Britain's biggest cruise operator is becoming 'Butlins on Sea', Which? survey finds (today's Telegraph)

[AndyMichelle]

12 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

I'm beginning to wonder if our problems have more to do with Ventura and Azura (our usuals) than P&O in general..........

I would say so Harry, we will happily go on any of the P&O ships, but treat them as completely different holidays. 

Andy 

[AndyMichelle]

28 minutes ago, wowzz said:

But, yet again, the price differential between the two makes any meaningful comparison impossible.

The point is, for £30 a night, the Travelodge experience is reasonable value for money. In fact, you could argue, that whilst most Radissons are very nice, they are probably 4 or 5 times more expensive than a Travelodge - is staying in a Radisson 4 times better than staying in a Travelodge? Possibly,  but that is an individual choice, and it is ingenuous to complain that the Travelodge does not meet the standards of a Radisson.

As has been mentioned numerous times in this thread, it is all about perception and expectation.  When I stay in a Premier Inn or Travelodge I manage my expectations to match my expenditure,  the same as I do with P&O.   

Well said Wowzz. 

Champagne taste, beer money springs to mind. 

Andy 

[terrierjohn]

51 minutes ago, wowzz said:

But, yet again, the price differential between the two makes any meaningful comparison impossible.

The point is, for £30 a night, the Travelodge experience is reasonable value for money. In fact, you could argue, that whilst most Radissons are very nice, they are probably 4 or 5 times more expensive than a Travelodge - is staying in a Radisson 4 times better than staying in a Travelodge? Possibly,  but that is an individual choice, and it is ingenuous to complain that the Travelodge does not meet the standards of a Radisson.

As has been mentioned numerous times in this thread, it is all about perception and expectation.  When I stay in a Premier Inn or Travelodge I manage my expectations to match my expenditure,  the same as I do with P&O.   

We regularly use the airport Premier Inn for our pre cruise stay and TBH the clientelle are normally a cut above those I used to come across in 4 star business hotels.  Very well behaved children at breakfast and extremely friendly customers, of course most are there pre cruise or pre flight, so they are happily looking forward to their holiday.

I wonder if Harry's political discussions over dinner could be what causes his table companions to turn grouchy?🤔

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

 

Duplicate post

Edited January 28, 2020 by terrierjohn

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

 

Yet another DP???

Edited January 28, 2020 by terrierjohn

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, terrierjohn said:

We regularly use the airport Premier Inn for our pre cruise stay and TBH the clientelle are normally a cut above those I used to come across in 4 star business hotels.  Very well behaved children at breakfast and extremely friendly customers, of course most are there pre cruise or pre flight, so they are happily looking forward to their holiday.

I wonder if Harry's political discussions over dinner could be what causes his table companions to turn grouchy?🤔

We too are repeat PI customers. In the past, we would stay in a Hilton or Holiday Inn prior to going on holiday, but realised we were paying twice as much as PI for a product that was not twice as good. 

Stayed in a few Radisson hotels over the years - in the words of my Mum " all fur coat, no knickers!"

[Harry Peterson]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

But, yet again, the price differential between the two makes any meaningful comparison impossible.

The point is, for £30 a night, the Travelodge experience is reasonable value for money. In fact, you could argue, that whilst most Radissons are very nice, they are probably 4 or 5 times more expensive than a Travelodge - is staying in a Radisson 4 times better than staying in a Travelodge? Possibly,  but that is an individual choice, and it is ingenuous to complain that the Travelodge does not meet the standards of a Radisson.

As has been mentioned numerous times in this thread, it is all about perception and expectation.  When I stay in a Premier Inn or Travelodge I manage my expectations to match my expenditure,  the same as I do with P&O.   

And therein lies the problem.  You and I both know the limitations of P&O, and where it sits in the market. Others may not, believing the P&O luxury hype and imagining that it's the brand it used to be, and claims still to be.

