Cancelled Cruises Refund Tracker/Discussion (merged topics)

[NHDOC]

4 minutes ago, omeinv said:

They are hardly out of money to issue refunds, Just today they reported 2.5 Billion (B) of cash and cash equivalents on hand.  In the same filing they reported that 45% of those entitled to refunds chose cash, while 55% chose the future cruise credits. 

 

Source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/royal-caribbeans-stock-rallies-after-covid-19-related-business-and-liquidity-update-2020-05-08

 

Harris

Denver, CO

they don't really say in that release how much of their cash on hand is already committed to the refunds requested by the 45% who have asked and haven't received them.  That's what would worry me.  They say they are burning through enough on operations to last around 10 more months before becoming insolvent but subtract out the refunds from that and in reality they may be much closer to insolvency. 

[omeinv]

4 minutes ago, NHDOC said:

When I called in a couple of weeks ago inquiring about one of my refunds I was told the delay was caused by a problem with their bank.  I know lots of people who have the same problem.  No money in the account. 

 

RCCL is the only of the big three lines who hasn't said they have secured money to remain solvent.  Both CCL and NCL have issued press releases since the shutdown saying how many billions they have raised to cover operations (and presumably refunds) during the shutdown but nothing from RCCL which leads me to believe they are the least solvent of the three.

 

FWIW also my brother received an email from Celebrity last night offering him a free verandah cabin on any one of a number of cruises at the end of the year.  He has been known to spend a great deal of time in the Casino and this was sent as an incentive to get him back onboard.  He won't set foot on another cruise ship until there's a vaccine, so in this case they literally can't give cabins away. 

You must not read much.

 

Early on RCL obtained an additional 2.2 Billion line of credit.  They may have been the first of the three companies to do so, and currently have reported 2.5 Billion cash on hand, wth additional remaining credit available.  You alleging they have "no money in the account" is just a plain lie. 

 

Harris

Denver CO

[omeinv]

8 minutes ago, NHDOC said:

they don't really say in that release how much of their cash on hand is already committed to the refunds requested by the 45% who have asked and haven't received them.  That's what would worry me.  They say they are burning through enough on operations to last around 10 more months before becoming insolvent but subtract out the refunds from that and in reality they may be much closer to insolvency. 

Operations expense is the big drag here,  the refunds and future cruise credits are an accounting nightmare, but not their own threat to continued business.

 

Your posts have made it clear you you made a decision to cancel, before the cruise line did, and now you're taking out your unhappiness that you "blinked first" by filing credit card disputes; and impugning the management of Celebrity and Royal Caribbean.  You poor decision doesn't mean Royal Caribbean is going bankrupt, or is poorly managed. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

Edited May 8, 2020 by omeinv

[Bo1953]

1 minute ago, omeinv said:

Operations expense is the big drag here,  the refunds and future cruise credits are an accounting nightmare, but not their own threat to continued business.

 

Your posts have made it clear you you made a decision to cancel, before the cruise line did, and now you're taking out your unhappiness that you "blinked first" by filing credit card disputes; and impugning the management of Celebrity and Royal Caribbean.  You poor decision doesn't mean Royal Caribbean is going bankrupt, or is poorly managed. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

h - I happen to think it was more of a 'knee-jerk' decision... still was not a good one, yet in times of panic inexperienced individuals will do things which would, in other times, make them stop and think about how to move forward...

 

Then again.... LOL

 

bon voyage

[NHDOC]

to read the whole release go to:

 

https://www.rclinvestor.com/press-releases/release/?id=1470

 

The Company estimates its cash burn to be, on average, in the range of approximately $250 million to $275 million per month during a suspension of operations.  This range includes ongoing ship operating expenses, administrative expenses, and debt service expense, hedging costs, expected necessary capital expenditures (net of committed financings in the case of newbuilds) and excludes cash refunds of customer deposits as well as cash inflows from new and existing bookings.

