Britain's biggest cruise operator is becoming 'Butlins on Sea', Which? survey finds (today's Telegraph)

[AndyMichelle]

51 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

I'm with you Andy.

The only criticism I have with P&O is the lunchtime buffet but we often go into the dining room so it's not a problem.

Our next cruise is P&O and our last was Princess even though our high loyalty on RC gives us much better benefits.

We like P&O and no Which survey will change our minds.

 

P & O has plenty of niggles Graham and things we would like to see improved, but the overall package still suits plenty of us. 

Like Pauline and yourself, we don't feel any real loyalty to P&O and if we could get as good an offering from other companies, would like to try them, but, at the moment, we are fine thank you... 

Andy 

 

[AndyMichelle]

39 minutes ago, Les_ldh said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I’d rather judge from personal experience and based on that experience I think P&O offer excellent value for money, so I’ll keep coming back until my experiences tell me different.

Les.

Summed up perfectly Les. 

Andy 

[Eglesbrech]

Regardless of anyone’s opinion on the validity of the survey, the fairness and accuracy of the comments made in it etc it is not good publicity for P&O and not what they need in a newspaper during the peak booking month for holidays. 
 

I think P&O provide a fair (if now much more basic than in the past) product for the price they charge. The main issue imo is a mismatch between their advertising and the reality now experienced while onboard but as others have said no different to other holidays operators.

 

Joe public still think of cruising a “posh” but the reality is that it is now just a package holiday at sea and the rooms are smaller than in a hotel.

[DamianG]

Extracted from Which's website:

 

What makes a Which? Recommended Provider?   Which? Recommended Providers are the cream of the crop and the accolade is only given to cruise lines that achieve a customer score of 70% or above.
https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/cruise-lines/article/best-and-worst-cruise-lines

 

Given that P&O scored 71% that still makes it a recommended provider doesn't it?

 

Personally I'm not too bothered about how the newspaper articles have interpreted the results, they're just trying to sensationalize the results to create a story and make sales. We all know there's been cutbacks and I miss some things but not enough to stop cruising altogether (given that we couldn't afford any of the other cruise lines in August anyway). I would love to try a Viking cruise at a cost of circa £300 pppn x 3 but believe me my expectations would be through the roof.

 

I think criticism of P&O promoting itself as a luxury brand is somewhat fair but as others have said they're hardly going to sell themselves as a budget brand.

 

[mcloaked]

1 hour ago, Cahpek said:

 

Whether the survey is fair or not, if you look at the bright side (there's always a "silver lining" for everything, well, almost!), when/if P&O management reads who has been written about their cruise line in the newspapers, hopefully that would make them sit up and listen, and do something about it.

That may even  make them begin to look at the weak parts of the cruise line,  address them , and change for the better. No one is above improvement.

 

For example, maybe , just maybe, they may even  start improving the standard of food and cooking on board (hooray!). At the moment, each time I look at a P&O brochure, and wanted to cruise with them again, the thought of the last Ventura cruise where food for me was the WORST of any cruise I have been on, that really put me off. Perhaps, that's not fair. Perhaps I should give P&O another chance. If P&O senior management seriously look into improving their catering again, I will be one of the first to come back to their cruise line, pronto. (The thing is, P&O has a lot of good things, including of course, the friendly staff).

 

Meanwhile, it is with Viking, Holland America, Oceania, Princess, and others for me . That does no stop me from visiting the P&O discussion board on Cruisecritic, and I think everyone has the right to do that, not just present P&O cruisers and their supporters. I do not expect P&O to be of the same "luxury" standard as some  of some of the other more expensive lines, but lower fares is no excuse to have poor cooking . Not such expensive and exotic ingredients perhaps, but even simple cooking, if well prepared, can be delicious!!! 

