SS/RCCL Finances: Improving, Options, Questions??!!

[TLCOhio]

Cruise stocks open significantly down this morning.  Royal Caribbean dropped down 6.7% as of 10:07 am today.  The other two were down by roughly the same amount on the stock market opening Tuesday morning after the July 4th holiday.   

 

From the Wall Street Journal  this morning, they had as their lead story on-line with this headline: “Americans Tap Pandemic Savings to Cope With Inflation" with this sub-headline: "Households at almost all income levels drew down accumulations in first quarter to cover costs.”

 

Here are some of their story highlights: “Americans are starting to dip into the huge pile of savings they accumulated over the first two years of the pandemic.  From the start of the pandemic to the end of 2021, U.S. households built up $2.7 trillion in extra savings, according to Moody’s Analytics. Covid-19 lockdowns kept people at home with nowhere to spend money, and three rounds of stimulus payments boosted their incomes.  Now, with inflation at its highest point in decades and wage gains trailing behind, Americans are turning to that stash to cover costs. 'Most households have a cash cushion to navigate through the very high inflation,' said Mark Zandi, Moody’s Analytics chief economist. 'This is allowing consumers to stay in the game.' ”

 

Is this economics info good or bad for the cruise industry during the next twelve months?  Like outlined in this analysis, we had built up good sized "savings" in our accounts.  BUT, we spent lots in early May doing our 50th Wedding Anniversary at Disney World-Universal Studios picking up the full tab for us, plus our son, his wife, two grandsons.  Now we have paid for a Tauck tour in late August around the scenic Canada Maritime Provences, etc.  Will we keep spending or slow down?  What about for others as to their future levels of financial confidence?

 

Full story at:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/americans-tap-pandemic-savings-to-cope-with-inflation-11657013400?mod=hp_lead_pos1

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Early 2020 (right before Covid shut-down), many visuals and details from New Zealand/South Pacific in going from Auckland to French Polynesia.  This includes Bora Bora, Fiji, NZ experiences, etc:  Live/blog;

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2735732-live-terryohio-“new”-regatta-south-pacificnz-pix’s/

[AmazedByCruising]

4 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

The other two were down by roughly the same amount on the stock market opening Tuesday morning after the July 4th holiday.   

 

And now CCL is up 4.91%. Now how to convince my tax man that I'm not gambling but seriously investing  🙂 

[rkacruiser]

6 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

Households at almost all income levels drew down accumulations in first quarter to cover costs.”

 

That is a rather broad brush statement and I didn't read any evidence of that in the part of the article that you quoted.  

 

6 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

Is this economics info good or bad for the cruise industry during the next twelve months?

 

Not just the cruise industry, but for other sectors of our economy as well.

[AmazedByCruising]

7 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

Now, with inflation at its highest point in decades and wage gains trailing behind, Americans are turning to that stash to cover costs. 'Most households have a cash cushion to navigate through the very high inflation,' said Mark Zandi, Moody’s Analytics chief economist. 'This is allowing consumers to stay in the game.' ”

 

I believe Mr Zandi shows how much distance there is between reality and someone being chief at Moody's (and economists in general, unless they teach).  The people who have a "Covid stash" are not people who need that stash to make ends meet. When they start looking for a new car, but can suffer an extra year of having an old car, their problem with paying 10% extra in the supermarket is solved for the next 5 years. 

 

The people who do need such a stash now, whose rent is due but need to eat as well, already had a problem before Covid. They didn't fill their "stash" during Covid by not eating in a restaurant. Instead, the restaurant didn't pay them to wait tables.  

 

Now, good for us I guess, people who wait tables are not the prime target for cruise lines. Their original clientele did build a huge stash and they want to spend it on a a ship owned by CCL. (not RCCL or whatever, they want the real thing. CCL. The best. CCL. Be a winner, buy CCL. )

 

 

[TLCOhio]

20 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

I believe Mr Zandi shows how much distance there is between reality and someone being chief at Moody's (and economists in general, unless they teach).  The people who have a "Covid stash" are not people who need that stash to make ends meet. When they start looking for a new car, but can suffer an extra year of having an old car, their problem with paying 10% extra in the supermarket is solved for the next 5 years. 

