Britain's biggest cruise operator is becoming 'Butlins on Sea', Which? survey finds (today's Telegraph)

[Josy1953]

12 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

We were on Princess in November and got our Elite 10% discount off everything.

I agree we get our discount from day 1 on Princess but with P&O we have to use up OBC first.  Personally my favourite perk on Princess is getting my laundry done for free, I bring very little home for washing and last year I even sent my husband's dinner suit to be cleaned after the last formal night.

[Omega1]

6 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

I agree we get our discount from day 1 on Princess but with P&O we have to use up OBC first.  Personally my favourite perk on Princess is getting my laundry done for free, I bring very little home for washing and last year I even sent my husband's dinner suit to be cleaned after the last formal night.

....and the cabin bar set up!😂

[terrierjohn]

23 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

We were on Princess in November and got our Elite 10% discount off everything.

But not off drinks and speciality dining I believe?

Mind you we must be cheap skates because our on board account, after allowing for the OBC including shareholder, is rarely large enough to appreciate the 10% discount.

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

But not off drinks and speciality dining I believe?

Mind you we must be cheap skates because our on board account, after allowing for the OBC including shareholder, is rarely large enough to appreciate the 10% discount.

Good point.

Definitely not off drinks.

On RC we use the speciality restaurants a lot but the food on Grand Princess anytime dining was excellent so  don't know if the discount is off the speciality restaurants because we never tried them.

Edited January 28, 2020 by grapau27

[Josy1953]

1 hour ago, Omega1 said:

....and the cabin bar set up!😂

The cabin bar setup is definite my husband's favourite perk.😂😂

[Deeliteful]

My first ever cruise was on P&O, the Oriana in 2000.

Since then I have cruised with Cunard, Fred Olsen, RCL, Celebrity, Princess, NCL and Azamara.

Apart from Fred Olsen, I would cruise any of these lines again. A cruise (indeed any holiday) is what you make it and I’ve never had a bad one (even on old Fred).

But I have said it before, some, P&O passengers love a good moan, more so imo than on any other line.

Ignore them, enjoy your cruises and thank God you can afford these treats (all this talk about how cheap P&O are forget how much us solo cruisers have to pay!)

Life is too short. Enjoy every day whilst you can.

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Deeliteful

[phillipahain]

Without doubt Solo Cruisers are being ripped off 

 

However the extreme penny pinching and exceptionally poor maintenance issues that are very very apparent on Arcadia right now are causing plenty of upset passengers and staff alike ...staff are actively looking to work for other lines .....i could not believe that even wire hangers are in desperately short supply so that my cabin steward garded every one he could find 

They were even Bunkering all evening right up to midnight last night without a thought for passenger disturbance yet the ship was in port all day yesterday and today !!     Guess they get a cheap deal on out of hours bunkering too ?

[Deeliteful]

Bunkering?

[Eglesbrech]

22 minutes ago, Deeliteful said:

Bunkering?

Re- fuelling the ship.

[Hobson1754]

We’ve just returned from our first P & O cruise on Britannia and had such a good time we booked another Caribbean cruise whilst on board for next January, but this time on Azura. Having followed this post I’ve been contemplating why we had such a good time and have come to the conclusion that it was because our expectations at the start of the cruise weren’t too high.  This was due in part because I’ve been following this forum for a while and saw a very wide mix of opinions including quite a few negative ones.  Having previously cruised with Celebrity (mostly), RCL and Holland America I can most definitely say that we found this cruise excellent value for money.  Yes, there were some aspects that weren’t to our taste e.g. Buffet and one of the bars, so we just didn’t use them.  We met some lovely people, had some good food, ok maybe not Michelin star, but good and reasonable priced drinks.  As I said great value for money and the deal breaker for us is that next year we’ll be flying from our local North East airport. 

 

[terrierjohn]

40 minutes ago, Hobson1754 said:

We’ve just returned from our first P & O cruise on Britannia and had such a good time we booked another Caribbean cruise whilst on board for next January, but this time on Azura. Having followed this post I’ve been contemplating why we had such a good time and have come to the conclusion that it was because our expectations at the start of the cruise weren’t too high.  This was due in part because I’ve been following this forum for a while and saw a very wide mix of opinions including quite a few negative ones.  Having previously cruised with Celebrity (mostly), RCL and Holland America I can most definitely say that we found this cruise excellent value for money.  Yes, there were some aspects that weren’t to our taste e.g. Buffet and one of the bars, so we just didn’t use them.  We met some lovely people, had some good food, ok maybe not Michelin star, but good and reasonable priced drinks.  As I said great value for money and the deal breaker for us is that next year we’ll be flying from our local North East airport. 

 

I agree with you, but if you go with the expectation of being miserable, then you probably will be.

Edited January 28, 2020 by terrierjohn

[P&O SUE]

A most interesting discussion! I'm just going to say I've been cruising with P&O since 2012 and the only time I saw rowdy passengers was last year on a Princess ship!!

[P&O SUE]

9 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I agree with you, but if you go with the expectation of being miserable, then you probably will be.