 

This is clearly an issue that a number of people feel strongly about. It certainly is our experience that the P&O cruises we have been on in the past couple of years had some issues that we did not experience six years ago.  The last time we were on Britannia, the year before last, the menus were lacklustre and many evenings there weren't any dishes that leapt out as ones we definitely wanted to order. We are ballroom dancers and there were evenings when the ballroom was put to use as a quiz venue for the first half of the evening, when the pub nearby was perfectly suitable but not used for the quiz.  There were very loud times with quizzes and music in the main pool n deck.  P&O people we talked to were telling us they are trying to be 'more inclusive' and getting more people to enjoy the facilities on the ship, though we didn't ask specifically about the menus as that is subjective.  Perhaps they are trying to appeal to the larger 'market' ahead of launching the new ship. Maybe and perhaps they would rather fill their ships with larger numbers of passengers since larger numbers paying a bit less will bring in more income than servicing a smaller number of passengers paying a little more. 

 

There are other holiday options on land, and it remains to be  seen as to whether the more mass market that seems to be being attracted in will be sustainable, and whether the more traditional cruise passengers will continue to book if the product becomes increasingly less attractive to that group of people.  The American cruise market does seem to be flourishing and holding up against the trend of ever larger ships and the more boisterous activities on board.  The market that P&O, and Cunard, has had, until recently, has been aimed at a quieter passenger type who enjoys a traditional British cruise atmosphere.  Things are changing - look at the recent trend towards people being unwilling to adhere to formal dress codes - not all of course but an increasing minority who simply don't want to dress up on a cruise.  In restaurants on land, over the past twenty or more years the trend has been for ever larger portion sizes but not for more quality - of course there are still restaurants that go for a market where a diner wants top taste, and nice presentation, and doesn't mind paying more, but the majority of everyday eateries the focus is on quantity as the primary aim.  Long gone  at most restaurants is the plate with pretty presentation and plenty of space to cut up food and get it on a fork or spoon.  Long gone mostly is having a fish knife to cut your grilled fish, if you can find a restaurant that offers grilled fish now!   It is still the case in some cruises to be offered petits fours with coffee at the end of dinner.

 

Yes I bet P&O will see the Which report and whether they change much in response will be interesting to see in the coming year or two.

[Son of Anarchy]

5 hours ago, Vampiress88 said:

I like butlins. 
 

also the drinks are cheaper on p&o than they are at bultins. 

Never been to Butlins so can't comment on the first bit.

 

👍👍 re the drinks though!

[Vampiress88]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

Maybe because I'd like to see it improve, rather than deteriorate?  Maybe because it's still a company I'd consider if the 'right' cruise came along?  And maybe because as a Carnival shareholder I want to see it doing well.

 

Companies learn from customer feedback, and reports like this one from Which?.  Don't assume that criticism is bad - and my criticism is based on hard evidence.

I agree in that companies will learn from these things, and I know from your other comments that this was based on previous holidays for your criticism. 
 

The problem I find, as I talk with public in my job, is that 

 

“YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR”

 

don’t know how many times I have told my customers this. If you pay bottom prices then there is only a certain expectation you should have. 
 

The holiday should do as it says on the tin, give you exactly what it stated it would, be clean and if food then to a good standard. 
 

you wouldn’t walk into a local cafe and expect a mitchelin star chef qualify meal.
 

im not entirely sure how you can stop rowdy people. They can be anywhere and I’m sure not just found on certain cruise lines. What would you like them to do start pricing people out ? Cos that’s what would happen with me. I wouldn’t pay much more than I have now and we are most definitely not rowdy. I would think that p&o do there prices to get the rooms filled and since the majority of their ships go from Southampton that limits them to majority of the UK folk. 
 

also I know you say you’d come back to p&o if the right cruise came along. That means that the level of service can’t have been that terrible as I know I have had terrible service on holidays and if they gave it me for free I still wouldn’t go anywhere near. 
 

anywho 

 

p&o give me a good cheap little holiday, fair priced drinks, some entertainment I like, some new places to take the kids to see, ok ish food, clean room. I got exactly what I paid for. 

[Vampiress88]

22 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Never been to Butlins so can't comment on the first bit.

 

👍👍 re the drinks though!