 

They also disclose holding $2.4B in customer deposits.  My guess is that's their "cash on hand" but they do not say how much of that is already committed to refunds requested but not yet fulfilled. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by NHDOC

[hcat]

30 minutes on hold so far........taking the time to peruse the Viking brochure!

Edited May 8, 2020 by hcat

[helen haywood]

On 5/7/2020 at 7:43 AM, GerScot said:

I cancelled early March and was getting fed up checking every day, as I was awaiting FCC and refund for excursions etc. Spoke to TA who contacted Celebrity who then forwarded the FCC. The amount on it was incorrect and took another week to resolve. Spoke with Captains Club yesterday, the lady there said I should have received refund for excursions within 3 weeks. Said she would forward it to a manager whom she could not contact at that time,  I said I would hold until she did but she promised to call me back. She duly did within half an hour and told me it must have been "missed!"  Said it was now being processed and as they only post credits on Wednesday and Sunday mine would go through this coming Sunday. Hopefully that's the end of it for now! 

 

Does anyone have confirmation that Celebrity only posts credits on Wednesday and Sunday?  Has anyone gotten credits on other days of the week?  This is the first I've heard of this...

[hcat]

We've discovered some on a Saturday...but mostly Sundays

[RosieRoo]

4 minutes ago, helen haywood said:

 

Does anyone have confirmation that Celebrity only posts credits on Wednesday and Sunday?  Has anyone gotten credits on other days of the week?  This is the first I've heard of this...

I received a credit this am. Maybe it was posted on Wednesday and just hit my CC today. I’m not sure how that works. 

[Schmoe38]

We had 2 refunds credited back to us. One was the cruise fare from a cancelled cruise and the second was the refundable deposit for a future cruise.

 

Both credits were backdated to April 1/20 (Wednesday) and April 27/20 (Wednesday).

 

Randy

[omeinv]

8 minutes ago, helen haywood said:

 

Does anyone have confirmation that Celebrity only posts credits on Wednesday and Sunday?  Has anyone gotten credits on other days of the week?  This is the first I've heard of this...

I'd actually been told Sundays only.  I've had two amounts refunded, and my mother has had one.  All occurred on Sundays (although they show up on the credit card several days later).  Once the credit shows up, you'll see a date, adjacent to the credit indicating the day your bank received it.  Just like a charge will be pending for a few days before it actually applies to your balance, so does a credit.  The difference is most card issuers don't show pending credits on your on-line info the way they show pending charges. 

 

My first refund appeared on my account on Friday, April 24; but had been credited on Sunday, April 19.  The second, and the one my mother received, appeared on accounts on Wednesday, May 6; but had been credited on Sunday, May 3. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

Edited May 8, 2020 by omeinv

[NHDOC]

Just now, omeinv said:

I'd actually been told Sundays only.  I've had two amounts refunded, and my mother has had one.  All occurred on Sundays (although they show up on the credit card several days later).  Once the credit shows up, you'll see a date, adjacent to the credit indicating the day your bank received it.  Just like a charge will be pending for a few days before it actually applies to your balance, so does a credit.  The difference is most card issuers don't show pending credits on your on-line info the way they show pending charges. 

 

My first refund appeared on my account on Friday, April 24; but had been credited on Sunday, April 19.  The second, and the one my mother received, appeared on accounts on Wednsday, May 6; but had been credited on Sunday, May 3. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

He who chastises me for insisting on getting my money back doesn't seem to be willing to let them hold his money.  Interesting....

[helen haywood]

The only refund I've received (in five sums which is short $148.68 from what it should be) posted as "Pending" on Wednesday, April 29th.  

[omeinv]

1 minute ago, NHDOC said:

He who chastises me for insisting on getting my money back doesn't seem to be willing to let them hold his money.  Interesting....

