HAL is dirty and crooked

[cccole]

2 hours ago, Nymich said:

It appears your legitimate post has been hijacked by people talking about the airlines.

But the information provided re the airlines is also really helpful since many people taking a cruise need to fly to the port city.  I apprecite the airline info.  Cherie

[Nymich]

29 minutes ago, cccole said:

But the information provided re the airlines is also really helpful since many people taking a cruise need to fly to the port city.  I apprecite the airline info.  Cherie

Yes makes sense but it really does not apply to the OP's concern. It does deflect attention from the fact that NOBODY who paid in full for a March cruise  and HAL was FORCED to cancel has received their refund from HAL.  Important because April, May etc... HAL cancels are lined up right behind them and the disatisfaction will begin to intensify.  

[cccole]

7 minutes ago, Nymich said:

Yes makes sense but it really does not apply to the OP's concern. It does deflect attention from the fact that NOBODY who paid in full for a March cruise  and HAL was FORCED to cancel has received their refund from HAL.  Important because April, May etc... HAL cancels are lined up right behind them and the disatisfaction will begin to intensify.  

I understand and accept your concerns whether airline cancellations should be discussed on this thread.  When one concern is expressed there are often more concerns connected.  I am really happy about the reference to U.S. regs regarding refunding for international flights that I have learned on this thread.  Often a thread can be informmative on several fronts.  I would be crazy if I was expecting a refund under the conditions of the OP and HAL has disappointed me in their response to their passengers' requests.   What a mess.  Cherie  

[npcl]

22 hours ago, Storylady said:

We cancelled as it was our flight from Ft. Lauderdale home after the World Cruise. We have received an e-mail, but so far no refund. I really think that everyone expecting to get their money ASAP is probably a pipe dream. It is going to take time.

I had flights for trips where I had already canceled the cruises.  I did not cancel the flights.  I waited until the airlines canceled or changed.  If they had not I would have waited and canceled on the day of the flight. With the travel limitations most are getting changed.

 

So far 11 flights, 11 refunds.  Have two left, but they are not until August.

[npcl]

I must admit I don't have much sympathy for someone going ahead and paying for a cruise with a final payment date in this time frame.  Then getting upset that it gets canceled.  There is enough information out there that indicates the odds of a cruise going in the next 90 days is slim to none.  And if one were to magically go, it would not resemble the originally booked cruise.

 

It is also clear that cruise lines are still trying to draw in more bookings, deposits, and payments.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by npcl

[iancal]

Don't confuse the great staff on HAL ships with the duds running the show back in the Seattle puzzle palace.

 

I have never been a fan of HAL's corporate folks but neither do I think Mr. Ashford is responsible for world hunger.  HAL was confused before his arrival....no change from my perspective.

 

So while I do not think much of HAL corporate, their on board operations folks are great.  To my way of thinking they greater still because they probably suffer through, and shield luckless customers from far more nonsense than we could ever know.

 

We would never not consider booking a HAL cruise....the right cruise for us on the right ship, right itinerary, and at the right price because the corporate folks have appeared to be duds for so long, including pre Ashford. 

 

 We would consider it because the on board staff is great-as is the staff on other cruise lines.    Besides,  we are customers and have no idea of the day to day business and financial challenges that those in the puzzle palace face.  Especially these days.  We just would not give them any money before we had to and we would never fall for the FCC gag that so many cruise lines are offering.

[rhinomike]

33 minutes ago, npcl said:

I must admit I don't have much sympathy for someone going ahead and paying for a cruise with a final payment date in this time frame.  Then getting upset that it gets canceled.  There is enough information out there that indicates the odds of a cruise going in the next 90 days is slim to none.  And if one were to magically go, it would not resemble the originally booked cruise.

 

It is also clear that cruise lines are still trying to draw in more bookings, deposits, and payments.

 

Maybe clear to you.  But not to everyone. Especially when the cruise lines are saying they will resume cruises in June. Or when you call the actual cruise line right before you make final payment and they tell you that your Cruise is still scheduled and will happen. 

