Grand Princess Coronavirus Discussion (retitled after merger of several topics)

[brisalta]

1 minute ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

There is an air station at Point Mugu  but it is not a deepwater port where you could dock a cruise ship of that draft.    I think the media must mean Port Hueneme which is (according to Wikipedia) the only deepwater port between San Francisco and San Diego.    I think Bremerton would be better, a 3000+ person cruise ship would just be another aircraft carrier to them.

 

That might explain why marinetraffic.com shows the Grand Princess sailing in boxes.  The powers to be are probably still deciding where to send her.

[ChiCruiser758]

7 minutes ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

There is an air station at Point Mugu  but it is not a deepwater port where you could dock a cruise ship of that draft.    I think the media must mean Port Hueneme which is (according to Wikipedia) the only deepwater port between San Francisco and San Diego.    I think Bremerton would be better, a 3000+ person cruise ship would just be another aircraft carrier to them.

 

I have been tracking marinetraffic.com, and based on their current information, the ship appears to have left its previous roughly circular course, and seems to be heading directly toward the entrance to the San Francisco Bay. This would suggest a docking somewhere in the SF Bay Area.

 

Click on "past track" to see their prior course, and their current course.

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by ChiCruiser758

[kenasch2]

36 minutes ago, NSWP said:

Point Magu in Ventura County, 600 mile (24 hr sail)  That is what the US media are reporting.

It’s spelled Point Mugu and it’s a Naval Air Station without a deep water port. They might dock at nearby Port Hueneme, a Navy Base that possibly could handle a ship of that size. Then maybe bus passengers to Point Mugu for quarantine. 

[leongcpa]

5 minutes ago, ChiCruiser758 said:

 

I have been tracking marinetraffic.com, and based on their information, the ship appears to have left its previous roughly circular course, and seems to be heading directly toward the entrance to the San Francisco Bay. This would suggest a docking somewhere in the SF Bay Area.

Yeah, it looks that way to me, too. I think they realize speed is of the essence and the closest deepwater port is San Francisco. I wonder if they are thinking of docking in Alameda.

Edited March 7, 2020 by leongcpa

[cruiserchuck]

1 minute ago, leongcpa said:

Yeah, it looks that way to me, too. I think they realize speed is of the essence and the closest port with hospitals around it is San Francisco. 

 

Plus it is fairly near (50 miles) to Travis Air Force Base, where they sent some of the passengers from the Diamond Princess. 

[CruisinCrow]

1 hour ago, leongcpa said:

My question is: Why hasn't that been done already? Speed is of the essence. There has already been at least one death  from the coronavirus among past passengers who got off the ship 14 days ago. A few days early could save lives among those who are on the ship now because we can get them supportive health care earlier. Time matters.

 

Not enough test kits.  Not enough personnel to board the ship and administer 3000 tests.  Not enough labs to run the tests.

[leongcpa]

3 minutes ago, cruiserchuck said:

 

Plus it is fairly near (50 miles) to Travis Air Force Base, where they sent some of the passengers from the Diamond Princess. 

I agree with this; I think it would make sense to dock in Alameda (assuming they can dock in Alameda, which I think, is likely) and then bus everyone to Travis. Admittedly, it's a massive task. 3,500 passengers and crew, maybe 100 per bus, so 35-40 buses up I-80 to Travis AFB in the middle of the night (around 2am). You could probably get everyone there by 7am tomorrrow. You would need to spend all night preparing Travis to receive them.

[flyguyjake]

4 minutes ago, leongcpa said:

3,500 passengers and crew

They've said all crew will remain onboard and quarantined on ship. Of course that could change. It's clear they aren't 100% sure what the CDC or US Military will require and how they will handle this situation. The world is watching make no mistake.

[cscurlock]

3 minutes ago, leongcpa said:

I agree with this; I think it would make sense to dock in Alameda (assuming they can dock in Alameda, which I think, is likely) and then bus everyone to Travis. Admittedly, it's a massive task. 3,500 passengers and crew, maybe 100 per bus, so 35-40 buses up I-80 to Travis AFB in the middle of the night (around 2am). You could probably get everyone there by 7am tomorrrow. You would need to spend all night preparing Travis to receive them.