 

Yes, I always go with the mindset I'm going to enjoy myself so I do!

Before my first cruise I read reviews and got a bit nervous - after I read reviews of the cruise I was on and didn't recognise it as the same one!

I'm not a fan of bingo so I avoid it. I know the sailaways are cheesey but I just go  along for the happy atmosphere - if I didn't like it there are plenty of spaces to avoid it. We try not to go in the buffet at midday - etc etc

[Solent Richard]

10 hours ago, Hobson1754 said:

We’ve just returned from our first P & O cruise on Britannia and had such a good time we booked another Caribbean cruise whilst on board for next January, but this time on Azura. Having followed this post I’ve been contemplating why we had such a good time and have come to the conclusion that it was because our expectations at the start of the cruise weren’t too high.  This was due in part because I’ve been following this forum for a while and saw a very wide mix of opinions including quite a few negative ones.  Having previously cruised with Celebrity (mostly), RCL and Holland America I can most definitely say that we found this cruise excellent value for money.  Yes, there were some aspects that weren’t to our taste e.g. Buffet and one of the bars, so we just didn’t use them.  We met some lovely people, had some good food, ok maybe not Michelin star, but good and reasonable priced drinks.  As I said great value for money and the deal breaker for us is that next year we’ll be flying from our local North East airport. 

 

 

That's a very good comment and I can agree with it all.

 

I have been cruising with P&O since 1998 doing at least one cruise with them a year, my last one was in September on Arcadia...

 

https://solentrichardscruiseblog.com/2019/10/28/arcadias-canadian-round-trip/

 

I do go with 'expectations' in the full knowledge I know what I am going to get with P&O, while I have differing expectations from my Cunard, Hapag-Lloyd, Seabourn and Celebrity  cruises.

 

It's a simple formula, I pay my money, make my choice and I'm determined to enjoy myself.

 

Welcome to the club.

 

 

[Solent Richard]

Just now, Solent Richard said:

 

That's a very good comment and I can agree with it all.

 

I have been cruising with P&O since 1998 doing at least one cruise with them a year, my last one was in September on Arcadia...

 

https://solentrichardscruiseblog.com/2019/10/28/arcadias-canadian-round-trip/

 

I do go with 'expectations' in the full knowledge I know what I am going to get with P&O, while I have differing expectations from my Cunard, Hapag-Lloyd, Seabourn and Celebrity  cruises.

 

It's a simple formula, I pay my money, make my choice and I'm determined to enjoy myself.

 

Welcome to the club.

 

 

 

PS. Over the years I have found that anything to do with a 'Which' report should be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

They are a commercial organisation who sell their product via sensationalist headlines.

[Harry Peterson]

34 minutes ago, Solent Richard said:

 

PS. Over the years I have found that anything to do with a 'Which' report should be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

They are a commercial organisation who sell their product via sensationalist headlines.

For the record:

 

The Which? Group

As a not-for-profit charitable organisation, all the money we make from our commercial operations is used to support the activities of the Which? Group.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

For the record:

 

The Which? Group

As a not-for-profit charitable organisation, all the money we make from our commercial operations is used to support the activities of the Which? Group.

That's a euphemism for senior members of the staff.😁

[philsuarez]

On my 25 plus cruises with various companies we have always had excellent experiences. Cabins have included inside on P & O, inside on QM2, Haven Suite on NCL and Yacht Club with MSC. The thing with most modern cruise ships is that they are large enough to offer something for everyone. I can't remember how many times we've chatted with someone the first day and never seen them again for two weeks. You can choose to go to a sail away party or not...the choice is yours. You will always find a part of the ship that suits a particular style. Personally I prefer a quiet area to read and chill out which I've never had a problem finding. No doubt things have changed as cruising is no longer purely for the rich upper classes but that is true in many walks of life. I will continue to cruise and the minute it gets 'Butlins' like I'll rethink my holiday plans!

[cjthedjeu]

Some of the most obnoxious and troublesome passengers I have encountered have been the most wealthy, tending to be loud and thinking that they own the place or that everything should be geared to suit them. People can be good or bad, quiet or loud irrespective of how rich or poor they happen to be, and it is quite wrong to make assumptions in either direction. 

[Harry Peterson]

3 minutes ago, cjthedjeu said:

Some of the most obnoxious and troublesome passengers I have encountered have been the most wealthy, tending to be loud and thinking that they own the place or that everything should be geared to suit them. People can be good or bad, quiet or loud irrespective of how rich or poor they happen to be, and it is quite wrong to make assumptions in either direction. 

I’ll second that!  

 

Wealth is no indicator of how ‘nice’ passengers are going to be. Some wealthy people are obnoxious, as you say.  More the attitude of mind, I’d say, that’s relevant.

[terrierjohn]

6 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

I’ll second that!  

 

Wealth is no indicator of how ‘nice’ passengers are going to be. Some wealthy people are obnoxious, as you say.  More the attitude of mind, I’d say, that’s relevant.

