"Cruise with Confidence" fine print and loopholes for X

[Bo1953]

4 hours ago, Cruizen Susan said:

 

So unfair!   Since when are gift CERTIFICATES (FCC) null and void or expired before their time.   There is no retailer in the world that would have this policy that it was "redeemed and used" when it was not.

Okay, hypothetically, let us consider this a 'Gift Certificate', who purchased the certificate, if in fact it was purchased?

 

I view FCC's as certificates for an inconvenience, given/distributed by X directly. The certificated does belong to them and it is their rules we accept upon taking them.

 

Were FCC's a true 'Gift Certificate' purchased with 'cash' or 'credit card' and the sailing was cancelled before final payment date, then that would be refunded directly to the original form of payment.

 

Anytime after final payment date, one would be subject to cancellation penalty as disclosed by X, Gift Certificate or not. Unfortunately.

 

bon voyage

 

Edited To Add: If this was only one (1) FCC, then a no brainer for X, since there are potentially thousands plus a possibility of more, there has to be some standard/hard rules on FCC's IMO, rather I like them or not. We accept the T & C's when we accept and use them.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Bo1953

[Babr]

3 hours ago, ginrom said:

I used 250,000.00 points ($2,500.00)  from my RCCL credit card as partial payment for the Edge on 03/29. Does anyone know if they'll give me back those points or even consider it as cash paid when they issue me the FCC? I know they're considered non refundable but I'm curious to know if they're changing the rules since most of this is beyond our control. I've called several times today and can't get through to anyone. 

 

I don’t know how Celebrity will respond, but I do know that insurance companies do not recognize future cruise credits, vouchers, or points as forms of payment because they have no cash value, regardless of what you paid to get them. They can’t be insured for cancellation. Keep that in mind when you book the next cruise with the FCC you get this time. You can still get medical insurance, but not cancellation so if you have can’t go for any reason, you lose.

 

We are in unusual times, so Celebrity may consider your points as part of the payment when issuing your FCC.  In any case, there remains some risk in trying to use the FCC effectively.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Babr

[schittenden]

I find this policy poor business on the part of Celebrity.  I'm surprised that so many are willing to accept it.  For the record,  Princess is not doing this to their customers.  This is from their website...

 

1. What if there is an FCC on the current booking that is being canceled. Will it be credited?
   Yes, it will be credited back. In this instance, the old FCC will be a separate credit from the cancellation fee FCC. In the event the original FCC is expired, it will be reissued with a Dec 31 2021 expiration date.

 

[Babr]

34 minutes ago, actdir said:

So it would seem that if we cancel and take the FCC, we should be sure to take the CFAR insurance on the next cruise.  In that case would we get back the full amount, including the FCC amount?

Just trying to think outside the box.

Thank you for all of the information.  It does impact our decision.
I'm sorry that this affects so many of you.

 

Nope - not insurable even under CFAR. Insurance companies do not recognize FCC as a form of payment - no cash value.

 

See post #52.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Babr

[The_Big_M]

7 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

Sounds like you have made your decision, hello Princess Cruises...

 

You cancelled, not X as such used. I Am sure if X cancelled it would have carried forward.

 

You did use the certificate, to be sure.

 

For others, it is a question they need to ask before making the same move or change using a previously issued FCC...

 

bon voyage

 

Which means that the name is a misnomer, since Celebrity took away that confidence that they would be made whole by the cancellation.

 

They had something, but Celebrity took it away and didn't replace it.

[Bo1953]

1 hour ago, The_Big_M said:

 

Which means that the name is a misnomer, since Celebrity took away that confidence that they would be made whole by the cancellation.

 

They had something, but Celebrity took it away and didn't replace it.

Actually, I do not consider it a misnomer.

 

It is a 'gift' from X for a one (1) time use/application.

 

Now, if the recipient chooses to change their mind after giving the FCC over to X, then the stipulation of such action is go on the sailing which the recipient self-selected or forfeit the FCC/Gift altogether.

 

Where is the misnomer in this?

 

After all, it is called or referred to as a (as in single) Future Cruise Credit not for multiple use or changes as I would desire.

 

The disclosure is generally on the face of the FCC, as has been reported. Apparently on the OP's FCC it was reported as being in fine print. I accept this as fact as I have not seen their FCC, others have read it on theirs so there is no doubt in my mind about the that.

 

The issue has changed to one in which the interpretation around 'use' in terms of actually sailing when in fact it is, to X, about booking which triggers the term used.