The question is does Travis AFB have the facilities to handle 3500+ people in separate rooms with food bathrooms etc.  I seriously doubt it.  They will do what they did in Japan and remove the people they know are sick and leave the rest on the ship for 14 days.  Not to mention trying to disinfect 30-40 buses after.  That would be a job.

[leongcpa]

6 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

The question is does Travis AFB have the facilities to handle 3500+ people in separate rooms with food bathrooms etc.  I seriously doubt it.  They will do what they did in Japan and remove the people they know are sick and leave the rest on the ship for 14 days.  Not to mention trying to disinfect 30-40 buses after.  That would be a job.

That's a good question. I assume that since air force transport planes used to fly out of Travis, that they could use a huge hangar, but they also need to get cots/beds together. It's a massive task, no matter where the ship goes, but it has to go somewhere. If it stays out in the ocean, it's probably going to become worse than the Diamond Princess... it would be really sad if the best we can do is mirror Japan's response with the Diamond Princess

Edited March 7, 2020 by leongcpa

[maizer]

3 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

The question is does Travis AFB have the facilities to handle 3500+ people in separate rooms with food bathrooms etc.  I seriously doubt it.  They will do what they did in Japan and remove the people they know are sick and leave the rest on the ship for 14 days.  Not to mention trying to disinfect 30-40 buses after.  That would be a job.

 

Crew will stay, so 2499 ppl or so, which is still a lot

[cscurlock]

2 minutes ago, maizer said:

 

Crew will stay, so 2499 ppl or so, which is still a lot

That time is past.  Either everyone stays or everyone goes.  They are going to have to hire a special company like on the other ship and remove all the beds, furniture, shower curtains basically anything that cant be nailed down and burn it and then do a front to back disinfection of the entire ship.  The ship will be out of commission 2 months or longer now just to get that all done.

[JennAngel9]

Pt. Mugu is our local beach (in fact, one end of our beach has a chain link fence demarcating it from the military property), and it's maybe 10m from Port Hueneme.  

Unclear where the ship will go and I'm not thrilled with the idea that it will be our local community being exposed-- but I also thought it was a travesty that they kept everybody on the Diamond on board while it was almost certainly spreading and so I realize it's wrong to be NIMBY about this.  As a frequent cruiser (who could well find themselves in the shoes of a Grand passenger someday), I hope we can find a safe way to get them off and isolated or at least have competent infectious disease specialists designing the protocol on board.  

[TwoMisfits]

5 minutes ago, leongcpa said:

That's a good question. I assume that since air force transport planes used to fly out of Travis, that they could use a huge hangar, but they also need to get cots/beds together. It's a massive task, no matter where the ship goes, but it has to go somewhere. If it stays out in the ocean, it's probably going to become worse than the Diamond Princess... it would be really sad if the best we can do is mirror Japan's response with the Diamond Princess

To be fair...Japan had no other outbreaks to deal with at the time...the US is now cascading with outbreaks from the last cruise ship, this cruise ships' last sail, and other issues...

[brisalta]

25 minutes ago, leongcpa said:

Yeah, it looks that way to me, too. I think they realize speed is of the essence and the closest deepwater port is San Francisco. I wonder if they are thinking of docking in Alameda.

 

The old Naval Air Station at Alameda was decommissioned a long time ago. Not sure if they have maintained the docks or dredged there since. There are a few other isolated places they could dock but they are down wind of petroleum product storage tanks and the air quality is not very good on a still day in those areas.

[HappyInVan]

Guys,

 

Let's get a grip on ourselves. The highest priority is to provide support for the families of those on board.

 

Are there useful links from the DP saga?

Let's have just one post linking each government announcement.

What are the useful government sites.

Yes, what's the ship's position and destination.

 

Besides the useful stuff, let's not demoralize the families about why there won't be enough cots/rooms/hangers for the quarantine. The government will announce what their plan is. Then, the media will have their say.

 

Does anyone have personal experience that would shed light on the situation?