Not that you have any more idea about my finances than you do about Royal Caribbean's; but I chose cash refund not because of concerns about RCL's finances, but because I've found in the past that future cruise credits are a tad inflexible when changes are made to bookings; and I tend to make changes (upgrades and what not) as they go along. 

 

If cash resting with Celebrity is the criterion for confidence in them, I guess it would be fair to say I'm confident, just based on deposits there for future cruises. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

[NHDOC]

Nobody knows how long the cruise lines will be hemorrhaging money but one thing is for sure, it will be a long while before any of them is profitable again.  Their assurances of liquidity by saying they have enough cash and secured credit to last 6, 8 or 12 months isn't very reassuring to me.  Carnival announced they are resuming cruises in August while NCL has cruises scheduled for July.  Anyone who thinks there will be cruises this summer is delusional, but maybe the management are dumb like foxes as they continue to take deposits and payments from suckers and offer in return only assurances of "future credits" if cancelled. 

 

Yes, excellent management.  Cruise with CONfidence.

[BEAV]

1 hour ago, RosieRoo said:

The refund for my deposit on a cancelled Celebrity cruise came back as a credit to my CC but listed as Royal Caribbean. I have never seen that before.  

 

1 hour ago, NHDOC said:

Sounds like they have entered a "creative bookkeeping" era.  Probably a sign that Celebrity is out of money to issue refunds which we all know is the real reason things are taking so long. 

 

We’ve been sailing Celebrity continuously since 2000, and have seen multiple charges/credits over the years listed on our credit card account as being from both companies. 

 

Not to worry, it’s much to do about nothing. 

[RosieRoo]

7 minutes ago, BEAV said:

 

 

We’ve been sailing Celebrity continuously since 2000, and have seen multiple charges/credits over the years listed on our credit card account as being from both companies.

We have also been sailing for years with both companies, but this is the first time I’ve seen them interchange the names like that. No worries, I’m just happy to have gotten the money back. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by RosieRoo

[hcat]

So...today I waited 48 minutes..had my phone on speaker while picking out a few Viking prospects.  Time for  a change in 2022!

 

We cancelled a 11 night cruise  on 4/8/20

Requested deposit  refund of $900.

 

Advised  it would take 4 to 6 wks more to process on 4/22

 

Today after 48 min on hold,  & was advised the refund  "went  through"  on 4/26, and would hit our card in 2 to 3 weeks.  We'll give it more time, but will be hapy to see  our refund phase come to an end,

 

Good news:  rep thought our Jan 2021 cruise is still a good date,

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, omeinv said:

You must not read much.

 

Early on RCL obtained an additional 2.2 Billion line of credit.  They may have been the first of the three companies to do so, and currently have reported 2.5 Billion cash on hand, wth additional remaining credit available.  You alleging they have "no money in the account" is just a plain lie. 

 

Harris

Denver CO

BUSINESS NEWS

MARCH 23, 2020 / 7:39 PM / A MONTH AGO

Royal Caribbean directors step in to help with new bank loan

2 MIN READ

•  
•  

 

(Reuters) - Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd (RCL.N) said on Monday two of its board members had each bought $100 million of a new $2.2 billion loan to the cruise operator, helping to backstop funding as it grapples with a suspension of voyages. 

The purchases by Eyal Ofer and Arne Alexander Wilhelmsen came as a syndicate of banks comprising Morgan Stanley (MS.N), JPMorgan Chase & Co (JPM.N), Bank of America (BAC.N), BNP Paribas SA (BNPP.PA) and Goldman Sachs (GS.N) agreed to arrange the new one-year loan. 

Wilhelmsen is Royal Caribbean’s largest shareholder with an approximately 11% stake in the company. 

With the new secured term loan facility, Royal Caribbean said it had over $3.6 billion in liquidity, including cash deposits and its existing undrawn revolving credit facilities. 

“This is a period of unprecedented disruption for the cruise industry. We continue to take decisive actions to protect the company’s financial and liquidity positions as they enable us to keep focused on our guests, our crew and our long-term plans,” Chief Financial Officer Jason Liberty said in a statement. 

