MSC ranked among the worst cruise ships.....

[Toofarfromthesea]

Am I missing something?  Other than a passing reference to CC reviews there is no description of the methodology the study used that I could see.  Which means it is essentially impossible to assess or judge the credibility of the 'study'.  
 

But maybe this is just the 21st century version of 'science'.  Or maybe I just missed that part at the link?

 

IAC, good.  maybe fewer people will book with MSC and prices won't rise.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Toofarfromthesea

[Markanddonna]

7 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Am I missing something?  Other than a passing reference to CC reviews there is no description of the methodology the study used that I could see.  Which means it is essentially impossible to assess or judge the credibility of the 'study'.  
 

But maybe this is just the 21st century version of 'science'.  Or maybe I just missed that part at the link?

 

I

I agree. When I read reviews, I always imagine the background of the person. Highly opinionated language without details is the biggest tipoff in judging the accuracy of a review. "The food was inedible, all the staff were rude..."  Like others mentioned, one personal issue unrelated to the general experience of that cruise is often what sets off a reviewer to be really negative. That issue is usually buried in the review.

[BermudaBound2014]

7 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Am I missing something?  Other than a passing reference to CC reviews there is no description of the methodology the study used that I could see.  Which means it is essentially impossible to assess or judge the credibility of the 'study'.  
 

But maybe this is just the 21st century version of 'science'.  Or maybe I just missed that part at the link?

 

IAC, good.  maybe fewer people will book with MSC and prices won't rise.

 

I couldn't determine her exact methodology either. It appears to be a very basic meta analysis of overall cruise critic scores. Of course, can any self-reporting data really be 'scientific?" I suppose if you did a qualitative scan looking for specific repetition, but that's never how I liked my science.

 

 I think the value of the study is to show that patterns exist in reviews, and the 13 ships mentioned score lower than their peer ships.  

 

Example: Meraviglia. The last 10 raw scores for reviews posted on CC were:

5

2

1

3

2

1

3

2

1

4

total = 24 / 10 = 2.4

 

If you go back further in time, you will see a pattern emerge.  The average raw score does appear to be in the 2.5 range since Meraviglia hit North America. This is lower than other ships. Some ships average rank is well above 4.  Therefore, those selecting Meraviglia should probably understand that their chosen ship scores lower overall when compared to the competition.

 

Certainly some love MSC. Certainly some love Meraviglia. But the 'odds' of reporting a positive experience are less than if you chose a different ship. This is especially true if you are from North America because, as Sid stated, most reviews are from North American Clients. I think this is especially important in helping future cruisers set reasonable expectations. 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by BermudaBound2014

[GOLDENBONNY]

21 hours ago, cellfree said:

Can we all get the spelling of “Meraviglia” correct?!?

how about MSC Arminiam 🙄

[GOLDENBONNY]

22 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I suspect that those that love MSC are going to be terribly offended by this latest report.

 

 

Really? Become offended over 1000 reviews from people on CC who can not even spell ship name properly or because they think good food and good pizza it's what they have in Pizza Pizza? I think NCL has worst food, ships and service but I am not sitting on NCL board and not searching reviews about them and I will never go with NCL again even for free. I tried it myself once it's more than enough for me I don't need any reviews.  

Edited February 4, 2020 by GOLDENBONNY

[BermudaBound2014]

13 minutes ago, GOLDENBONNY said:

I don't need any reviews.  

 

I find reviews extremely helpful 🙂.

 

I also tend to not judge an entire cruise line based on one experience. You sailed one NCL ship (their worst in the fleet) and have written off NCL entirely.  Of course, that is absolutely fine, your prerogative. I tend to keep a more open mind, so reviews are valuable to me.

 

Isn't it lovely we can all be so different.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by BermudaBound2014

[Beardface]

18 hours ago, electro said:

To keep this in perspective, one must also take into account that most MSC negative reviews on CC are written by Americans who what everything to be like it is on American cruise lines.

Complaining about too many languages is a prime example.

 

BINGO.  This is pretty much exactly what I was getting at earlier when I said that MSC is always going to have lower scores than others, especially when you look at historical numbers.  Americans expect any ship that they sail on, especially out of the US, to cater toward the American culture.  The whole "the customer is always right" mindset is something this crowd lives and breathes by, and when they experience other cultures that tells them to piss off when they're demanding far too much, well they turn into a bunch of angry Yelp! reviewers.  And no, not all of us are like this, but there are enough of us out there that we know its a problem.  Its likely that every one of us has experienced a situation where we've seen an American not get their way and immediately demand to speak with a manager.