 

Respectfully Yours

 

 

 

 

[flyguyjake]

3 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

no way are they leaving the negative passengers on that ship...clearly it is toxic...I cannot believe DJT even suggested that. Almost every medical advisor wants to avoid a DP scenario.  

Dr Sanjay Gupta said that passengers who initially test negative will need to be tested multiple times over the quarantine period to determine their status. So now that is thousands of tests more than what anyone has even considered. 

[leongcpa]

1 minute ago, HappyInVan said:

Guys,

 

Let's get a grip on ourselves. The highest priority is to provide support for the families of those on board.

 

Are there useful links from the DP saga?

Let's have just one post linking each government announcement.

What are the useful government sites.

Yes, what's the ship's position and destination.

 

Besides the useful stuff, let's not demoralize the families about why there won't be enough cots/rooms/hangers for the quarantine. The government will announce what their plan is. Then, the media will have their say.

 

Does anyone have personal experience that would shed light on the situation?

 

Respectfully Yours

 

 

 

 

Understood, HappyinVan. I won't speculate any further. 

[lostchild]

8 minutes ago, maizer said:

 

Crew will stay, so 2499 ppl or so, which is still a lot

 

To me, it seems wrong to treat the crew differently than the passengers.  To Princess, the crew are employees and passengers are customers, but to the United States, they should be just people on the ship.   Not sure how they could justify the difference in treatment.   I guess they could say that most of the passengers are Americans and most of the crew are not Americans...

[maizer]

2 minutes ago, lostchild said:

 

To me, it seems wrong to treat the crew differently than the passengers.  To Princess, the crew are employees and passengers are customers, but to the United States, they should be just people on the ship.   Not sure how they could justify the difference in treatment.   I guess they could say that most of the passengers are Americans and most of the crew are not Americans...

 

 

Agree about treating them equally. However, if they spread out the 1100 employees across the 3500 total capacity ship, shut down ventilation, try to use balcony cabins only, perhaps being onboard would be adequate.

 

[JennAngel9]

Another prior Grand cruiser with COVID has turned up in Utah: https://health.utah.gov/featured-news/utah-health-officials-announce-first-case-of-covid-19.

[lostchild]

1 minute ago, maizer said:

 

 

Agree about treating them equally. However, if they spread out the 1100 employees across the 3500 total capacity ship, shut down ventilation, try to use balcony cabins only, perhaps being onboard would be adequate.

 

 

Or maybe they think the crew will mostly be under 30 years old while the passengers mostly be over 60, so most of the crew would survive an outbreak.

[HALrunner]

9 minutes ago, lostchild said:

 

To me, it seems wrong to treat the crew differently than the passengers.  To Princess, the crew are employees and passengers are customers, but to the United States, they should be just people on the ship.   Not sure how they could justify the difference in treatment.   I guess they could say that most of the passengers are Americans and most of the crew are not Americans...

I completely agree that the health of a crew member is equally as important as the health of a guest. I do wonder if the kind of visa, the mostly international, crew might hold has something to do with them staying on the ship.  I recall learning that the visa type (seamen's visa, perhaps?)  does not allow them to remain in the US for more than 24 hours. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by HALrunner

[nasa1974]

Folks are complaining about the OBC or pre-paid gratuities they are not going to get if they cancel. Really!!! 

Lets get this in perspective. The folks on the Grand were on a 15 day cruise. Now they face the prospect of another 14 days minimum in quarantine. Do they have the vacation time to take so they get paid? Will they have a job when they get home? The dog is boarded. I stopped my mail, but it is only for 30 days, now what? What about my bills mailed to the house? If I miss a house or car payment what is going to happen? If I get really sick will my insurance cover it?

Just be thankful you could cancel and get a refund and not go through what the folks on the Diamond went through and what the folks on the Grand are going through.

[maizer]

2 minutes ago, JennAngel9 said:

Another prior Grand cruiser with COVID has turned up in Utah: https://health.utah.gov/featured-news/utah-health-officials-announce-first-case-of-covid-19.

 

Wow, who would have thought the Grand Princess patient zero, whoever that person is, would be the coronavirus 'super spreader'.