 

Agree that the group most struggling to "make ends meet" are not the same population segment as those who have decent "Covid stashes".  Lots of pockets and differences for those in the "have" categories . . . versus . . . those struggling paycheck to paycheck.  Clearly, cruise line marketing experts are aiming to reach and motivate those with cash and who are more financial "flexibility".    

 

From the Wall Street Journal late this afternoon, below is the chart that shows continued downward slides. For five straight days, the stock started fairly well early in the morning, but then slid downward.  Yesterday, RCL hit a new 52-week low.  There were some later day recoveries. The roller coaster ride has to be challenging.  Right?  Today, Royal Caribbean was down more than 7%.  Norwegian went down 9.55% today.  Carnival dropped 6.82%.

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio   

 

Barcelona/Med: June 2011, with stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Great visuals with key highlights, tips, etc. Live/blog now at 255,015 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

From the Wall Street Journal, below is the chart for its stock performance during the five trading days.:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see this visual larger/better!)

[TLCOhio]

During the past two years with billions of dollars in losses for the three major, pubicly-listed cruise lines, have their CEO top executives suffered financially?

 

From this below-connected financial website yesterday morning, they had this headline: “The Highest Paid Cruise Industry CEOs” with these highlights: “Don’t take the media’s word for it that Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings CEO Frank Del Rio is overpaid.  Ask Norwegian’s shareholders, who rejected his compensation package by a 5.5-1 vote margin at Norwegian’s annual meeting June 16. The non-binding vote won’t keep the Del Rio from keeping the $19.7 million he got paid last year. But it was the second straight year the company’s shareholders turned thumbs down: Del Rio’s $36.4 million 2020 pay, as the industry all but foundered, was disapproved in a 5-1 vote. 'Norwegian had the lowest level of support for pay of any Standard and Poor’s 500 index company,' said Rosanna Landis Weaver, an executive pay expert at As You Sow, a non-profit that promotes corporate accountability through shareholder advocacy and litigation. Cruise company CEO wages have become a lightning rod in the larger debate about income inequality, Weaver said." 

 

Here was their chart for Cruise Industry CEO Pay 2021

Frank Del Rio, Norwegian Cruise Line, $19.7 million
Richard Fain, Royal Caribbean Cruises, $15.8 million
Arnold Donald, Carnival Corporation, $15.1 million

 

Additionally from this story, they reported: "Cruise-industry wages are low because the companies hire heavily in developing nations, especially the Philippines, and most workers aren’t on the job for the full year. The median wage at Norwegian is $19,319, compared with $14,706 at Royal Caribbean Group and $8,658 at Carnival Corp.  Del Rio’s car allowance alone was $27,600, more than his median staffer’s total pay. His son, the company’s chief sales and marketing officer, gets a $1,200 a month auto allowance, which works out to $14,400 annually, according to the proxy.  Norwegian lost $982.7 million in the first quarter of 2022 and $4.51 billion last year.  But Del Rio has company: Execs at Royal Caribbean and Carnival have also cashed in big. At all three, CEOs make more than 1,000 times the pay of the median worker at their companies.”

 

Norwegian is actually not the third-largest cruise line company.  MSC is actually ranked third in the world, but is privately-owned by the Italian-Swiss billionaire Aponte family.  MSC is not listed on the NY Stock Exchange and their data is not a widely-known.  For a much smaller and fourth-ranked Norwegian, it does seem that Del Rio's total financial package seems rather large compared to his company's relative size and profitability.  Right or wrong?  If and when Norwegian returns to being profitable, how much more will he pay himself?  If you are thinking of buying cruise ship stock, how does this pay data inspire confidence and trust?

 

Full story at:

https://skift.com/2022/07/07/the-highest-paid-cruise-industry-ceos/

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise from Copenhagen, July 2010, to the top of Europe. Scenic visuals with key tips. Live/blog at 244,604 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[TLCOhio]

As you look at the below charts, what shape/design does it resemble?   A roller coaster ride?  A crazy, multiple-humped camel?  Your description?  Are these shifts and changes going to be positive or negative?

 

From the Wall Street Journal late Friday afternoon, below are the charts for the three major cruise lines listed on the NY Stock Exchange.  Do these trends inspire future confidence?  Or, is now the best time to buy and ride their certain upward swing?