[bee-ess]

13 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

And therein lies the problem.  You and I both know the limitations of P&O, and where it sits in the market. Others may not, believing the P&O luxury hype and imagining that it's the brand it used to be, and claims still to be.

Why does that bother you ? P&O are not the only company to 'over-egg' their advertising. As you say you know where P&O fit in the market so if you want to still cruise with them, then do so and if not then don't. Why try to put them down on here at every opportunity - most people who post on here have been on P&O before and are happy to accept P&O as they are,  but it is some people's 1st cruise on P&O and you are certainly putting a dampener on it for them.

[Eglesbrech]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

But, yet again, the price differential between the two makes any meaningful comparison impossible.

The point is, for £30 a night, the Travelodge experience is reasonable value for money. In fact, you could argue, that whilst most Radissons are very nice, they are probably 4 or 5 times more expensive than a Travelodge - is staying in a Radisson 4 times better than staying in a Travelodge? Possibly,  but that is an individual choice, and it is ingenuous to complain that the Travelodge does not meet the standards of a Radisson.

As has been mentioned numerous times in this thread, it is all about perception and expectation.  When I stay in a Premier Inn or Travelodge I manage my expectations to match my expenditure,  the same as I do with P&O.   

I think you are absolutely correct and that managing ones expectations is key here.
 

I don’t expect from P&O what I used to get as the prices are now so much lower. You can however use the saving on the fare to improve the experience onboard eg select restaurants, limelight etc.

 

What you can’t change unfortunately is the behaviour of the very small minority of other passengers, people who just don’t want to follow rules now:

 

- you are given a check in time, they just ignore it and come when they please

- you are can bring on 2 bottles, they sneak on more and get pie eyed filling their glass then going into public areas with their contraband booze

- the captain asks the able bodied to leave the lifts for those who need them after the drill, they positively run to barge to the front of the lift queue

- you know when you book there is a dress code, not for them they wear jeans and a T-shirt and get annoyed and make a fuss when they can’t get into the MDR on formal night

- sunbeds should not be reserved, tough they book theirs with a towel and a book before going on a trip in fact one in the sun and one in the shade. They then make a massive fuss if someone else uses the unoccupied bed.

- children should be supervised, not theirs, they run around knocking things over and play with the lifts while the parents sit at the sun / bar

- you should not fill your water bottle (covered in your saliva and bugs) at the water cooler, they just ignore the very large sign and go right ahead spreading their germs

 

I could rant on but the above gives a flavour and it does not even cover the basics of general good manners. Unfortunately if you get too many people who just ignore the rules on one particular voyage it can spoil it for other passengers. This perhaps explains the “ambiance” issues in the survey.

[terrierjohn]

9 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

And therein lies the problem.  You and I both know the limitations of P&O, and where it sits in the market. Others may not, believing the P&O luxury hype and imagining that it's the brand it used to be, and claims still to be.

I never sailed on P&O in its so called glory days so cannot make my own comparison, however there are some who still seem to (fondly) remember Canberra which I understand had shared bathrooms and nearly all bunk beds.  Now that certainly would not have appealed to me at all, even if all the waiters did touch their forelocks, and offered full silver service at dinner.

The extras that have been added to make the accommodation almost 5 star, even if the stateroom size does not compare with that in a similar hotel, plus all the other 21st century additions, more than make up for the missing forelocks and separate vegetables.  This is where P&O, and to be fair all cruise lines, have put their money and made cruising as popular as it is, and water slides and magic carpets apart, there are far more similarities between the mass market cruise lines than differences, and really it is this group of cruise lines that P&O should be compared with.

[AndyMichelle]

22 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

And therein lies the problem.  You and I both know the limitations of P&O, and where it sits in the market. Others may not, believing the P&O luxury hype and imagining that it's the brand it used to be, and claims still to be.

I agree Harry.

It is about managing your own expectations. 

If I got 2 quotes for similar itineraries etc with 2 different cruise companies, would I have the same expectations of both, despite a large difference in price, regardless of their marketing. 

