What Needs To Happen For Me To Regain Confidence In Cruising-A Comprehensive Approach

[nbsjcruiser]

2 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

We are going to wait until there is a vaccine for Covid-19 in use worldwide before we travel outside the U.S. again, and who we travel with depends on how they handle what we have cancelled for the remainder of 2020.  They need us more than we need them!

Same here. No vaccine, no travel outside Canada.

[gmjc2]

We are skeptical about a vaccine. By the time we get it the virus ( if it returns) will have mutated and probably will be resistant to the vaccine. They anticipate the strain of flu each year but most often it is only somewhat effective. This new virus is just that-new to us, so will be very difficult to anticipate for next year. 

In summary, waiting for a vaccine may not be too helpful!  That having been said- something is better than nothing!! 

[nbsjcruiser]

42 minutes ago, gmjc2 said:

We are skeptical about a vaccine. By the time we get it the virus ( if it returns) will have mutated and probably will be resistant to the vaccine. They anticipate the strain of flu each year but most often it is only somewhat effective. This new virus is just that-new to us, so will be very difficult to anticipate for next year. 

In summary, waiting for a vaccine may not be too helpful!  That having been said- something is better than nothing!! 

The flu is a highly mutating virus which is why it is hard to nail down each year. A flu vaccine is typically 50-50.

 

So far this virus is not mutating much and the general consensus is that a vaccine should be highly effective once its discovered. Much can change for sure but its realistic to hope that the vaccine for this will be quite effective. 

[pris993]

2 hours ago, Level six said:

 

Were you tested for the virus?  OR, you just never got sick?  Just curious.  

I live in California, no reason to test, if no symptoms at all,  now six weeks since we got off ship... cruised with my sister and family... same...my sister actually lives in a county in California with the most virus... again no symptoms at all.    My sister's husband had a medical emergency after getting off the ship, so he was tested, no virus. 

[Level six]

3 hours ago, pris993 said:

I live in California, no reason to test, if no symptoms at all,  now six weeks since we got off ship... cruised with my sister and family... same...my sister actually lives in a county in California with the most virus... again no symptoms at all.    My sister's husband had a medical emergency after getting off the ship, so he was tested, no virus. 

"There's significant transmission by people not showing symptoms," Stephen Morse, an epidemiologist at Columbia University, told Business Insider.

According to Robert Redfield, the director of the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, 25 percent of people infected with the new coronavirus don't present any symptoms or fall ill but can still transmit the illness to others.

Redfield on Tuesday told NPR that "we have pretty much confirmed" that "a significant number of individuals that are infected actually remain asymptomatic."

These asymptomatic carriers, Redfield added, are most likely contributing to the rapid spread of the coronavirus worldwide – the number of confirmed cases passed 1 million this week – and making it challenging for experts to assess the true extent of the pandemic.

[AF-1]

well we all keep our fingers crossed that the doctors and scientists get positive results from their testing.  Best to all and prayers for anyone who has been affected

[ram290]

Imagine:  You are in the Caribbean, out of your home country.  You have enjoyed a 7 day jaunt, and have now arrived at the airport for your flight home.

The World shuts down, no persons in or out of their countries.

The arriving flights have checked into your stay.  The accommodations are full.  There is no place to go and no place to stay.  The travel insurance does not cover such expenses.  Keep in mind that there are no accommodations available.

Ask yourself if you would rather be on the cruise ship, or on the street!

[drowelf]

On 4/5/2020 at 8:24 AM, SargassoPirate said:

 

yep, and that looks to be a year to 18 months out.

and then the question will be how effective it is. The efficiency of the flu vaccine varies each year. Why we would suspect that one for the Coronavirus would 100% effective. 

[pris993]

3 hours ago, Level six said:

"There's significant transmission by people not showing symptoms," Stephen Morse, an epidemiologist at Columbia University, told Business Insider.

According to Robert Redfield, the director of the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, 25 percent of people infected with the new coronavirus don't present any symptoms or fall ill but can still transmit the illness to others.

Redfield on Tuesday told NPR that "we have pretty much confirmed" that "a significant number of individuals that are infected actually remain asymptomatic."