 

I do understand the angst which the OP and others must have over this, yet the fact still remains that the restrictions were disclosed, rather we like them, read them or even understood them or not.

 

Bon voyage

 

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Bo1953

[Bo1953]

3 hours ago, actdir said:

So it would seem that if we cancel and take the FCC, we should be sure to take the CFAR insurance on the next cruise.  In that case would we get back the full amount, including the FCC amount?

Just trying to think outside the box.

Thank you for all of the information.  It does impact our decision.
I'm sorry that this affects so many of you.

Actually, I would tend to think that CFAR will not be enforce for FCC 's as they have no other value but booking a future sailing.

 

What does one pay for a FCC?

 

The FCC is a' good will' gesture from the cruise industry during this time and before to say 'We are sorry for a specific inconvenience and nothing more than that is it.

 

As an additional show of Good Will towards those who wish to cancel their sailing after the final payment date and up to 48 hours of sailing no 100%loss of the fare, we have the opportunity to to re-book a Future Cruise, without loss.

 

Please check your policy to ensure covered in this scenario or not.

 

Bon voyage

Edited March 10, 2020 by Bo1953

[CHUCKIE50]

9 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

Sounds like you have made your decision, hello Princess Cruises...

 

You cancelled, not X as such used. I Am sure if X cancelled it would have carried forward.

 

You did use the certificate, to be sure.

 

For others, it is a question they need to ask before making the same move or change using a previously issued FCC...

 

bon voyage

bon voyage 

I must respectfully disagree with your analysis on the OP's situation. We could only be sure if we could read the original FCC and see the terms applying to that specific FCC. This has been my own experience the three times I've had FCC's issued to me..

 

I have copied a  recent FCC (removing my personal info) that I received and I don't see language saying that once applied to a specific cruise it is therefore considered used. 

 

 

Future Cruise Certificate

FCC - Savings

This Certificate is presented to ...

 

• Applicable to all categories & price programs except Loyalty Reunion Cruises, Complimentary Cruises, Interline, T/A Reduced Rate, Individual & Group Incentive, & Charter sailings. Applicable to individual & group bookings to cruise fare only. Not Applicable for: shore excursions, tour packages, or any other personal charges. Guest is responsible for taxes and fees where applicable
• One certificate per person, per booking, and valid only for the person noted on this certificate. Excludes Galapagos sailings unless certificate was issued for a Galapagos sailing
• If credit is applied to a booking of lesser value, the difference will not be carried to another booking and it will be considered as used

• Cruise must be taken by 07/10/2020 and not redeemable for inaugural or holiday sailings, or on reservations made within a new ship’s designated inaugural booking window.
• Valid only for the cruise brand shown above.
• As are all requests for reservations, the offered space is subject to availability, and from time to time, itineraries may be altered or services on a specific ship may be discontinued. Certain restrictions apply
• Non-transferable and may not be redeemed for cash.

INFORMATION REGARDING REDEMPTION: Please present this savings certificate to your travel agent. Your final payment will be adjusted to reflect savings. NOTE TO THE TRAVEL AGENT: This original certificate must be submitted to Royal Customer Service for verification and application before the sailing has commenced. Certificate value may not be deducted from deposit amount. Only the original certificate will be accepted and the offer will not be extended. For fastest service please redeem at www.cruisingpower.com, or by emailing your request to Coupons@rccl.com. You can also mail to Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd, Coupon Redemption Center, 1050 Caribbean Way, Miami, FL 33132.

Edited March 10, 2020 by CHUCKIE50

[HBDave]

Does anyone know for sure what happens if a cruise is canceled by Celebrity and FCC was used. I'm not talking about taking the Cruise with Confidence cancellation, but instead if Celebrity notifies me that a cruise I have booked has been canceled.

[HBDave]

55 minutes ago, CHUCKIE50 said:

bon voyage 

I must respectfully disagree with your analysis on the OP's situation. We could only be sure if we could read the original FCC and see the terms applying to that specific FCC. This has been my own experience the three times I've had FCC's issued to me..

 

I have copied a  recent FCC (removing my personal info) that I received and I don't see language saying that once applied to a specific cruise it is therefore considered used. 

 

 

Future Cruise Certificate

FCC - Savings

This Certificate is presented to ...