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Sydney to NZ/Auckland Adventure, live/blog 2014 sampling/details with many exciting visuals and key highlights.  On page 23, post #571, see a complete index for all of the pictures, postings.  Now at 237,870 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

 

From the Wall Street Journal later today after their market closing, below are the charts for the three major, listed cruise companies.  For all three lines, early Tuesday am was a major dropping point.  For Royal Caribbean and Carnival, that early Tuesday trading was a new, 52-week low for these two stocks.  What will happen for next week and in later July?:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see these visuals larger/better!)

 

 

 

For Royal Caribbean, here has been the WSJ charting trending since early January 2022.  Has there been a clear, specific trend?  Is is positive or negative?:

[rkacruiser]

9 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

Don’t take the media’s word for it that Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings CEO Frank Del Rio is overpaid.  Ask Norwegian’s shareholders, who rejected his compensation package by a 5.5-1 vote margin at Norwegian’s annual meeting June 16. The non-binding vote won’t keep the Del Rio from keeping the $19.7 million he got paid last year. But it was the second straight year the company’s shareholders turned thumbs down:

 

I applaud NCLH's shareholders for being attentive enough to do this.  Are the shareholders of CCL and RCL that attentive?  

 

Please tell me of a company whose CEO and/or Chairman does not earn a salary, in whatever form, that is far in excess of what that company's "worker bees" earn.  

 

Is such "deserved"?  Is such "earned"?  My, what a debate we could have!  

[TLCOhio]

On 7/8/2022 at 8:27 PM, rkacruiser said:

Please tell me of a company whose CEO and/or Chairman does not earn a salary, in whatever form, that is far in excess of what that company's "worker bees" earn.  Is such "deserved"?  Is such "earned"?  My, what a debate we could have!  

 

Agree, great comments and follow-up regarding the interesting debate as to the levels of pay that company executives "earn" versus "deserve".  Not easy or simple to figure out as to what is right or wrong.  Merited??

 

This thread is now over 70,000 views.  Appreciate all who have dropped by, made comments, shared more, asked questions, etc.  Keep it coming!!  We all might have thought that these financial and stock value questions would long ago have been in our rear-view mirror.  But, last week, the stock values hit a 52-week low.  Still too many questions and many aspects of uncertainty??!!  

 

From the below-connected financial website this morning, they had this headline: “Traveling This Year? Here's Everything You Need to Know About Traveler's Insurance Post-COVID” with these highlights: “When you decide to travel, there can be many different risks you face. They range from getting injured or suffering an illness while traveling to missing an airline connection. Travel insurance helps protect against these types of risks and any financial losses you may incur as a result. While some travel credit cards provide a limited amount of insurance, it's often not enough to cover every situation. There are many different insurance options, and the most common coverage offered includes:
Medical expenses from injury or sickness; Lost or stolen luggage; Last-minute trip cancellations, missed connections, or trip interruptions
COVID-19 coverage.  Many travel insurance companies are now offering COVID travel insurance. You must select a plan with COVID coverage. Some benefits of this coverage are: COVID-related medical emergencies and medical evacuation. If you contract any strain of COVID after the policy's effective date, then your travel medical insurance can provide coverage.  Insurance will also cover any trip cancellations if your trip is canceled due to COVID-19.  Some policies cover the cost of COVID tests if you have symptoms and a physician orders it.  Some policies also cover the costs of quarantine for COVID-19.”

 

For the future, this profile wisely suggests: "If you plan on traveling anytime soon, getting insurance coverage for COVID-19 may be worth it given the new risks of illness. As more variants spread and many countries implement travel restrictions, trip insurance can help you recoup your costs in case your trip is canceled. If you already have an existing travel insurance policy, you should review the policy documents to see if it will cover issues related to COVID-19."

 

Full story at:

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/personal-finance/articles/traveling-this-year-heres-everything-you-need-to-know-about-travelers-insurance-post-covid/

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio 

 

Venice: Loving It & Why??!!  Is one of your future desires or past favorites? See these many visual samples for its great history and architecture.  This posting is now at 96,840 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1278226

[AmazedByCruising]

On 7/9/2022 at 2:27 AM, rkacruiser said:

 

Please tell me of a company whose CEO and/or Chairman does not earn a salary, in whatever form, that is far in excess of what that company's "worker bees" earn.  