These asymptomatic carriers, Redfield added, are most likely contributing to the rapid spread of the coronavirus worldwide – the number of confirmed cases passed 1 million this week – and making it challenging for experts to assess the true extent of the pandemic.

Lot of different opinions on this issue at this point.  When testing is readily available for everyone,   then folks  like me may get tested.  Till then I am not concerned... I listen to the President briefing every day.   I am doing what everyone is doing, staying inside, shopping once a week, wearing mask.   I live in California, so far this state is doing well with these measures. 

[ram290]

One can never be sure of anything when travel is involved. Or in life for that matter.

Virus or man made disasters.  No guarantees.

I praise God everyday for all our first responders  everyday, and have since 9/11. 

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/04/06/coronavirus-coral-princess-passengers-frustrated-disembarkation/2953192001/
 

I'd say before MOST people will be comfortable, things like this must stop happening.

 

It's been more than a month since Grand, and the cruise lines still seem clueless.

[Roberto256]

1 hour ago, ram290 said:

Imagine:  You are in the Caribbean, out of your home country.  You have enjoyed a 7 day jaunt, and have now arrived at the airport for your flight home.

The World shuts down, no persons in or out of their countries.

The arriving flights have checked into your stay.  The accommodations are full.  There is no place to go and no place to stay.  The travel insurance does not cover such expenses.  Keep in mind that there are no accommodations available.

Ask yourself if you would rather be on the cruise ship, or on the street!

 

 

Imagine: you are on the same 7-day cruise, sailing back towards your embarcation port.

A few hours before your schedule arrival, the port closes to all cruise ships.

Your home country then announces that they will be closing all airports in 48 hours.

 

You're trapped offshore, unable to being your flight home, as the 48 hour travel window counts down...

 

Would you rather be on a cruise ship, or on the street?

 

 

[ram290]

Cruise ship

[Aus Traveller]

2 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/04/06/coronavirus-coral-princess-passengers-frustrated-disembarkation/2953192001/

I'd say before MOST people will be comfortable, things like this must stop happening.

It's been more than a month since Grand, and the cruise lines still seem clueless.

Because the ship at been at sea since 1st March with no known infections on board, it is highly likely that the virus was acquired while the ship was docked in Buenos Aires on 19th March. The timing fits perfectly. 

 

What could the Coral Princess have done differently? Could they have denied re-boarding for the passengers who went to the airport in Buenos Aires, then returned to the ship after they missed their flight? Should they have refused to allow the Argentine officials to come on board?

 

 

[bluesea321]

3 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

What could the Coral Princess have done differently? 

 

I don't know what they could have done differently while in South America but they have not handled matters well at all after docking in Miami.  Take a look at the article below, certainly a lack of communications and another passenger died as a result.

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241809556.html

[pris993]

2 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/04/06/coronavirus-coral-princess-passengers-frustrated-disembarkation/2953192001/
 

I'd say before MOST people will be comfortable, things like this must stop happening.

 

It's been more than a month since Grand, and the cruise lines still seem clueless.

I understand is never a good thing being ill or sick on a cruise ship, reading this article, I guess I don't see what Princess could have done differently????    Princess is as much a victim of this virus as any passenger.    If I was these folks, of course, I would like to get off and home asap, but that is no longer in the cruise lines control.  Anyone who cruises should realize this.  

 

I was on the Grand got off 2/21... the cruise after us, passenger who were guarantine just got release this past week.    The State of California where they were guaratined controlled what Princess could do.  The situation here was handled in much the same way as Florida is going.  

 

If you want to blame someone  -- blame China, blame the world health organization who helped China lie to the world. 

 

I am sorry for the difficulties folks are experiencing.  I am sorry we are staying home and not working... there is a lot to be sorry about but let's give the cruise lines, air lines and other business who are trying best to cope a brake.  Let's pray for them all and us too. 

 

 

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

29 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Because the ship at been at sea since 1st March with no known infections on board, it is highly likely that the virus was acquired while the ship was docked in Buenos Aires on 19th March. The timing fits perfectly. 

 

What could the Coral Princess have done differently? Could they have denied re-boarding for the passengers who went to the airport in Buenos Aires, then returned to the ship after they missed their flight? Should they have refused to allow the Argentine officials to come on board?