 

• Applicable to all categories & price programs except Loyalty Reunion Cruises, Complimentary Cruises, Interline, T/A Reduced Rate, Individual & Group Incentive, & Charter sailings. Applicable to individual & group bookings to cruise fare only. Not Applicable for: shore excursions, tour packages, or any other personal charges. Guest is responsible for taxes and fees where applicable
• One certificate per person, per booking, and valid only for the person noted on this certificate. Excludes Galapagos sailings unless certificate was issued for a Galapagos sailing
• If credit is applied to a booking of lesser value, the difference will not be carried to another booking and it will be considered as used

• Cruise must be taken by 07/10/2020 and not redeemable for inaugural or holiday sailings, or on reservations made within a new ship’s designated inaugural booking window.
• Valid only for the cruise brand shown above.
• As are all requests for reservations, the offered space is subject to availability, and from time to time, itineraries may be altered or services on a specific ship may be discontinued. Certain restrictions apply
• Non-transferable and may not be redeemed for cash.

INFORMATION REGARDING REDEMPTION: Please present this savings certificate to your travel agent. Your final payment will be adjusted to reflect savings. NOTE TO THE TRAVEL AGENT: This original certificate must be submitted to Royal Customer Service for verification and application before the sailing has commenced. Certificate value may not be deducted from deposit amount. Only the original certificate will be accepted and the offer will not be extended. For fastest service please redeem at www.cruisingpower.com, or by emailing your request to Coupons@rccl.com. You can also mail to Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd, Coupon Redemption Center, 1050 Caribbean Way, Miami, FL 33132.

 

I would agree, this is the same Booking Conditions on my Future Cruise Certificate.

[Bo1953]

1 hour ago, CHUCKIE50 said:

bon voyage 

I must respectfully disagree with your analysis on the OP's situation. We could only be sure if we could read the original FCC and see the terms applying to that specific FCC. This has been my own experience the three times I've had FCC's issued to me..

 

I have copied a  recent FCC (removing my personal info) that I received and I don't see language saying that once applied to a specific cruise it is therefore considered used. 

 

 

Future Cruise Certificate

FCC - Savings

This Certificate is presented to ...

 

• Applicable to all categories & price programs except Loyalty Reunion Cruises, Complimentary Cruises, Interline, T/A Reduced Rate, Individual & Group Incentive, & Charter sailings. Applicable to individual & group bookings to cruise fare only. Not Applicable for: shore excursions, tour packages, or any other personal charges. Guest is responsible for taxes and fees where applicable
• One certificate per person, per booking, and valid only for the person noted on this certificate. Excludes Galapagos sailings unless certificate was issued for a Galapagos sailing
• If credit is applied to a booking of lesser value, the difference will not be carried to another booking and it will be considered as used

• Cruise must be taken by 07/10/2020 and not redeemable for inaugural or holiday sailings, or on reservations made within a new ship’s designated inaugural booking window.
• Valid only for the cruise brand shown above.
• As are all requests for reservations, the offered space is subject to availability, and from time to time, itineraries may be altered or services on a specific ship may be discontinued. Certain restrictions apply
• Non-transferable and may not be redeemed for cash.

INFORMATION REGARDING REDEMPTION: Please present this savings certificate to your travel agent. Your final payment will be adjusted to reflect savings. NOTE TO THE TRAVEL AGENT: This original certificate must be submitted to Royal Customer Service for verification and application before the sailing has commenced. Certificate value may not be deducted from deposit amount. Only the original certificate will be accepted and the offer will not be extended. For fastest service please redeem at www.cruisingpower.com, or by emailing your request to Coupons@rccl.com. You can also mail to Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd, Coupon Redemption Center, 1050 Caribbean Way, Miami, FL 33132.

At the risk of continuing to chase X's rudders around the ocean on this topic, have you seen Post #43 on this thread and do you know what the 'Certain restrictions apply' are?

 

While 'Non-transferable' certainly means to another passenger, or so I believe, it may also mean to another sailing if already surrendered, as well (see Certain restrictions apply statement).

 

One can agree that it is not transferable or redeemable for cash, correct?

 

Since this particular FCC is at least one (1) if not two (2) years old, the T & C's may have very well changed or updated since its' issuance, just thinking within the box. The new T & C's may not be applicable to your particular FCC, yet you need to find out before canceling your sailing if you booked already and are thinking about canceling.

 

I recommend one find out sooner than later.