 

Is such "deserved"?  Is such "earned"?  My, what a debate we could have!  

 

Well, as a "CEO", some worker bees earn more than I do myself 🙂 

 

When the company is big enough and CEO X makes decisions just a tiny bit better than CEO Y, the salary is worth it. I don't think it matters that a waiter earns just a tiny fraction of it. Why is it useful to compare his salary to what the CEO earns?  You can also compare it to what his previous job paid, or what he pays to a teacher in Indonesia, or how much waiters at other companies earn. The fact that the payments happen to come from the same HR department doesn't automatically mean that their salaries should be compared. 

 

To put it otherwise: I think the waiter couldn't care less what the CEO makes. If the waiter wants to renew his contract, than the company makes him a better offer than any other company in the world, including the ones where the CEO gets paid a very moderate salary. 

 

But nowadays I think CEOs are not selected based on how brilliant they are at decision making but how good they are at politics. 

 

 

[AmazedByCruising]

8 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

Agree, great comments and follow-up regarding the interesting debate as to the levels of pay that company executives "earn" versus "deserve".  Not easy or simple to figure out as to what is right or wrong.  Merited??

 

No, it's clean and simple in my opinion. The good ones, who make the company make more money, should be able to get a raise, the bad ones should be fired. It doesn't matter if it's a dish washer or a CEO.  

[rkacruiser]

21 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

No, it's clean and simple in my opinion. The good ones, who make the company make more money, should be able to get a raise, the bad ones should be fired. It doesn't matter if it's a dish washer or a CEO.  

 

I don't disagree with your thinking.  But, it's the percentage difference in the raises between the workers who are doing the job that helps the CEO's good decisions make money for the company and the CEO's raises that irritates me.  

 

 

[rkacruiser]

21 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

the bad ones should be fired. It doesn't matter if it's a dish washer or a CEO.  

 

Should this also not apply to Boards of Directors who support the poor or questionable decisions coming out of the Executive Suite?  These people continue to get paid for such decisions and are very difficult for the concerned shareholders to eliminate from the Board.  Exhibit A is the Boeing Company in recent years.  

[AmazedByCruising]

6 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

I don't disagree with your thinking.  But, it's the percentage difference in the raises between the workers who are doing the job that helps the CEO's good decisions make money for the company and the CEO's raises that irritates me.  

 

I agree. Also, it's quite simple to measure the performance of a dish washer, and really hard to decide if the CEO made a good decision without waiting a long time. Personally, I believe a CEO should be paid a very moderate salary and get paid according to stock prices 5 years later. That removes the incentives to brush up the numbers every quarter, and make sure the CEO has skin in the game. If someone is not convinced that he can do better than the current CEO, he wouldn't take the job. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

Should this also not apply to Boards of Directors who support the poor or questionable decisions coming out of the Executive Suite?  These people continue to get paid for such decisions and are very difficult for the concerned shareholders to eliminate from the Board.  Exhibit A is the Boeing Company in recent years.  

 

 

I don't know how a Board of Directors works in the US, it seems to be a little different over here.  

 

 

[TLCOhio]

On 7/10/2022 at 11:30 AM, AmazedByCruising said:

But nowadays I think CEOs are not selected based on how brilliant they are at decision making but how good they are at politics. 

 

Agree many CEO's are better at Board politics and picking their friends to be on these bodies.  The Boards need to hold the executives who fail accountable for their mismanagement. 

 

From the Wall Street Journal late this afternoon, their below chart reflects a new 52-week low today for Royal Caribbean.  Both Carnival and Norwegian dropped down around 5% in value today.  What are the stock finance types seeing and fearing that is ahead for these three major cruise lines?

 

Something does not seem right and/or good for the months ahead??  

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Amazon River-Caribbean 2015 adventure live/blog starting in Barbados. Many visuals from this amazing river and Caribbean Islands (Dutch ABC's, St. Barts, Dominica, Grenada, San Juan, etc.).  Now at 70,109 views:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2157696

 

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

 The Boards need to hold the executives who fail accountable for their mismanagement. 