I wouldn't, but others might. 

I still feel there is a certain amount of luxury involved to many of us though. 

I don't get dressed up and waited on every evening, get entertained and sip cocktails watching the sunset. 

Although Michelle does turn the bed down and put chocolates on my pillow and, of course, makes a little point at the end of the toilet roll... 😊

Andy 

 

 

[funinhounslow]

15 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

And therein lies the problem.  You and I both know the limitations of P&O, and where it sits in the market. Others may not, believing the P&O luxury hype and imagining that it's the brand it used to be, and claims still to be.

 

We've only been cruising on P&O for the past five years or so and have been very satisfied with what we received vs what we paid. 

 

I am not sure the "luxury hype" comment is fair - I think their adverts give a realistic impression of what you're going to get and I don't think you can accuse them of raising expectations unduly.

 

Comparing P&O now to the product 20 years ago is another matter. But put the price of the cruises back then into an inflation calculator and see what they would be now 😮  - if they are going to "keep a lid" on headline prices then something else is going to have to give. 

 

I actually don't think the "Butlins" comment is too far wide of the mark - when you consider things like the Sailaways for example. But they're easily avoided if they're not your thing (I don't go to them 😝 )

 

The obvious question for those who think P&O has drifted too far "downmarket" would be why not go with Cunard? The prices for Britannia cabins are broadly comparable to P&O and you'll have the all the formality you could wish for. Of course you'll have your pants pulled down every time you buy a drink or book an excursion (and blokes will have to wear a jacket every night) but you pays your money...

[Harry Peterson]

16 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

Why does that bother you ? P&O are not the only company to 'over-egg' their advertising. As you say you know where P&O fit in the market so if you want to still cruise with them, then do so and if not then don't. Why try to put them down on here at every opportunity - most people who post on here have been on P&O before and are happy to accept P&O as they are,  but it is some people's 1st cruise on P&O and you are certainly putting a dampener on it for them.

It's called managing expectations and making potential customers aware of the facts. Don't you think that's fair for anyone coming on here considering which company to book with?

 

It's also called balance, because even independent comment by concerns like Which? is always shot down in flames and attacked because people don't like seeing P&O criticised.

[Eglesbrech]

4 minutes ago, funinhounslow said:

 

We've only been cruising on P&O for the past five years or so and have been very satisfied with what we received vs what we paid. 

 

I am not sure the "luxury hype" comment is fair - I think their adverts give a realistic impression of what you're going to get and I don't think you can accuse them of raising expectations unduly.

 

Comparing P&O now to the product 20 years ago is another matter. But put the price of the cruises back then into an inflation calculator and see what they would be now 😮  - if they are going to "keep a lid" on headline prices then something else is going to have to give. 

 

I actually don't think the "Butlins" comment is too far wide of the mark - when you consider things like the Sailaways for example. But they're easily avoided if they're not your thing (I don't go to them 😝 )

 

The obvious question for those who think P&O has drifted too far "downmarket" would be why not go with Cunard? The prices for Britannia cabins are broadly comparable to P&O and you'll have the all the formality you could wish for. Of course you'll have your pants pulled down every time you buy a drink or book an excursion (and blokes will have to wear a jacket every night) but you pays your money...

Cunard is not what it used to be either but they still charge way over the odds for what is now a lesser product, even in the Grills. They have also changed the dress codes  to be slightly less formal. 
 

I imagine some people don’t like the “class” system on Cunard with no go areas for non grills passengers. Funnily enough Celebrity has introduced this across the fleet now as well with exclusive suite class areas.

 

A lot of people stick with P&O for the year round  ex UK departures.

 

Add to that the fact that many long term P&O passengers have the perks of having a high peninsular club status which they would lose if they moved on.

[bee-ess]

4 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

It's called managing expectations and making potential customers aware of the facts. Don't you think that's fair for anyone coming on here considering which company to book with?

 

It's also called balance, because even independent comment by concerns like Which? is always shot down in flames and attacked because people don't like seeing P&O criticised.