 

bon voyage

[Maysea]

I canceled our March 14 Equinox on Saturday.  It was booked through Costco.  The TA explained that my FCC would change the price of the new cruise booked with it.  So if we booked a cruise for $4000 and used $3500 FCC towards the payment for it, the new cruise  price would be $500.  Our Costco cash card would be based on $500, not the $4000 I have paid.  And let’s not forget that that is money we have PAID to Celebrity!  They are giving us a credit for canceling, but it is still our money!
I like the idea someone said to apply the FCC at a later date, that way if a change needs to be made, the FCC would not be lost.  
I know the new cruise needs to be taken by December 31, 2021, but does anyone know if the FCC needs to be applied sooner than that?  I would like to hang on to it until final payment is due.  

[Maysea]

1 hour ago, HBDave said:

Does anyone know for sure what happens if a cruise is canceled by Celebrity and FCC was used. I'm not talking about taking the Cruise with Confidence cancellation, but instead if Celebrity notifies me that a cruise I have booked has been canceled.

We booked a cruise on Royal, which we cancelled and got FCC  because it was a non-refundable fare.  We rebooked on an Allure OTS cruise, which Royal canceled because Allure was going in for an early dry dock.  We were allowed to use the FCC and all other payments from that cruise on another cruise. 

[Cruizen Susan]

13 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

If you cancel, you will have to live by Celebrity’s rules.   Not sure you will find thePrincess rules more accommodating.

 

Oh but you err..... Princess is far more accommodating!

 

(From Princess website)  What if there is an FCC on the current booking that is being canceled. Will it be credited?
Yes, it will be credited back. In this instance, the old FCC will be a separate credit from the cancellation fee FCC. In the event the original FCC is expired, it will be reissued with a Dec 31 2021 expiration date.

[Cruizen Susan]

12 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

Okay, hypothetically, let us consider this a 'Gift Certificate', who purchased the certificate, if in fact it was purchased?

 

I view FCC's as certificates for an inconvenience, given/distributed by X directly. The certificated does belong to them and it is their rules we accept upon taking them.

 

Were FCC's a true 'Gift Certificate' purchased with 'cash' or 'credit card' and the sailing was cancelled before final payment date, then that would be refunded directly to the original form of payment.

 

Anytime after final payment date, one would be subject to cancellation penalty as disclosed by X, Gift Certificate or not. Unfortunately.

 

bon voyage

 

Edited To Add: If this was only one (1) FCC, then a no brainer for X, since there are potentially thousands plus a possibility of more, there has to be some standard/hard rules on FCC's IMO, rather I like them or not. We accept the T & C's when we accept and use them.

 

Wow,   the way you are following everyone around as an apologist for Celebrity,  you either work for them or are just an attorney who loves to argue.   Or perhaps a stockholder concerned about the dip in the market?   Are you serious?  Getting into semantics about certificate versus gift certificate?

 

Bon Voyage

[Bo1953]

3 minutes ago, Cruizen Susan said:

 

Oh but you err..... Princess is far more accommodating!

 

(From Princess website)  What if there is an FCC on the current booking that is being canceled. Will it be credited?
Yes, it will be credited back. In this instance, the old FCC will be a separate credit from the cancellation fee FCC. In the event the original FCC is expired, it will be reissued with a Dec 31 2021 expiration date.

Thank you for this, and I will venture to say were X to cancel your sailing where a FCC was used, the same policy is in play, since you canceled the sailing or as was originally posted by you, the FCC is null and void and not transferable and considered used.

 

At this juncture, please let us know if you canceled or if X canceled, this makes a difference to be sure.

 

bon voyage

[Cruizen Susan]

9 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

Thank you for this, and I will venture to say were X to cancel your sailing where a FCC was used, the same policy is in play, since you canceled the sailing or as was originally posted by you, the FCC is null and void and not transferable and considered used.

 

At this juncture, please let us know if you canceled or if X canceled, this makes a difference to be sure.

 

bon voyage

 

No thanks, I will not be answering for your scrutiny.

 

Bon Voyage

[The_Big_M]

9 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

Actually, I do not consider it a misnomer.

 

It is a 'gift' from X for a one (1) time use/application.

 

Now, if the recipient chooses to change their mind after giving the FCC over to X, then the stipulation of such action is go on the sailing which the recipient self-selected or forfeit the FCC/Gift altogether.

 

Where is the misnomer in this?

 

After all, it is called or referred to as a (as in single) Future Cruise Credit not for multiple use or changes as I would desire.