I loved butlins. It’s the last place I got drunk actually but no I didn’t get rowdy just very bad singing. 
 

we used to go every year for the motorbike weekend. Was good. 
 

took the kids to the teletubbie one though maybe 3 years ago. I’d had brilliant service till Then. The room was crap, the food was awful and I’d paid way too much for it. It was £550 for 4 nights. This included all food but urgh. 
 

see now I’d never try it again. Especially since I got a cruise for double this price and got more out of it. 
 

not with the kids or the food included. Back to the basic room, self catering and the mcn weekend and I’d be straight back. 
 

cos I got what I paid for every time we went to that weekend but when I paid more and subsequently had high expectations that’s when I got let down. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Vampiress88

[AndyMichelle]

Something else to bear in mind is the vast differences between the ships in the P&O fleet. 

If you went on Aurora and expected Butlins, you would be bitterly disappointed. 

My hope would be that the brand actively splits and Aurora etc remain and improves as the quaint, slightly classier, more formal ships and the big new beauties cater for the passengers who want that type of thing. 

Andy 

Edited January 27, 2020 by AndyMichelle
Grammar

[Harry Peterson]

11 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

I agree in that companies will learn from these things, and I know from your other comments that this was based on previous holidays for your criticism. 
 

The problem I find, as I talk with public in my job, is that 

 

“YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR”

 

don’t know how many times I have told my customers this. If you pay bottom prices then there is only a certain expectation you should have. 
 

The holiday should do as it says on the tin, give you exactly what it stated it would, be clean and if food then to a good standard. 
 

you wouldn’t walk into a local cafe and expect a mitchelin star chef qualify meal.
 

im not entirely sure how you can stop rowdy people. They can be anywhere and I’m sure not just found on certain cruise lines. What would you like them to do start pricing people out ? Cos that’s what would happen with me. I wouldn’t pay much more than I have now and we are most definitely not rowdy. I would think that p&o do there prices to get the rooms filled and since the majority of their ships go from Southampton that limits them to majority of the UK folk. 
 

also I know you say you’d come back to p&o if the right cruise came along. That means that the level of service can’t have been that terrible as I know I have had terrible service on holidays and if they gave it me for free I still wouldn’t go anywhere near. 
 

anywho 

 

p&o give me a good cheap little holiday, fair priced drinks, some entertainment I like, some new places to take the kids to see, ok ish food, clean room. I got exactly what I paid for. 

I do agree with you.  You're exactly right - it's a case of getting what you pay for.  And there were some real positives about our last cruise with P&O - the food (funnily enough) and most of the service for example.

 

Things I didn't appreciate were dinner table conversations (several) that started with "I'm not racist but.....", and the extreme difficulties getting basic problems with the suite and the onboard services put right.

 

The problem with P&O is that it's marketing itself as something which it is no longer - and that's probably why those who responded to Which? marked it down.  You know what you're getting with Butlins, you know what you're getting with The Hoxton, but quite a few people obviously feel that P&O isn't giving them what they expected.

[Vampiress88]

7 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I do agree with you.  You're exactly right - it's a case of getting what you pay for.  And there were some real positives about our last cruise with P&O - the food (funnily enough) and most of the service for example.

 

Things I didn't appreciate were dinner table conversations (several) that started with "I'm not racist but.....", and the extreme difficulties getting basic problems with the suite and the onboard services put right.

 

The problem with P&O is that it's marketing itself as something which it is no longer - and that's probably why those who responded to Which? marked it down.  You know what you're getting with Butlins, you know what you're getting with The Hoxton, but quite a few people obviously feel that P&O isn't giving them what they expected.

not sure you can blame p&o for the dinner conversation. That’s usually to do with the people, even sometimes the age cos I know that sentence has popped out of a good number of older generation that I speak to. 
 

the suite issues, some of them were minor that I can remember and some of them with major. The minor things I could let go of but I would have expected compensation for the major ones you faced. 
I also find that with companies it’s not alway the “problem” that I take issue with it’s how they handle the problem for me. 

[AndyMichelle]

6 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Things I didn't appreciate were dinner table conversations (several) that started with "I'm not racist but.....", 

 

How are you so unlucky with your dining companions Harry and I am so blessed???