[Storylady]

31 minutes ago, npcl said:

I had flights for trips where I had already canceled the cruises.  I did not cancel the flights.  I waited until the airlines canceled or changed.  If they had not I would have waited and canceled on the day of the flight. With the travel limitations most are getting changed.

 

So far 11 flights, 11 refunds.  Have two left, but they are not until August.

Unfortunately, my flight wasn’t cancelled. So I cancelled so that least I can get a voucher if the refund doesn’t come through. I am not sure anybody on the HAL Board realized the magnitude of the refund situation. For a normal cruise cancellation it would be almost immediately. But we are talking about 14 ships with with approximately 25,000 people on who knows how many cruises during the year. And I am sure the airlines are in the same situation. I am not happy about it, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be to be in charge of satisfying all those customers who are unhappy.

[Caribbean Chris]

I fully expect to lose all of the very large payment we made for a March cruise, a splurge for our 40th anniversary. We received a fast refund ONLY  for payments I had made for shore excursions, a dinner, and onboard WiFi.

 

What makes me especially angry is that HAL has not given us back several hundred dollars in port tax and airline fees. They did not have to pay for those taxes & fees because the cruise did not operate.

 

And, by the way, the same week in March, we also cancelled a paid-in-full November Celebrity cruise. Within one week, every penny of that $5,000+  had been reimbursed to our credit card. 

[cccole]

12 minutes ago, Caribbean Chris said:

I fully expect to lose all of the very large payment we made for a March cruise, a splurge for our 40th anniversary. We received a fast refund ONLY  for payments I had made for shore excursions, a dinner, and onboard WiFi.

 

What makes me especially angry is that HAL has not given us back several hundred dollars in port tax and airline fees. They did not have to pay for those taxes & fees because the cruise did not operate.

 

And, by the way, the same week in March, we also cancelled a paid-in-full November Celebrity cruise. Within one week, every penny of that $5,000+  had been reimbursed to our credit card. 

I'm surprised that you have not been refunded your airline fees because these have been pretty easily received for cancelled flights.  I was especially appreciative of strickerj's post #70 on this thread.  If the flights were cancelled they are required to refund.  Cherie 

[kazu]

2 hours ago, Nymich said:

Yes makes sense but it really does not apply to the OP's concern. It does deflect attention from the fact that NOBODY who paid in full for a March cruise  and HAL was FORCED to cancel has received their refund from HAL.  Important because April, May etc... HAL cancels are lined up right behind them and the disatisfaction will begin to intensify.  

I am probably the one at fault for bringing up airlines.  I did not do so  to hijack the thread but to point out that they too may keep you waiting for you money.  Pretty much anyone associated with travel whether it be cruise lines, airlines, etc are in unprecedented times (yes, I know that word is tiresome) and what was normal refund wise is not right now 😞

As to NO ONE being reimbursed - not quite true.  We cancelled early (March for an April cruise) and only got back 50% but it was credited to our credit card.  Several of our roll call members that I know have also been reimbursed including those that had HAL's CPP.  

 

Sadly, one member has not been yet and they had HAL's platinum CPP. 😞 No idea what is going on but it doesn't seem right.   There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the refunds.

[npcl]

43 minutes ago, rhinomike said:

Maybe clear to you.  But not to everyone. Especially when the cruise lines are saying they will resume cruises in June. Or when you call the actual cruise line right before you make final payment and they tell you that your Cruise is still scheduled and will happen. 

Customer service only knows what their computer tells them.  They do not know what changes are being planned.  The press release will come out at the same time or even before the computers get updated.

 

As people have said repeatedly on these boards, but some apparently do not want to believe:

 

1. The cruise lines need to retain as much of the money they currently hold as they can for as long as they can.

2. The cruise lines need to continue to attract as much money as they can in future bookings and deposits.

 

In order to do 1 and 2.  They are:

 

1. Delaying canceling until the last moment, as long as they can make an case, if sued, that the cruise had a chance of going.

Now you are starting to see more get canceled further out because they can no longer make a reasonable case that there was a chance of them sailing.