 

 

    Holland, Royal, Princess ... none of them should have been running that last round of cruises after Grand.
   Anyone paying attention to the much-maligned mainstream press knew by mid- to late February that the globe faced a serious threat. 
   Worse yet, Princess and HAL have done a wretched job of coping ever since ... and unbelievably, Coral seems like a replay of Zaandam. Incompetence,

bungling and delays at every step.

    Nobody has any business taking responsibility for thousands of people and then saying "oh no, we have no emergency plan" ... or worse yet "our emergency plan is for Port X or State W or Nation Z to fix this. And hurry up, 'cuz

our onboard medical care is a low-budget patchwork and we have no effective anti-viral procedures."

 

 

    The cruise lines always played fast and loose with onboard medical facilities ... and frankly, we cruisers share some of the blame for rolling the dice on that count. We always knew a cruise ship would be a really, really bad place to have a stroke, a burst appendix, pancreatitis - but we took the risk (and I believe most of my fellow cruisers were like me & just didn't spend time thinking about it)

 

     That's one of many things about cruising that will have to change. And don't believe that any regulatory body or port is going to let cruise lines play be the old rules. Too many ships crying out for help at a time when emergency services everywhere were already jammed up.

    
     Of course there will be ultra hard-core cruisers willing to go back under any circumstances.  But mass-market cruises (with widely affordable prices) worked only because there was also a huge base of new customers with decent disposable income. 
 

     The approaching depression (yes, with a d) and the horrible death and illness aboard so many ships in 2020 has brought a dramatic end to that.

Edited April 7, 2020 by EscapeFromConnecticut

[charmed1959]

17 minutes ago, pris993 said:

I understand is never a good thing being ill or sick on a cruise ship, reading this article, I guess I don't see what Princess could have done differently????    Princess is as much a victim of this virus as any passenger.    If I was these folks, of course, I would like to get off and home asap, but that is no longer in the cruise lines control.  Anyone who cruises should realize this.  

 

The change in transportation rules did throw them for a loop, but there are a few things they could have done.

 

They could communicate.  They could send twice daily updates of what passengers left and how many healthy passengers are waiting for planes, just so people still on board know they are not alone.  They could explain the ambulances, if there are ill passengers or crew it would be nice to hear from the captain rather than find out on the internet.

 

 If there are really only 287 left on board they could set the front desk with help to call every party and make sure they are sending them to the right place.  They may find people are flexible, and will fly into different airport than they flew out of, and that would help consolidate charters.  They may find some people left a car at the airport, or have friends that will drop their car at the airport, so they don’t need chauffeured rides to their homes.  And best of all, everyone left on board know they were not forgotten.

 

They could return their luggage.  Give them a few hours to repack.  Yep, that means they need to spray down the luggage again, but at least people are leaving with clean clothes.

 

Won’t get them home faster, but won’t take anymore time, and won’t cost much money to make people feel like they care.

[npcl]

3 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

 

 

Imagine: you are on the same 7-day cruise, sailing back towards your embarcation port.

A few hours before your schedule arrival, the port closes to all cruise ships.

Your home country then announces that they will be closing all airports in 48 hours.

 

You're trapped offshore, unable to being your flight home, as the 48 hour travel window counts down...

 

Would you rather be on a cruise ship, or on the street?

 

 

IF you are on shore you at least have a chance of trying to catch a plane home.  You have some control in your destiny.

 

On board ship not so much.

[paul28]

4 hours ago, drowelf said:

and then the question will be how effective it is. The efficiency of the flu vaccine varies each year. Why we would suspect that one for the Coronavirus would 100% effective. 

Because the flu virus mutates far faster than the coronavirus.  Also the human bodies previous interactions with flu complicate how people’s antibody response will react to the new flu strain mutations.  A vaccine for the coronavirus should work better than flu vaccines.

[Javaholic]

We did not have a cruise planned this year.  Almost booked Panama Canal last fall, for this March. Very thankful that we did not.  I am 60 & have RA, so compromised immune system, husband is 68, a cancer survivor & former smoker.  We’re both pretty firmly in the high risk category.