Earlier this month, the company raised its credit capacity by $550 million and said it would cut spending, operating expenses and take other actions to improve liquidity by at least another $1.7 billion in 2020.

 

[Bo1953]

2 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

BUSINESS NEWS

MARCH 23, 2020 / 7:39 PM / A MONTH AGO

Royal Caribbean directors step in to help with new bank loan

2 MIN READ

•  
•  

 

(Reuters) - Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd (RCL.N) said on Monday two of its board members had each bought $100 million of a new $2.2 billion loan to the cruise operator, helping to backstop funding as it grapples with a suspension of voyages. 

The purchases by Eyal Ofer and Arne Alexander Wilhelmsen came as a syndicate of banks comprising Morgan Stanley (MS.N), JPMorgan Chase & Co (JPM.N), Bank of America (BAC.N), BNP Paribas SA (BNPP.PA) and Goldman Sachs (GS.N) agreed to arrange the new one-year loan. 

Wilhelmsen is Royal Caribbean’s largest shareholder with an approximately 11% stake in the company. 

With the new secured term loan facility, Royal Caribbean said it had over $3.6 billion in liquidity, including cash deposits and its existing undrawn revolving credit facilities. 

“This is a period of unprecedented disruption for the cruise industry. We continue to take decisive actions to protect the company’s financial and liquidity positions as they enable us to keep focused on our guests, our crew and our long-term plans,” Chief Financial Officer Jason Liberty said in a statement. 

Earlier this month, the company raised its credit capacity by $550 million and said it would cut spending, operating expenses and take other actions to improve liquidity by at least another $1.7 billion in 2020.

It can be a good thing that Board Members are prepared to put their own money on the line to support the company.

 

bon voyage

[downsmead]

1 hour ago, helen haywood said:

 

Does anyone have confirmation that Celebrity only posts credits on Wednesday and Sunday?  Has anyone gotten credits on other days of the week?  This is the first I've heard of this...

We received our refund on a Wednesday- cruise fare and taxes albeit in 4 amounts but at the same time (not 2x cruise fare + 2x taxes 🤷‍♀️) totalling the correct amount.

[NHDOC]

OK, so I was wrong about them not securing some money but that just proves more of my point.  The directors, who certainly have a vested interest in seeing the cruise line survive (and the stock recover) are willing to LOAN the line money, not without interest though.  Yet, they are asking their customers to loan them money (in the form of the FCCs) at no interest with no assurance of ever being paid back.  Those loans are secured by the ships themselves, which have a book value 6-7x the loan amount.  Customers have no such collateral and are unsecured creditors in the event of bankruptcy. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by NHDOC

[C-Dragons]

13 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

It can be a good thing that Board Members are prepared to put their own money on the line to support the company.

 

bon voyage

Arne Alexander Wilhelmsen was the co founder of what eventually became Royal Caribbean. Unfortunately he died April 11, 2020. It was very generous of him to do what he did for the company.

Edited May 8, 2020 by C-Dragons

[NHDOC]

19 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

Arne Alexander Wilhelmsen was the co founder of what eventually became Royal Caribbean. Unfortunately he died April 11, 2020. It was very generous of him to do what he did for the company.

 

from what I have read the son, and current Director is Arne Alexander Wilhelmsen, the father was Arne Wilhelmsen who died in April in Spain.   He died at age 90 in Spain during the height of the COVID-19 outbreak with no cause of death given.

Edited May 8, 2020 by NHDOC

[NHDOC]

3 minutes ago, NHDOC said:

I've enjoyed the back and forth here but won't be monitoring this thread from here on out.  Too many people just trying to pick fights.  Good luck to all of you who still have FCCs or deposits with the cruise lines.  I hope, one day, they will be usable.  For now I will wait with my cash in hand and will probably sail again one day when it is prudent to do so.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by NHDOC