 

2. Trying to convert deposits and any other money received to FCCs instead of refunding

 

3. Slow paying refunds. The time it is taking to for refunds to get paid is not due to workload it is by intent due to cash flow management.

 

4. Continuing to leave cruises open for bookings and making good deals to try and get people to book and send them more cash.

 

None of this should be a surprise to anyone reading these board.  Enough people have been saying the same things.  Of course you also have those that cannot believe that the slow cancellations, open bookings, and slow refund payments are anything than the cruise line being overwhelmed by the workload and that HAL would never slow pay intentionally and that if a cruise is open for bookings it must be going to sail.

[DFD1]

4 minutes ago, npcl said:

Customer service only knows what their computer tells them.  They do not know what changes are being planned.  The press release will come out at the same time or even before the computers get updated.

 

As people have said repeatedly on these boards, but some apparently do not want to believe:

 

1. The cruise lines need to retain as much of the money they currently hold as they can for as long as they can.

2. The cruise lines need to continue to attract as much money as they can in future bookings and deposits.

 

In order to do 1 and 2.  They are:

 

1. Delaying canceling until the last moment, as long as they can make an case, if sued, that the cruise had a chance of going.

Now you are starting to see more get canceled further out because they can no longer make a reasonable case that there was a chance of them sailing.

 

2. Trying to convert deposits and any other money received to FCCs instead of refunding

 

3. Slow paying refunds. The time it is taking to for refunds to get paid is not due to workload it is by intent due to cash flow management.

 

4. Continuing to leave cruises open for bookings and making good deals to try and get people to book and send them more cash.

 

None of this should be a surprise to anyone reading these board.  Enough people have been saying the same things.  Of course you also have those that cannot believe that the slow cancellations, open bookings, and slow refund payments are anything than the cruise line being overwhelmed by the workload and that HAL would never slow pay intentionally and that if a cruise is open for bookings it must be going to sail.

 

Well said. You pretty well put it all together. I think your absolutely right.

[Caribbean Chris]

1 hour ago, cccole said:

I'm surprised that you have not been refunded your airline fees because these have been pretty easily received for cancelled flights.  I was especially appreciative of strickerj's post #70 on this thread.  If the flights were cancelled they are required to refund.  Cherie 

HAL booked the flights.

 

[Janet76]

Let’s be honest, CCL don’t have the money to refund us period.

[molemaui]

On 5/7/2020 at 5:47 PM, Tennessee Titan said:

You and tens of thousands of others.

Maybe you never experienced a REAL cash flow problem in your life?? Like no food on the table??

 

There is no way ethically, morally or any other way one can equate a personal cash flow problem like so many are having now to one of a huge corporation. If the information I have read is correct, shame on HAL for the way they do business. Cash flow is often "smoke and mirrors" but they do have access to various lines of credit and other forms of liquidity. I heard many "boasts" from various cruise line CEO's that they can weather the storm with zero revenues. That means taking care of your liabilities as well. 

 

Despite cruise shutdown, they have taken money in "good faith" and are not responding in kind. 

 

I have a future cruise deposit on HAL which I'll probably leave there for a while as I don't want to waste time on the phone. If I decide not to cruise HAL again (which I have not come to that decision yet) I'll simply ask for my money when things calm down. It's only $200 so I'm not too excited.

 

One more point-I cancelled my September cruise with Oceania after all the COVID cancellations and received my money back within a week. A different way of doing business I guess.  

 

 

[Janet76]

We have a friend on canceled Disney Cruise that received a refund within two weeks since request. we feel we will never see our money again.  There is something very wrong about this.  

[Nymich]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

I am probably the one at fault for bringing up airlines.  I did not do so  to hijack the thread but to point out that they too may keep you waiting for you money.  Pretty much anyone associated with travel whether it be cruise lines, airlines, etc are in unprecedented times (yes, I know that word is tiresome) and what was normal refund wise is not right now 😞

As to NO ONE being reimbursed - not quite true.  We cancelled early (March for an April cruise) and only got back 50% but it was credited to our credit card.  Several of our roll call members that I know have also been reimbursed including those that had HAL's CPP.  