 

16 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

I would not pay too much attention to a low MSC rating.  Most of the bad reviews concern something that went wrong and the inability for MSC customer service to solve the problem.  It is also important to remember that MSC is a new company in American waters and has had teething problems.  Basically most of these problems have been solved as MSC is a work in progress.  The reviews are markedly improved in 2019 when compared to the previous 3 years.  

 

There's also the problem that, with the price point that MSC sets, these American crowds expect to come on and have the same atmosphere of a Carnival, Royal, or NCL ship where the staff is encouraging 'party party party' from the minute you step foot on the ship to the minute you disembark.  And when Sally Sue doesn't get her 53rd rendition of 'We are the World' sung in broken English by the wait staff at dinner after waving towels around their head, oh boy is she personally insulted.  And heaven forbid the MDR food only be of Olive Garden standards when everyone knows that the American pallet demands Applebee's.  And god help you if the intercom announcements come in multiple languages to accommodate all the passengers on the ship.

 

Of course, when these people also sail in the Mediterranean, these standards they would still demand all these same standards to be met, because they're all special snowflakes and everyone knows that this vacation is really only about them.  Don't you know, they saved up to get their $600 per person room, and you better believe they're not going to be paying gratuities, because... reasons.

 

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I couldn't determine her exact methodology either. It appears to be a very basic meta analysis of overall cruise critic scores. Of course, can any self-reporting data really be 'scientific?" I suppose if you did a qualitative scan looking for specific repetition, but that's never how I liked my science.

 

 I think the value of the study is to show that patterns exist in reviews, and the 13 ships mentioned score lower than their peer ships.  

 

Example: Meraviglia. The last 10 raw scores for reviews posted on CC were:

5

2

1

3

2

1

3

2

1

4

total = 24 / 10 = 2.4

 

If you go back further in time, you will see a pattern emerge.  The average raw score does appear to be in the 2.5 range since Meraviglia hit North America. This is lower than other ships. Some ships average rank is well above 4.  Therefore, those selecting Meraviglia should probably understand that their chosen ship scores lower overall when compared to the competition.

 

Certainly some love MSC. Certainly some love Meraviglia. But the 'odds' of reporting a positive experience are less than if you chose a different ship. This is especially true if you are from North America because, as Sid stated, most reviews are from North American Clients. I think this is especially important in helping future cruisers set reasonable expectations. 

 

 

 

 

I think you're giving them too much credit.  Would not be surprised if they just pulled average review scores over the past 12 months and ran the story off those numbers.  Expecting them to deep dive into the numbers they found and find any patterns or intricacies is probably way too much time and effort for the money they were being paid to spit this one out.

[GOLDENBONNY]

4 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I find reviews extremely helpful 🙂.

 

I also tend to not judge an entire cruise line based on one experience. You sailed one NCL ship (their worst in the fleet) and have written off NCL entirely.  Of course, that is absolutely fine, your prerogative. I tend to keep a more open mind, so reviews are valuable to me.

 

Isn't it lovely we can all be so different.

 

 

It's not a ship , it's a concept of cruise line and customers . I don't like Divina for example but I keep cruising MSC . Costa Atlantica had a worst reviews on this board but it's still a best cruise we ever had and NCL Spirit had a perfect reviews on this board. Reviews are helpful when they are open like Jimms review not when someone call ship layout "weird" because he can not found way out or something not like he used to it. 

[BermudaBound2014]

20 minutes ago, Beardface said:

 

I think you're giving them too much credit.  Would not be surprised if they just pulled average review scores over the past 12 months and ran the story off those numbers.  Expecting them to deep dive into the numbers they found and find any patterns or intricacies is probably way too much time and effort for the money they were being paid to spit this one out.

 

When I think of meta analysis I think of just that, the average raw score. I went back 10 reviews just to show that a pattern exists, not to imply that the author did the same (sorry if I gave that impression). If you went back 100 reviews, I suspect the same pattern~ aka, the raw score from cc.  I think the raw score from CC is valuable in helping to set expectations. 

 

[GOLDENBONNY]

 Its likely that every one of us has experienced a situation where we've seen an American not get their way and immediately demand to speak with a manager.