 

For me to cruise in Europe or the like again, I would want some kind of assurance that if something happens, it won’t be the cluster that this has been. How does that look? I’m not sure. Travel insurance? Guaranteed return to port of origin or final port destination? There has to be options that will cover it.  If not, I’m not sure if I would cruise, especially half way around the world, again.

 

We debated on a cruise in May 2021 for our 25th.  Had already decided on Maui instead, with kids/grandkids.

 

I’m hoping for a vaccine before then.  No vaccine will likely be 100%, but I hedge my bets & get ‘em.  
 

I think if the cruise lines gave refunds if you’re sick, more people would be honest.  As far as a visual exam from non-medical personal at check in?  Big nope from me. We have allergies, I’m choking & sneezing, red eyes, etc right now. But I’m not contagious.  A common cold should not be a reason to deny boarding (especially if no refund).  Proof of vaccines would be great, maybe a dr note in situations like mine verifying I’ve been checked & cleared. There absolutely should be more stringent cleaning in place.  No place setting pieces should be returned to usable without cleaning...that is gross!  

[chipmaster]

6 hours ago, ram290 said:

Imagine:  You are in the Caribbean, out of your home country.  You have enjoyed a 7 day jaunt, and have now arrived at the airport for your flight home.

The World shuts down, no persons in or out of their countries.

The arriving flights have checked into your stay.  The accommodations are full.  There is no place to go and no place to stay.  The travel insurance does not cover such expenses.  Keep in mind that there are no accommodations available.

Ask yourself if you would rather be on the cruise ship, or on the street!

 

Unless it is the apocalypse that started overnight, I'd say anyone that went sailing in late Feb or most certainly departed in March, while I'm sympathetic to the cost and suffering if they canceled, but would find it hard to believe they threw out commons sense to continue cruising.

 

Similar to the decision by all the lines to let any ship sail in March, simply stupid and bordering on irresponsible bordering on involuntary negligence in the deaths caused directly and indirectly by the passengers on the sailings.

[sweetp12]

So for us we are still keen on cruising and have a few booked over the next 18 months.  They may get cancelled not because we don't want to go but because we may not be able to leave / return the country.

 

I don't need to get my confidence back but I think it will change the cruise industry - who will have to overcome the negative publicity that has been generated by the Diamond / Ruby Princess etc.

 

One of the things that could easily be adopted it what P&O Australia has done.  While they have been heavily criticized for the "food court" feeling of turning the buffet into 9 food stations all the food is served to you and is behind screens.  There is no way anyone can touch the food or utensils that you use.  Cutlery is wrapped in the napkin so unused utensils go back to the kitchen and not back into supply.  

 

I think people would be more ready to accept this mode of serving now, rather than considering it low brow and taking away the largest of a buffet.  Yes it is not ideal - you have to go / queue at multiple places to get food.   Yes they eliminated trays so it can be hard to get multiple items at one time.  Food can be luke warm by the time you get to the table if you go to a number of stations (particularly at breakfast).  But this also means that you don't waste food - as you tend to go to one place then eat and then go to the next. 

 

I would also like to see the hand washing stations become spread throughout all the fleets.  While enforcing hand sanitizing is one thing it actually doesn't work against Noro or Corovirus so is almost creating a false sense of security.  Hand washing while slower and requiring more infrastructure is far more effective across the board for hygiene and illness prevention.  If cruise lines made this a mandatory provision and reconfigured buffets it could show more than just a token nod to taking hygiene seriously. 

 

[AF-1]

I wonder how many people on these cruise ships sit in their inside cabin and say; " I should have taken the balcony upgrade"; then at least I could see what is going on outside.

[nbsjcruiser]

12 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

 

 

Imagine: you are on the same 7-day cruise, sailing back towards your embarcation port.

A few hours before your schedule arrival, the port closes to all cruise ships.

Your home country then announces that they will be closing all airports in 48 hours.

 

You're trapped offshore, unable to being your flight home, as the 48 hour travel window counts down...

 

Would you rather be on a cruise ship, or on the street?

 

 

or worse, people on board are getting sick and some are dying.