I have never heard anything along those lines from anybody we have been seated with, they have all had good manners and were respectful to us and the crew. 

I have overheard the odd rude comment towards staff in the buffet/bars, so know all passengers are not angels, but most are decent people. 

You make it sound like the ship is full of neanderthal.. 

Andy 

 

[AndyMichelle]

5 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

not sure you can blame p&o for the dinner conversation. That’s usually to do with the people, even sometimes the age cos I know that sentence has popped out of a good number of older generation that I speak to. 
 

the suite issues, some of them were minor that I can remember and some of them with major. The minor things I could let go of but I would have expected compensation for the major ones you faced. 
I also find that with companies it’s not alway the “problem” that I take issue with it’s how they handle the problem for me. 

I think you have missed Harry's point, it is the quality of passenger that P&O are now attracting he has an issue with, so he would blame them for the conversation... 

As for the generation thing, the only rude people I have seen on cruises tend to be elderly, well spoken people, the type that Harry wants the ships to be filled with... 

Andy 

[Harry Peterson]

10 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

How are you so unlucky with your dining companions Harry and I am so blessed???

I have never heard anything along those lines from anybody we have been seated with, they have all had good manners and were respectful to us and the crew. 

I have overheard the odd rude comment towards staff in the buffet/bars, so know all passengers are not angels, but most are decent people. 

You make it sound like the ship is full of neanderthal.. 

Andy 

 

They were not nice people, Andy, but it wasn't the crew or the staff they were having a go at.  The incidents (too strong a word, really, but it's wholly unacceptable) were Daily Mail/Express inspired attacks on some very hard working, often very highly educated, immigrants from Europe who happened not to be British.  These comments have become increasingly common, and some people now seem to think it's OK.  I don't.

 

As a complete aside, one of our recent Amazon drivers was a Kurd - lovely chap.  He proved to be a qualified doctor, taking what work he could to avoid having to claim benefits.  Many of the immigrants from Europe who are so abused by the ignorant over here are in the same category.

[Harry Peterson]

15 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I think you have missed Harry's point, it is the quality of passenger that P&O are now attracting he has an issue with, so he would blame them for the conversation... 

As for the generation thing, the only rude people I have seen on cruises tend to be elderly, well spoken people, the type that Harry wants the ships to be filled with... 

Andy 

Sorry, Andy - did I say that?   I'm not looking for elderly people, or even well spoken people - just people who aren't going to trot out press-inspired bile at the table because they like to feel superior to less fortunate people.

 

Can't see you and Michelle behaving like that, and to be fair, most don't, but we have found the proportion to be increasing.

[Vampiress88]

2 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

They were not nice people, Andy, but it wasn't the crew or the staff they were having a go at.  The incidents (too strong a word, really, but it's wholly unacceptable) were Daily Mail/Express inspired attacks on some very hard working, often very highly educated, immigrants from Europe who happened not to be British.  These comments have become increasingly common, and some people now seem to think it's OK.  I don't.

 

As a complete aside, one of our recent Amazon drivers was a Kurd - lovely chap.  He proved to be a qualified doctor, taking what work he could to avoid having to claim benefits.  Many of the immigrants from Europe who are so abused by the ignorant over here are in the same category.

 

But how is that p&o’s cliantel? 
 

cos what we are really saying is that p&o shouldn’t have the prices low so as not to attract the “riff raff”

say we price people out and make it so that only the middle to upper class can go do you really think you’d not meet these kinds of people? 
 

saying that in this “incident” what kind of people were they? 
 

it amazes me how judgement comes so quickly sometimes. 
I 

[AndyMichelle]

5 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

They were not nice people, Andy, but it wasn't the crew or the staff they were having a go at.  The incidents (too strong a word, really, but it's wholly unacceptable) were Daily Mail/Express inspired attacks on some very hard working, often very highly educated, immigrants from Europe who happened not to be British.  These comments have become increasingly common, and some people now seem to think it's OK.  I don't.

