at the Holiday Hypermarket.

The cost for the two of us was in the region of £3500. In the current P&O brochure I could get an almost  similar holiday for £3400. A quick comparison of what £3500 in 2003 would be worth today I'm seeing £5100.

It maybe explains why the saying, you get what you pay for, cones to mind.

[Omega1]

The Which? survey is practically meaningless given the small sample from a very narrow demographic. The abiding message I get is that people who sail on MSC with Viking expectations are going to be disappointed. The methodology of the Which? survey got a panning from cruise industry bodies last year - it’s not their best piece of work.

There’s a cruise line for everyone with a price to suit.

Now, will my new Fiat be as good as the wonderful  Mercedes I had?

Edited January 27, 2020 by Omega1

[jeanlyon]

I have noticed changes since we started cruising some 12 years ago, none of which bother me.  As long as my cabin is clean, the food is reasonable, I don't need all these added extra.  We normally have a great time and enjoy the ship.  We used to do excursions, we don't do those any more, preferring to DIY.  Prices in general have come down, especially as we book on launch.  One of my future cruises is now £500 pp more than we paid.

 

Having said that we only sail on Aurora or Arcadia, and having found Azura very crowded and not to our taste, I can only imagine what the big ones are like.

[crompton21]

On the point of perception being very good at influencing our opinions, I wonder how many people would be voting (or travelling) Viking had the Viking sky incident turned out as badly as it could have.  The Norwegian accident investigation report highlights the ship coming only a ship length from disaster and confirms that the loss of engine power was because the lubricating oil was maintained at 28-40% capacity whilst the recommended level was 68-70%.

That information concerns my judgement on whether I would cruise with Viking far more than many other factors, sensationalist surveys from a company trying to get subscribers being somewhere at the bottom of my list. 

To add a P&O slant to this, the number of fires on R8 class ships prevented me from sailing on Adonia (Adonia was one of the class) as I felt there was a statistical risk that wasn't there on any of the other P&O ships.  There were three significant fires on three of the R8 class within a five year period.  I probably do too much research.... 

 

[AndyMichelle]

2 minutes ago, crompton21 said:

On the point of perception being very good at influencing our opinions, I wonder how many people would be voting (or travelling) Viking had the Viking sky incident turned out as badly as it could have.  The Norwegian accident investigation report highlights the ship coming only a ship length from disaster and confirms that the loss of engine power was because the lubricating oil was maintained at 28-40% capacity whilst the recommended level was 68-70%.

That information concerns my judgement on whether I would cruise with Viking far more than many other factors, sensationalist surveys from a company trying to get subscribers being somewhere at the bottom of my list. 

To add a P&O slant to this, the number of fires on R8 class ships prevented me from sailing on Adonia (Adonia was one of the class) as I felt there was a statistical risk that wasn't there on any of the other P&O ships.  There were three significant fires on three of the R8 class within a five year period.  I probably do too much research.... 

 

No such thing as too much research if that's what you need. 

I don't mind a bit of the unknown, but not too much. 

Andy 

[Cahpek]

7 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Interesting story in today's Telegraph:

 

One of Britain's largest cruise operators has been likened by passengers to "Butlins on sea" amid claims the company has gone "downmarket", according to a new survey.

Customers who have repeatedly travelled with P&O Cruises told Which? that its "unrivaled" standards had slipped in its annual survey published on Monday.

 

The company received a two-star rating for "social atmosphere", the joint lowest score out of 20 liners surveyed, with passengers describing the ship's pool areas as "overrun" and "a nightmare".

 

In the most damning criticism, travellers said the liner had become a "downmarket company, priced accordingly" and was akin to "Butlins on sea". A P&O Cruises spokesman said the company was "relentless" in its efforts to improve the experience for guests.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/27/britains-biggest-cruise-operator-becoming-butlins-sea-survey/

 

I wonder how far Carnival plan to take this, but when you get comments like this from Which? it does explain the changing nature of P&O Cruises:

 

Should I book with P&O Cruises?

No. It may be cheap but it’s not cheerful. Swap the familiar mediocrity of P&O for better-rated, lesser-known alternatives.

 

 

 

I find the survey interesting but like anything, one has to take it with a pinch of salt.

The size of the survey in question may be relatively small, so how truly representative or reliable is that of the views of the majority of the cruise traveling market, you may ask.

From my two cruises with P&O, I have to say that the first cruise, on the Aurora (from Rio de Janeiro to Valparaiso), it was good and the standard of food on board was so much better than on the Ventura, a cruise which I took (about a year or so?) later to the Canaries. 

The food experience for me on the Ventura was so poor that out of 12 cruises I have been on, that was the ONLY CRUISE when I had LOST WEIGHT after taking the cruise! I tried to look on the bright side, and said to myself, that at least, I did not have to go on a diet after taking that cruise!!! But seriously, now, I would avoid Ventura like anything, even if the cruise price is low.

While on the Ventura, I met the Maitre D' who whom I'd known on the previous cruise with me on the Aurora. I asked her why the quality of catering  has became so poor? She mumbled something about cost cutting and a lot of food was pre cooked in factories on land and brought on board. Whether how much of that was true or not, I do not know.

 

Is that representative of the experience you will get on the entire fleet of ships? I do not know. I think you will have to cruise on board all their liners to know that.

 

As some cruisers have indicated, their fares are still quite competitive. So, I guess you get what you pay for. If you know what to expect, at least, you will probably not be so disappointed.

 

However, if you are a "foodie" and expect "luxury" and fine cuisine on P&O, please find out more before you book. Don't just get influenced by their adverts, especially on TV!

 

Give the cruise line credit where it is due, P&O cruises fares now include gratuities, and I found their prices, both for drinks and excursions are very reasonable compared to some of the other cruise lines.

 

There you are, I have said my ten cents' worth.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Cahpek