I don't understand why it is your mission to try to put people off P&O. You must trawl online looking for every bit of bad publicity you can find. If you don't want to cruise with P&O anymore because it is below standard, that is your decision which anyone would respect, but why to try to change everyone's opinion on here ?

[emam]

I have looked on P&O online, half a dozen youtube adverts, four mail shots, and various emails without finding the word luxury mentioned in them. I did however find the word a few pages into the main brochure. I would hardly call that advertising them as a luxury cruise line.

[mcloaked]

9 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Cunard is not what it used to be either but they still charge way over the odds for what is now a lesser product, even in the Grills. They have also changed the dress codes  to be slightly less formal. 
 

I imagine some people don’t like the “class” system on Cunard with no go areas for non grills passengers. Funnily enough Celebrity has introduced this across the fleet now as well with exclusive suite class areas.

 

A lot of people stick with P&O for the year round  ex UK departures.

 

Add to that the fact that many long term P&O passengers have the perks of having a high peninsular club status which they would lose if they moved on.

 

The perks of the Peninsular Club are not huge - and you have to have an awful lot of recent days at sea with P&O to get to the top level. The benefits of a huge outlay seem not be be commensurate with how much money you have to spend to get the status. My opinion only of course, and others may disagree!

[Vampiress88]

Love it how Harry is riling everyone up again. 
 

tried to look on the survey thing but I have to be a member which I’m not going to do. 
 

they still must have gotten more than 70% and I also think that they advertise basically what you get. 
 

id like to know what they have advertised that people think is luxury? 

[Vampiress88]

34 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

I think you are absolutely correct and that managing ones expectations is key here.
 

I don’t expect from P&O what I used to get as the prices are now so much lower. You can however use the saving on the fare to improve the experience onboard eg select restaurants, limelight etc.

 

What you can’t change unfortunately is the behaviour of the very small minority of other passengers, people who just don’t want to follow rules now:

 

- you are given a check in time, they just ignore it and come when they please

- you are can bring on 2 bottles, they sneak on more and get pie eyed filling their glass then going into public areas with their contraband booze

- the captain asks the able bodied to leave the lifts for those who need them after the drill, they positively run to barge to the front of the lift queue

- you know when you book there is a dress code, not for them they wear jeans and a T-shirt and get annoyed and make a fuss when they can’t get into the MDR on formal night

- sunbeds should not be reserved, tough they book theirs with a towel and a book before going on a trip in fact one in the sun and one in the shade. They then make a massive fuss if someone else uses the unoccupied bed.

- children should be supervised, not theirs, they run around knocking things over and play with the lifts while the parents sit at the sun / bar

- you should not fill your water bottle (covered in your saliva and bugs) at the water cooler, they just ignore the very large sign and go right ahead spreading their germs

 

I could rant on but the above gives a flavour and it does not even cover the basics of general good manners. Unfortunately if you get too many people who just ignore the rules on one particular voyage it can spoil it for other passengers. This perhaps explains the “ambiance” issues in the survey.

you realise you can find these kind of people anywhere and everywhere. 
 

I don’t think they are just frequenting p&o

[Josy1953]

42 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I never sailed on P&O in its so called glory days so cannot make my own comparison, however there are some who still seem to (fondly) remember Canberra which I understand had shared bathrooms and nearly all bunk beds.  Now that certainly would not have appealed to me at all, even if all the waiters did touch their forelocks, and offered full silver service at dinner.

The extras that have been added to make the accommodation almost 5 star, even if the stateroom size does not compare with that in a similar hotel, plus all the other 21st century additions, more than make up for the missing forelocks and separate vegetables.  This is where P&O, and to be fair all cruise lines, have put their money and made cruising as popular as it is, and water slides and magic carpets apart, there are far more similarities between the mass market cruise lines than differences, and really it is this group of cruise lines that P&O should be compared with.