But I thought you wanted P&O to increase prices, not only so that standards could increase but also to keep out the riff raff, so that only the wealthy could afford to cruise.

[Harry Peterson]

12 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

But I thought you wanted P&O to increase prices, not only so that standards could increase but also to keep out the riff raff, so that only the wealthy could afford to cruise.

You misunderstand me.  I simply want P&O to maintain, rather than constantly reduce, the quality of the product.  I'm certainly not wealthy, I have no particular desire to mix with the wealthy (though it's a matter of indifference), but I do not like mixing with people who have no concept of decent behaviour, whether it be in the buffet, in the MDR or queuing for a lift.  

[brian1]

Loving the new rating system.Having parked up near them a few times,I think Costa= Maplins.Cunard=Potters and R7S etc=Center Parcs.

[AndyMichelle]

9 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

You misunderstand me.  I simply want P&O to maintain, rather than constantly reduce, the quality of the product.  I'm certainly not wealthy, I have no particular desire to mix with the wealthy (though it's a matter of indifference), but I do not like mixing with people who have no concept of decent behaviour, whether it be in the buffet, in the MDR or queuing for a lift.  

It's ignorance versus arrogance again Harry. 

Some people don't know any better and some do but don't care. 

The ignorant can be educated, to a certain extent, but the arrogant can't.. 

Bad manners is not acceptable for any reason from any class. 

Society will give us both, we just have to live with it. 

Andy 

 

[Selbourne]

To revert to the original issue - is P&O becoming ‘Butlins on Sea’? A few comments;

 

By way of background, we have only cruised with P&O but have done so since 1996 and been on all their ships, most multiple times. The last time I went to Butlin’s was in the early 1970’s as a youngster, so I can’t comment on what it’s like now, but it certainly doesn’t appeal to us nowadays. I used to subscribe to Which? but cancelled my subscription as I found that their ‘tests’ were based upon test groups that were far too small and the results were not representative of results found in respected publications / websites that are specialist to the items / services that I was researching. 
 

Our first P&O cruise was in 1996 on Oriana, during her second year in service. We shall never forget it. It was an upmarket experience throughout and, yes, the passenger profile was quite different to these days. We were in our 30’s and all but about a dozen of the passengers were what you would describe as ‘wealthy retired’, many of whom were complaining about the fact that “it’s not as good as Canberra”. Over the years we have noticed a steady decline in the quality of the experience, but we still find that the quality of service on board is generally excellent (shoreside is rubbish, but that’s a different issue). It is also possible to tailor your cruise to make it a bit more upmarket, principally through the Select Dining restaurants. Prior to my wife becoming a full time wheelchair user we had started booking suites and had enjoyed the extra space, better in-cabin facilities and breakfast in Epicurean (on Britannia), but we stopped booking them after the usually tranquil breakfast experience was spoiled by some families with young children who were very noisy and poorly behaved (I blame the parents more then the children - in the very rare event that either of ours became unruly in a restaurant when they were young, we took them outside until they promised to behave). 

Lots of posters comment on how the passenger profile has changed and yes that is true, but we find that it varies enormously by ship. When we cruise on the big P&O resort ships, the passenger profile nowadays covers all demographic types and, yes, includes a proportion of people that we wouldn’t choose to holiday with (just as they wouldn’t with us). We tend to only go on these ships with our daughters (now in their 20’s) so always have a table for 4 on our own (Freedom Dining) for formal nights and use the Select Dining restaurants for most of the other nights. We also spend quite a bit of time in our cabin and balcony and rarely attend the ‘entertainment’, which I think is P&O’s weak point as it’s stuck in a time warp and, in my view, is where most of the ‘Butlin’s’ comparison comes from. Conversely, most of our cruises have been on Aurora and the passenger profile is entirely different and much more akin to the P&O of the ‘good old days’. We happily share tables when the mood takes us and 9 out of 10 times have had lovely dining companions, some of whom we have become very friendly with. Entertainment aside, there is nothing ‘Butlin’s’ about Aurora. 

 

I read an interesting article yesterday which was an interview with Paul Ludlow, boss of P&O UK (link below) in which he describes their target audience as ‘Saturday night ITV viewers’. Well, that’s not us I’m afraid and probably explains why we only have two future P&O cruises booked. One is a 3 week cruise on Aurora, which I anticipate will be excellent. The other is the Iona maiden cruise with our daughters. I shall be fascinated to see what that’s like although, being the Maiden, which sold out very quickly on release, I suspect will be a more traditional passenger profile than all those that follow.
 

All that being said, with my business head on, if I was P&O I would be doing exactly the same. Wealthy retired folk are dying off and are being replaced by far less wealthy retired folk, whereas low to middle income families (of which there are many many more) are now finding cruise holidays to be within their reach. It may not be to my liking as a cruise passenger, but it does make business sense. Whilst it may mean that the traditional cruise experience dies when the small ships finally exit the fleet, it is still possible to have a good experience with P&O if you choose the right ship, itinerary, time of year etc. 

 

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/news/pos-paul-ludlow-on-iona-cruises-growth-and-gary-barlow-21022