 

As a complete aside, one of our recent Amazon drivers was a Kurd - lovely chap.  He proved to be a qualified doctor, taking what work he could to avoid having to claim benefits.  Many of the immigrants from Europe who are so abused by the ignorant over here are in the same category.

Sorry you had to listen to that Harry, I would have been furious. 

Again, I feel very blessed to have been able to cruise and meet so many decent people ranging from a Mayoress and Politician to warehouse workers, they have all been a delight. 

Andy 

[Elaine0138]

5 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I personally have not seen any rowdy scenes or pushing and shouting in the lift... 

Yes, things have changed, but it is still good value for money with mostly civilised people. 

Andy 

 

On one of our Ventura TA cruises things got quite heated a couple of times there was a fight over sunbeds one day that left 2 ladies walking around with black eyes, and a very vocal argument with very choice language round the pool another day.  Actually that was our last P&O cruise, so hoping for something a bit more refined on Aurora 😏

[Vampiress88]

2 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Sorry, Andy - did I say that?   I'm not looking for elderly people, or even well spoken people - just people who aren't going to trot out press-inspired bile at the table because they like to feel superior to less fortunate people.

 

Can't see you and Michelle behaving like that, and to be fair, most don't, but we have found the proportion to be increasing.

This is the question. 
 

what type of people would you like to cruise with who don’t “Trot our bile”

 

im not sure how p&o could screen for that really when taking bookings. 
 

to be honest you wanted to sit with people you don’t know which then leaves you open to people you might not like. 
 

this is why I sit with my family, better the devil I know. 

[AndyMichelle]

3 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Sorry, Andy - did I say that?   I'm not looking for elderly people, or even well spoken people - just people who aren't going to trot out press-inspired bile at the table because they like to feel superior to less fortunate people.

 

Can't see you and Michelle behaving like that, and to be fair, most don't, but we have found the proportion to be increasing.

Sorry Harry, that was a bit unfair. 

Apologies. 

Andy 

[Vampiress88]

1 minute ago, Elaine0138 said:

On one of our Ventura TA cruises things got quite heated a couple of times there was a fight over sunbeds one day that left 2 ladies walking around with black eyes, and a very vocal argument with very choice language round the pool another day.  Actually that was our last P&O cruise, so hoping for something a bit more refined on Aurora 😏

so two ladies that were the issue. 
 

are we saying these were lower class people? 
 

why would aurora be more refined over ventura? Surely the only difference is it’s adult only 

[AndyMichelle]

1 minute ago, Elaine0138 said:

On one of our Ventura TA cruises things got quite heated a couple of times there was a fight over sunbeds one day that left 2 ladies walking around with black eyes, and a very vocal argument with very choice language round the pool another day.  Actually that was our last P&O cruise, so hoping for something a bit more refined on Aurora 😏

Wow... 

We can all only speak as we find, but I have never seen anything like this. 

Have only been on Ventura twice and it wouldn't be our first choice, but I still didn't see any bad behaviour. 

Aurora is a totally different experience. 

Andy 

[AndyMichelle]

2 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

so two ladies that were the issue. 
 

are we saying these were lower class people? 
 

why would aurora be more refined over ventura? Surely the only difference is it’s adult only 

Aurora is a completely different type of holiday to Ventura in my experience.

It is never as busy for one, so hardly any queuing with lots of quiet places which leads to a much more relaxed atmosphere for passengers and staff. 

We sailed on her before and after she became adult only and the experience was the same. 

Andy 

 

[Omega1]

I can only recall one incident of poor behaviour (alcohol fuelled) in 45 (ish) cruises across six different cruise lines. We must be very lucky because we’ve mostly met polite, engaging people from all over the world.

[Harry Peterson]

1 minute ago, AndyMichelle said:

Aurora is a completely different type of holiday to Ventura in my experience.

It is never as busy for one, so hardly any queuing with lots of quiet places which leads to a much more relaxed atmosphere for passengers and staff. 

We sailed on her before and after she became adult only and the experience was the same. 

Andy 

 

I'm beginning to wonder if our problems have more to do with Ventura and Azura (our usuals) than P&O in general..........