 

Sadly, one member has not been yet and they had HAL's platinum CPP. 😞 No idea what is going on but it doesn't seem right.   There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the refunds.

NOBODY who had made full payment for their March Cruise and when HAL was FORCED into a corner and had to cancel has received full refund back to their form of payment.  If this was the case it would be all over these boards and would help to settle things down.  I am not talking about people who SELF cancelled.  This is people who when HAL was put in the corner and had to cancel chose full refund.  NONE of those have been refunded as we enter the 60 day period.  Stay tuned...……………..

 

[cccole]

4 hours ago, Caribbean Chris said:

HAL booked the flights.

 

I understand that, but HAL would have been refunded for the flights so it seems like a no brainer that they would have refunded you.  I'd be unhappy.  Cherie

[Boatdrill]

On 5/8/2020 at 4:55 PM, rhinomike said:

 

Do you know that happened?  Because I have been reading they are cancelling cruises weekly.  Not all at once

 HAL cancelled cruises with departure dates that fell in specific time frames. Here's a recap:

March 13, 2020: Global pause for 30 days. Cancelled sailings that were scheduled to depart through April 14.

March 30: Extended global pause. Cancelled sailings that were scheduled to depart through May 14.

April 14: Extended global pause: Cancelled sailings that were scheduled to depart through June 30.

May 6: Cancelled all 2020 Alaska, Europe, Canada/New England sailings

 

source: HAL press releases and blog

 

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Boatdrill

[YXU AC*SE]

Current list of cancelled HAL cruises -- all 520 rows of it.  https://gohal.com/app/uploads/2020/05/Holland_America_Line_Cancelled_Voyages_050420.xlsx  

 

Scott. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by YXU AC*SE

[richwmn]

On 5/8/2020 at 7:55 PM, rhinomike said:

 

Do you know that happened?  Because I have been reading they are cancelling cruises weekly.  Not all at once

 

15 minutes ago, Boatdrill said:

 HAL cancelled cruises with departure dates that fell in specific time frames. Here's a recap:

March 13, 2020: Global pause for 30 days. Cancelled sailings that were scheduled to depart through April 14.

March 30: Extended global pause. Cancelled sailings that were scheduled to depart through May 14.

April 14: Extended global pause: Cancelled sailings that were scheduled to depart through June 30.

May 6: Cancelled all 2020 Alaska, Europe, Canada/New England sailings

 

source: HAL press releases and blog

 

 

While the cruises were cancelled en mass over the 4 listed dates, the people involved are probably working on the refunds in order of sailing which would give rise to someone saying the cancellations were weekly.

[Boatdrill]

19 minutes ago, richwmn said:

 

While the cruises were cancelled en mass over the 4 listed dates, the people involved are probably working on the refunds in order of sailing which would give rise to someone saying the cancellations were weekly.

Yes,. perhaps that's where the misunderstanding lies.

 

[npcl]

20 hours ago, Storylady said:

Unfortunately, my flight wasn’t cancelled. So I cancelled so that least I can get a voucher if the refund doesn’t come through. I am not sure anybody on the HAL Board realized the magnitude of the refund situation. For a normal cruise cancellation it would be almost immediately. But we are talking about 14 ships with with approximately 25,000 people on who knows how many cruises during the year. And I am sure the airlines are in the same situation. I am not happy about it, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be to be in charge of satisfying all those customers who are unhappy.

I might believe the work load excuse, if we were seeing any consistent flow of refunds in any kind of organized fashion.  It is now almost two months  from the suspension. Even with a manual process the information needed to process refunds are in their systems, except for the customer reply for FCC or refund, and that data can be entered very efficiently.  By this time enough refunds should have been processed such that even if they were going to take an extended time, people would be consistently reporting getting refunds.

 

Almost 2 months in, pretty much zero on the refunds.  Nope the workload excuse doesn't fly.

[nutensteve]

I just received credit for my booked excursions on our cancelled Baltic cruise. It was cancelled on 3/31. At least it is a start.