Good case scenario . From our last cruise

1. MSC start removing belongings of cheirhogs in pool. We came to pool at 9 am  and saw 4 seats taken by the pool with one of them had a  carry on luggage on it.. We just had a good laugh and took different seats. Around 11 pm crew member removed luggage and around 12 pm one very "polite' american came and start screaming his head off in pool  . After crew member explained to him the  rules he start screaming even more and calling him as idiot demanding manager .

2. Our next door  neighbours sat every evening before dinner on  balcony and to talked what is wrong on this ship. It was like "or no salt today on our table in Buffet , I had to take one from another table"  , "I had to wait 5 min. for my water " or" we had better steaks in Army" ( I am very proud of US Army by the way now )  ect ect . They never said anything good ,nothing. 😢

[Beardface]

5 minutes ago, GOLDENBONNY said:

 Its likely that every one of us has experienced a situation where we've seen an American not get their way and immediately demand to speak with a manager.

Good case scenario . From our last cruise

1. MSC start removing belongings of cheirhogs in pool. We came to pool at 9 am  and saw 4 seats taken by the pool with one of them had a  carry on luggage on it.. We just had a good laugh and took different seats. Around 11 pm crew member removed luggage and around 12 pm one very "polite' american came and start screaming his head off in pool  . After crew member explained to him the  rules he start screaming even more and calling him as idiot demanding manager .

2. Our next door  neighbours sat every evening before dinner on  balcony and to talked what is wrong on this ship. It was like "or no salt today on our table in Buffet , I had to take one from another table"  , "I had to wait 5 min. for my water " or" we had better steaks in Army" ( I am very proud of US Army by the way now )  ect ect . They never said anything good ,nothing. 😢

 

It wasn't so long ago I read a review on here that someone, after telling the waiter to "bring me a decent Cab for dinner", and was audibly disgusted that the waiter brought them Woodford Reserve Cabernet.  To paraphrase 'I wouldn't feed that slog to my dogs, let alone have it for dinner.'

[Formula280SS]

23 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I suspect that those that love MSC are going to be terribly offended by this latest report. But for those considering a booking on MSC, this might be helpful as an overview. A general data. A summary of what most report. It's certainly not gospel. This is simply a meta-analysis of Cruise Critic reviews and subject to all the appropriate limitations of self reporting data. In other words, Cruise critic reviews were tallied and the 13 worst cruise ships identified.

 

Will everyone find MSC  bad? Absolutely not. But when you average in 1,000's of reviews on Cruise critic it appears  MSC has 4 ships that ranks among the lowest 13.

 

Did this stop me from booking MSC? Absolutely not. I believe the price I paid is an exceptional value and will adjust my expectations accordingly.

 

Will everyone hate the food and service? Absolutely not. But more reviewers report MSC food quality and service to be less than satisfactory when comparing to the competition.

 

Will some people LOVE MSC? Absolutely yes. But this study  looks for trends that appear in the majority of reviews.  Out layers absolutely exist.

 

Below are the 13 'worst' cruise ships identified by "far and wide'. You can determine if this study is credible or not.

https://www.farandwide.com/s/worst-cruise-ships-c8eb6e9ffd384546

 

13. Ovation of the seas

12. Quantum of the seas

11. Princess Majestic

10. MSC Meriviglia

9. MSC Lirica

8. MSC Arminiam

7. MSC Preziosa

6. Cruise and Maritime Magellin

5. CArnival Sunrise

4. Costa Deliziosa

3. Costa Fascinosa

2. Costa Favolosa

1. Costa Venzia

 

Before everyone loses their mind, YES we acknowledge many people love MSC. YES we acknowledge many people find MSC food great. Yes, we acknowledge that self reporting data is limited. This study only looks for TRENDS. I have read reviews of all 13 listed above, and must say that it seems the author did due diligence before reporting. Trends do exist here. Even among those members who frequently post here who are also very much fans of MSC, the over whelming response to Meriviglia as been less than stellar.

 

PS: I think it's very encouraging that divina and seaside are not on the list :). 

 

 

Does anyone really know who/what Far & Wide is/are; their history and who owns them and what "it is they sell?"

 

 

  

[BermudaBound2014]

15 minutes ago, Formula280SS said:

 

Does anyone really know who/what Far & Wide is/are; their history and who owns them and what "it is they sell?"

 

 

  

 

I looked up that too, best I can tell it's just a travel informational source. I would suspect they are affiliated with cruise critic, which is also owned by trip adviser. When you follow the source to most travel information, most roads lead to trip adviser. 