 

 

Not the "Future cruise credit" which  has always been named that way, and isn't the primary topic of discussion.

 

The name of the topic and their signature policy they are now marketing, i.e. "Cruise with Confidence". The purpose of that is to say 'we've got your back.' Except they don't... only in some circumstances.

[helen haywood]

I’m unclear about this...even having read the whole thread.  I have not (yet) canceled a cruise under X’s new policy.  But it sounds as though the “new” FCC is different from one I have had from them before.  I received a FCC and applied it to one cruise and before final payment successfully switched it to another cruise. I was told by my TA and X that the FCC was good for any cruise I wanted to apply it to before the expiration date.

[GRBlizz]

Is there any possibility the TA is confused? It's possible that what this means is that the FCC is "redeemed and used" as a form of payment for the canceled cruise. So just as you will not get a refund of cash to your credit card, that old FCC will not be reinstated. But the total amount you paid for the canceled cruise should be reimbursed in the form of a new FCC for the full amount of the cruise.

 

I realize it's impossible to get any answers from Celebrity right now. I just wanted to suggest that this may be the case. I hope you will let us know how it comes out.

[mac_tlc]

To me, whether it is fully disclosed or not is not the point. If you applied a past FCC to cruise that you now can cancel under the new policy, that FCC should either still be useable, or it should be rolled into the new FCC. To do otherwise, under current conditions, is ridiculous. I know they get to make the rules, but that doesn’t mean it’s fair or appropriate. Time to take to their FB page and make it clear that this policy is not “cruising with confidence”, especially since other lines are being more accommodating. 
 

mac_tlc

[Cruizen Susan]

15 minutes ago, mac_tlc said:

To me, whether it is fully disclosed or not is not the point. If you applied a past FCC to cruise that you now can cancel under the new policy, that FCC should either still be useable, or it should be rolled into the new FCC. To do otherwise, under current conditions, is ridiculous. I know they get to make the rules, but that doesn’t mean it’s fair or appropriate. Time to take to their FB page and make it clear that this policy is not “cruising with confidence”, especially since other lines are being more accommodating. 
 

mac_tlc

 

Well said.  And it sure does not instill confidence in me,  regarding booking another cruise with the new FCC and the concern about losing it again due to the ridiculous "redeemed and used"  verbiage.

[poffles]

1 hour ago, Cruizen Susan said:

 

Oh but you err..... Princess is far more accommodating!

 

(From Princess website)  What if there is an FCC on the current booking that is being canceled. Will it be credited?
Yes, it will be credited back. In this instance, the old FCC will be a separate credit from the cancellation fee FCC. In the event the original FCC is expired, it will be reissued with a Dec 31 2021 expiration date.

 

I thought the same thing when I read that, and all the other Celebrity is the best. 

 

Not sure why you are bothering with the continuing challenge on this matter ...there is no way you will convince some peeps that Celebrity isn't the best and that instead you are the one that just didn't read the fine print !  True or not it's just too exhausting and not worth the energy.  I have now unfollowed this thread as I cannot read over and over someone repeatedly pointing out 'the facts' of something instead of speaking to the unfortunate loss of FCC in this situation.   I love Celebrity and will continue to sail with them but they are far from perfect or the best in everything they do but c'est la vie.  Right or wrong, sometimes a policy can suck.

 

Happy Sailing!

[hcat]

This thread was  worthwhile when it served to inform,  but has now turned into another rant thread. Sometimes things are not as fair  or pefect as we'd like,  and some  people will never be satisfied.

 

We cancelled one of four  bookings, and are awaiting our credit card refund and future cruise credit for that one.  We will start fresh when we believe it us safe  for us to cruise again!

 

Maybe Princess is  more accomodating because its ships were ground zero for so much virus spread!

Edited March 10, 2020 by hcat

[RosieRoo]

Regarding the FCCs, this is from the FAQs for Royal Caribbean:

 

13) What if I decide to cancel for the Future Cruise Credit and I already had an FCC on my reservation?

• You're in a unique situation, since you used a credit. Your original Future Cruise Certificate will be considered redeemed and used. You'll receive a new Future Cruise Certificate based on the cruise fare in penalty in your current booking. You're forfeiting your old credit, so you may want to wait to decide. We are optimistic that things will be more stable.

 

 

So basically, you lose the value of your original FCC even if it hasn’t expired.  They make the rules.  We just have to abide by them. 

Edited March 10, 2020 by RosieRoo