 

The company that I referenced has not done that!  For some time!  That Board is beginning to get some new "faces", but, what their "political connections" are with the Establishment, how am I to know as a shareholder?  

[TLCOhio]

On 7/11/2022 at 8:46 PM, rkacruiser said:

The company that I referenced has not done that!  For some time!  That Board is beginning to get some new "faces", but, what their "political connections" are with the Establishment, how am I to know as a shareholder?  

 

Yes, corporate boards can be a big part of the "problem" when these folks do not hold failing executives accountable for mis-management. 

 

From the Wall Street Journal Monday afternoon, they had this headline: “Cruises Are the Cheapest Way to Travel This Summer." 

 

Here are a few of their story highlights: “As the cost of hotels, airfares and nearly every other part of the travel experience surges, one industry is cutting: cruises.  There are nearly 2,000 cruises that cost under $100 a day for an interior stateroom through the end of the year.  Meanwhile, the average daily rate for a hotel room was up nearly 20% compared with 2019 levels. Airfares rose almost 13% between April and May alone.”

 

Is this good news for those seeking to cruise?  Yes, sounds great to find more cruise bargains.  BUT, as cruise lines seek to restore profits, pay off billions of dollars in loans, pump up their stock prices, deal with rising fuel-food-labor costs, etc., how will ALL of this work out?  Will this cruise price-cutting cause the cruise company stock price to remain depressed and make it harder for them to raise new cash?  When and how?

 

Full WSJ story at:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cheap-travel-cruises-sales-bargains-11657485614

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio   

 

AFRICA?!!?: Fun, interesting visuals, plus travel details from this early 2016 live/blog. At 52,960 views. Featuring Cape Town, South Africa’s coast, Mozambique, Victoria Falls/Zambia and Botswana's famed Okavango Delta.
www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2310337

[TLCOhio]

Hate to share bad news, but Royal Caribbean just hit a new 52-week low this morning when its stock dropped down to only $31.87 per share.  What is happening?  And, why?  Carnival and Norwegian were down about 2% this morning. RCL is now down 4.11% this morning at 10:18 am.   

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

[TLCOhio]

From this below-connected financial website this morning, they had this headline: “Can Carnival Stock Recover or Are More Rough Waters Ahead?” with these highlights: “It has been one challenge after another for the cruise industry, with more on the horizon.  Bookings and revenue have begun to return, making it tempting to bottom-fish for Carnival stock.  But things aren't always as they seem. In this case, look to the enterprise value to tell the story.”

 

Many details are cited as to the affects of inflation and falling consumer "confidence".  This impacts people's willingness to spend on "luxuries" such as travel, cruises, etc.  In the U.S. this morning, the headline of "U.S. Inflation Hits New Four-Decade High of 9.1%" will make a serious, sobering impact on consumers and their future spending.  

 

Full story at:

https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/07/13/can-carnival-stock-recover-or-are-more-rough-water/

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Kotor/Montenegro:  Exciting visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this scenic, historic location. Over 49,375 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439193

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

In the U.S. this morning, the headline of "U.S. Inflation Hits New Four-Decade High of 9.1%" will make a serious, sobering impact on consumers and their future spending.  

 

As it will for those of us who are investors and open our account statements for June.  

[highplanesdrifters]

It's transitory.

[RetiredandTravel]

52 minutes ago, highplanesdrifters said:

It's transitory.

 

 

Always remember sometimes its darkest before the end

[jpalbny]

18 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

As it will for those of us who are investors and open our account statements for June.  

 

July isn't looking much better! 

[TrulyBlonde]

1 hour ago, jpalbny said:

 

July isn't looking much better! 

I typically check my brokerage account every few days if not daily. I have not even looked this week because it will make me sick to my stomach.

🥲

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, TrulyBlonde said:

I typically check my brokerage account every few days if not daily. I have not even looked this week because it will make me sick to my stomach.

🥲

 

I do not do that.  The Market will do what the Market does and it will impact my investments in whatever way that is.  I am satisfied with what I hold.  There's no good purpose, at least for me, to check frequently.

 

One exception to that is a particular company that I am keeping my eye with the question as to whether I am still satisfied with the company and/or it's performance.  If the stock is down, should I sell and take a loss?  And, if I still like the company, buy it back after the wash rule days are over?