 

22 minutes ago, Beardface said:

 

It wasn't so long ago I read a review on here that someone, after telling the waiter to "bring me a decent Cab for dinner", and was audibly disgusted that the waiter brought them Woodford Reserve Cabernet.  To paraphrase 'I wouldn't feed that slog to my dogs, let alone have it for dinner.'

 

Are you suggesting that Americans who travel on MSC are more demanding than Americans who travel on RCL or NCL? That's the whole point of the meta analysis. An average of 1,000's of reviews so the out-layers can be easily dismissed.

 

I dismiss MANY reviews simply because I can tell that the author and myself have different perspectives, however I don't dismiss TRENDS in data which, imo, are much more powerful. 

 

Are any of us really surprised by this article? Of the worst 10 ships (3 MSC, 1 CnM, 4 Costa) these are also the cheapest???  You don't get champagne on a beer budget. You can get an excellent value, but to expect the same quality as a ship that is twice the cost is unrealistic.

 

I actually think studies like these will INCREASE Msc reviews overall because it will help cruisers align their expectations. It is cruisers who expect MSC to offer the same quality as other products costing much more that are most likely to be disappointed, and thus write a poor review.

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by BermudaBound2014

[sidari]

BB ... Are the cruisers all at fault or travel agents who likely do not know the MSC product as well as they do their others.

I agree with you regarding expectations and another likely cause is lack of due diligence on the part of those who sail MSC without checking out what they will get compared to other lines they have cruised on.

[BermudaBound2014]

6 minutes ago, sidari said:

BB ... Are the cruisers all at fault or travel agents who likely do not know the MSC product as well as they do their others.

 

 

Two of my top three preferred agencies refuse to sell MSC. As far as I know, MSC Is the only line that some US agents refuse to sell. That should be very telling to anyone considering MSC.

 

Of course, there are other sites (run by travel agents) who talk MSC up as if it's Crystal Cruise line. These agents are doing MSC a disservice imo. 

 

It's like buying a car. I use consumer reports to gather data, speak to my local mechanic, talk to other car owners, etc... because ultimately we are all responsible for doing the research individually. 

[grandgeezer]

I take all reviews with a grain of salt, if I'm interested I want to find out myself. If I would have listened to the majority, I would have missed out on my two favorite cruises out of 46, over all the major plays except Carnival. Our two favorites are the two we took on MSC Seaside in a Yacht Club Deluxe Suite. It's to the point, unless the deal of a lifetime comes along. It's MSC Seaside YC or nothing.

[Formula280SS]

42 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I looked up that too, best I can tell it's just a travel informational source. I would suspect they are affiliated with cruise critic, which is also owned by trip adviser. When you follow the source to most travel information, most roads lead to trip adviser. 

 

 

Owned by Granite Media.  'The like all generate their revenues from advertising which is based on...hits measured and session time.

 

Further, using CC 'sourced data from forums fails to discount for one obvious shortfall in measurement of ship ratings from CC; the sample data is likely not representative of the population.  For example, take a cruise on Meraviglia with X,000 passengers on a certain date then look up reviews or posts on CC re: that cruise.  Take that # and divide by X,000 total passengers.  Further, make a 'leap to the assumption that those that didn't rate negatively were therefore 'happy.

 

Just saying.

 

Also we don't agree with the list at all; looks like the objective was MSC ships.

 

IMO.

[Kmkub]

24 minutes ago, Formula280SS said:

 

   Further, make a 'leap to the assumption that those that didn't rate negatively were therefore 'happy.

 

 

I doubt that is true. On any given ship I've researched, I can find maybe 2-3 reviews for any given month. That means several thousand didn't write a review. A vast majority of people who cruise don't write a review, negative or positive. The same is true for almost product. Amazon may have a couple hundred reviews on a product, but they've sold many, many thousands of that product. Same for Yelp, etc.

 

I easily read 40 reviews of any cruise ship I consider. I am looking for trends. If three people say the food is bad, but another two dozen say it's great, I tend to believe the food is pretty good. 

 

We are in the very serious minority regarding RCCL. We thought their food was disgusting, but almost everyone else disagrees with the six of us, who cruised together. I tend to think our particular sailing was an anomaly for this reason. 

 

[GOLDENBONNY]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Two of my top three preferred agencies refuse to sell MSC. As far as I know, MSC Is the only line that some US agents refuse to sell. That should be very telling to anyone considering MSC.