Our first P&O cruise was on Canberra and we loved it but I would not want to go on it now.  We paid quite a premium to have a large outside cabin with a bathroom, far more than we pay today for a balcony cabin.  You are absolutely right about shared bathrooms, one of the couples on our table was in an inside cabin sharing a bathroom with 3 other cabins and because they were on a low deck they had to climb a ladder to come up one deck to where the stairs started.

 

I have to say that the entertainment was in my opinion better than we have today.

 

It was this cruise back in the 80s that got us hooked.

[AndyMichelle]

23 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

It's called managing expectations and making potential customers aware of the facts. Don't you think that's fair for anyone coming on here considering which company to book with?

 

It's also called balance, because even independent comment by concerns like Which? is always shot down in flames and attacked because people don't like seeing P&O criticised.

I don't mind P&O being criticised fairly at all and fully accept the Which? findings. 

But those of us that have had great experiences are expected to roll over and say 'actually, despite our great holidays, it must be crap because some people think so' . 

Andy 

 

[Eglesbrech]

28 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

you realise you can find these kind of people anywhere and everywhere. 
 

I don’t think they are just frequenting p&o

Yes I do but this is a P&O forum so I am discussing them and their effect on other P&O cruisers.

 

[Harry Peterson]

20 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

I don't understand why it is your mission to try to put people off P&O. You must trawl online looking for every bit of bad publicity you can find. If you don't want to cruise with P&O anymore because it is below standard, that is your decision which anyone would respect, but why to try to change everyone's opinion on here ?

No mission. The story happened to get a lot of publicity yesterday, and I saw it in the Telegraph, to which I happen to subscribe. There's no way on this earth that any of the regulars on here will ever change their minds, but a bit of occasional balance might present a fairer picture to newcomers.

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Eglesbrech said:

I think you are absolutely correct and that managing ones expectations is key here.
 

I don’t expect from P&O what I used to get as the prices are now so much lower. You can however use the saving on the fare to improve the experience onboard eg select restaurants, limelight etc.

 

What you can’t change unfortunately is the behaviour of the very small minority of other passengers, people who just don’t want to follow rules now:

 

- you are given a check in time, they just ignore it and come when they please

- you are can bring on 2 bottles, they sneak on more and get pie eyed filling their glass then going into public areas with their contraband booze

- the captain asks the able bodied to leave the lifts for those who need them after the drill, they positively run to barge to the front of the lift queue

- you know when you book there is a dress code, not for them they wear jeans and a T-shirt and get annoyed and make a fuss when they can’t get into the MDR on formal night

- sunbeds should not be reserved, tough they book theirs with a towel and a book before going on a trip in fact one in the sun and one in the shade. They then make a massive fuss if someone else uses the unoccupied bed.

- children should be supervised, not theirs, they run around knocking things over and play with the lifts while the parents sit at the sun / bar

- you should not fill your water bottle (covered in your saliva and bugs) at the water cooler, they just ignore the very large sign and go right ahead spreading their germs

 

I could rant on but the above gives a flavour and it does not even cover the basics of general good manners. Unfortunately if you get too many people who just ignore the rules on one particular voyage it can spoil it for other passengers. This perhaps explains the “ambiance” issues in the survey.

I don't see that P&O are any better or any worse than most other mainstream cruise lines. You get the same complaints about poor behaviour, dress code, rum runners etc  on the Carnival, Princess, NCL and other boards.  

Just implying that only P&O has disagreeable passengers is just wrong .

[Harry Peterson]

13 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I don't mind P&O being criticised fairly at all and fully accept the Which? findings. 

But those of us that have had great experiences are expected to roll over and say 'actually, despite our great holidays, it must be crap because some people think so' . 

Andy 

 

Not at all, Andy.  Nobody's asking you to change anything.  It's just the downright refusal by some to accept anything negative,  regardless of source, that amuses me. P&O is what it is - the trouble is that it's using a past reputation to sell itself, and that's probably the reason for the bad Which? review.