 

Of course, there are other sites (run by travel agents) who talk MSC up as if it's Crystal Cruise line. These agents are doing MSC a disservice imo. 

 

It's like buying a car. I use consumer reports to gather data, speak to my local mechanic, talk to other car owners, etc... because ultimately we are all responsible for doing the research individually. 

Many Years ago I called agent in Toronto asking to book me Costa cruise . She picked up 15 min argument that I don't need Costa, I will not love it and I should book Princess. I told her we cruised on Costa and we love it very much ,her response was priceless- "you must be european" . Since then I didn't use any agents . 

[GOLDENBONNY]

Are you suggesting that Americans who travel on MSC are more demanding than Americans who travel on RCL or NCL? T

 

not at all. Some Americans generally demanding too much. On our Celebrity cruise one lady was so upset with X because she got wet under the rain and X did not organize crew members with umbrellas to walk people round port. "It's Celebrity not Carnival after all " exactly what she said. 

[GOLDENBONNY]

since Youtube  become so popular I don't read any reviews any more on any forum. I just look what people film almost without even listen to them and I make my own decision if its my place or not. 

[Formula280SS]

1 hour ago, Kmkub said:

I doubt that is true. On any given ship I've researched, I can find maybe 2-3 reviews for any given month. That means several thousand didn't write a review. A vast majority of people who cruise don't write a review, negative or positive. The same is true for almost product. Amazon may have a couple hundred reviews on a product, but they've sold many, many thousands of that product. Same for Yelp, etc.

 

I easily read 40 reviews of any cruise ship I consider. I am looking for trends. If three people say the food is bad, but another two dozen say it's great, I tend to believe the food is pretty good. 

 

We are in the very serious minority regarding RCCL. We thought their food was disgusting, but almost everyone else disagrees with the six of us, who cruised together. I tend to think our particular sailing was an anomaly for this reason. 

 

 

Thank you.

 

"THAT" was the point.

 

"I doubt that is true." 

 

RE: the OP.

 

[Urbee]

5 hours ago, Beardface said:

 

BINGO.  This is pretty much exactly what I was getting at earlier when I said that MSC is always going to have lower scores than others, especially when you look at historical numbers.  Americans expect any ship that they sail on, especially out of the US, to cater toward the American culture.  The whole "the customer is always right" mindset is something this crowd lives and breathes by, and when they experience other cultures that tells them to piss off when they're demanding far too much, well they turn into a bunch of angry Yelp! reviewers.  And no, not all of us are like this, but there are enough of us out there that we know its a problem.  Its likely that every one of us has experienced a situation where we've seen an American not get their way and immediately demand to speak with a manager.

 

 

There's also the problem that, with the price point that MSC sets, these American crowds expect to come on and have the same atmosphere of a Carnival, Royal, or NCL ship where the staff is encouraging 'party party party' from the minute you step foot on the ship to the minute you disembark.  And when Sally Sue doesn't get her 53rd rendition of 'We are the World' sung in broken English by the wait staff at dinner after waving towels around their head, oh boy is she personally insulted.  And heaven forbid the MDR food only be of Olive Garden standards when everyone knows that the American pallet demands Applebee's.  And god help you if the intercom announcements come in multiple languages to accommodate all the passengers on the ship.

 

Of course, when these people also sail in the Mediterranean, these standards they would still demand all these same standards to be met, because they're all special snowflakes and everyone knows that this vacation is really only about them.  Don't you know, they saved up to get their $600 per person room, and you better believe they're not going to be paying gratuities, because... reasons.

 

 

I think you're giving them too much credit.  Would not be surprised if they just pulled average review scores over the past 12 months and ran the story off those numbers.  Expecting them to deep dive into the numbers they found and find any patterns or intricacies is probably way too much time and effort for the money they were being paid to spit this one out.

 

🤣🤣rofl🍾

[Toofarfromthesea]

People shouldn't toss around terms like meta analysis without understanding what they mean as I don't know what this 'study' was, but it was nothing like a meta analysis.

[Beardface]

2 hours ago, GOLDENBONNY said:

since Youtube  become so popular I don't read any reviews any more on any forum. I just look what people film almost without even listen to them and I make my own decision if its my place or not. 

 

Yep, I watch a lot of cruising vlogs to get my review of a ship.  Far more informative, and gives you a really great idea of what a ship and staff are actually like.