Please pay your tips!

[skridge]

On 6/3/2020 at 4:02 PM, cruisemom67 said:

We went on Carnival Panorama in January, and we got to know some of the wait staff pretty well.  Something they told us that SHOCKED US is how many people do not pay their tips.  They were working in the "Anytime Dining" area.  They said they had some cruises that left from New York where they did not make any money.  NO ONE tipped.  

 

These people were excellent at what they did.  Even if they weren't, they should still get tips.  That is what they live on.  They don't make money other than that.

 

I know some people say that perhaps the cruise lines should pay them,, and just charge passengers the higher rate.  That is a great idea, but until it happens, these workers are dependent upon you paying your tips.  If you can't afford to pay the tips in addition to the fare, perhaps you shouldn't go on the cruise.  My husband was laid off from a job he had for 20 years (new CEO came in and let go all senior management) right before Christmas.  We cruised in January, paid our tips, and even gave extra to the wait staff who  went above and beyond.  I guarantee you, if you are able to take a cruise, you are living much better than these workers are. 

 

Even if you eat every meal in the buffet, who do you think is cleaning up for you?  Who is getting the food out for you?  You might not be "served" as much as main dining, but someone is still working so that you can eat.

 

Do the right thing:  PAY YOUR TIPS! 

I am sorry you are being treated the way you are on these boards.  That is what many on these boards do.  I am of the opinion you should not be able to remove tips at all.  People will say you can't do that because then it will be a service charge.  Fine, call it a service charge and do not allow cheap people to remove tips.  People try to say it is very few that remove gratuities.  If that is the case why is it that the day gratuities are put on the folio happens to be the day that I see the longest lines at the guest services.  I have been sitting by the water park with my family and had a lady actively try to get me to remove my tips for my kids.  It sickens me that people are so cheap.

[angelsfort]

should we also point out that many of these employees are also receiving free room & board, and likely have no grocery bills to speak of either as most meals are covered too.  (favorite snacks and incidentals is a minor expense)

 

and I believe someone else said that by American standards their wages are not so great but by the standards of where they come from, it is above average pay for them.  Also, the "tipping" positions are a coveted position because they have the potential to make so much more $$ than say, the guy working in the galley cleaning the pots and pans.

 

 

[sanmarcosman]

18 minutes ago, skridge said:

 People will say you can't do that because then it will be a service charge.  Fine, call it a service charge and do not allow cheap people to remove tips.  

People here on Cruise Critic have explained over the years that terminology matters and is not to be taken lightly. If Carnival charges their guests a "service charge" and not "gratuities" the corporation has to pay payroll taxes on those monies and they don't want to.

 

 

[skridge]

Just now, sanmarcosman said:

People here on Cruise Critic have explained over the years that terminology matters and is not to be taken lightly. If Carnival charges their guests a "service charge" and not "gratuities" the corporation has to pay payroll taxes on those monies and they don't want to.

 

 

I don't care anything about terminology.  I take terminology very lightly, and I take people screwing hard working people out of money very seriously.  

[sanmarcosman]

19 hours ago, Oldpeoplecruising said:

I was thinking some BBQ sauce ... maybe some Buccees products.   

 Many, many crew members on Carnival ships are citizens of nations that are predominately of the Muslim faith and I suspect that Bucee's Jerky and other snack foodstuffs are not prepared in accordance with Halal practices and would be tossed. Money on the other hand is sent by the crew to their family at home from the ship frequently via internet transfers throughout their usual 6 month employment contract. 

 

 

[sanmarcosman]

1 minute ago, skridge said:

I don't care anything about terminology.  I take terminology very lightly, and I take people screwing hard working people out of money very seriously.  

I'm saying there is a reason why Carnival will not "call it a service charge." 

[skridge]

1 minute ago, sanmarcosman said:

I'm saying there is a reason why Carnival will not "call it a service charge." 

I do not care what they call it as long as they stop allowing cheap people from being cheap.  All the people with the stance that the workers should be happy with what they get because it is better than they can do in there home countries.  They are working over 90 hours a week waiting on us hand and foot.  I think they should have a chance to make a lot more money than they are able to make in there home country.  

[sanmarcosman]

1 minute ago, skridge said:

I do not care what they call it as long as they stop allowing cheap people from being cheap.  All the people with the stance that the workers should be happy with what they get because it is better than they can do in there home countries.  They are working over 90 hours a week waiting on us hand and foot.  I think they should have a chance to make a lot more money than they are able to make in there home country.  

Did I say hard working people don't deserve to earn good money? 

[Stick93]

4 minutes ago, skridge said:

I do not care what they call it as long as they stop allowing cheap people from being cheap.  All the people with the stance that the workers should be happy with what they get because it is better than they can do in there home countries.  They are working over 90 hours a week waiting on us hand and foot.  I think they should have a chance to make a lot more money than they are able to make in there home country.  

I think you should address this with Carnival - Its there issue to correct.

What we feel or think is irrelevant to their policy .

 

- I'm just saying

[skridge]

23 minutes ago, sanmarcosman said:

I'm saying there is a reason why Carnival will not "call it a service charge." 

I'm saying I don't care what they call it or how it effects their tax situation.  I just know that cheap people should have the tool of their cheapness taken away.  I think it should be almost impossible to remove the tips.

[sanmarcosman]

1 minute ago, skridge said:

I'm saying I don't care what they call it or how it effects their tax situation.  I just know that cheap people should have the tool of their cheapness taken away.  I think it should be almost impossible to remove the tips.

This is what you wrote: " People will say you can't do that because then it will be a service charge.  Fine, call it a service charge..."  I was addressing my remarks to this and only to this, nothing else.

[skridge]

18 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

I think you should address this with Carnival - Its there issue to correct.

What we feel or think is irrelevant to their policy .

 

- I'm just saying

Isn't that we are talking about.  Something that I think should be changed by Carnival.  I'm just sayin.

[angelsfort]

3 minutes ago, skridge said:

I'm saying I don't care what they call it or how it effects their tax situation.  I just know that cheap people should have the tool of their cheapness taken away.  I think it should be almost impossible to remove the tips.

 

you SHOULD care if it affects their "tax situation" - because that "situation" could very well greatly affect the cost of your cruise and what services are included in said cruise.

 

you sound like you're very passionate about this topic, maybe you should take this and run with it and try to make a change for the crew...  find a solution that will positively benefit everyone. (well...  except the cheapo's that want to remove their tips - but THOSE are the people I don't care how it affects)

[skridge]

2 minutes ago, sanmarcosman said:

This is what you wrote: " People will say you can't do that because then it will be a service charge.  Fine, call it a service charge..."  I was addressing my remarks to this and only to this, nothing else.

It is not a hard concept to grasp.  I don't care what you call it stop allowing people to remove gratuities.

[skridge]

4 minutes ago, angelsfort said:

 

you SHOULD care if it affects their "tax situation" - because that "situation" could very well greatly affect the cost of your cruise and what services are included in said cruise.

 

you sound like you're very passionate about this topic, maybe you should take this and run with it and try to make a change for the crew...  find a solution that will positively benefit everyone. (well...  except the cheapo's that want to remove their tips - but THOSE are the people I don't care how it affects)

I don't.

[john91498]

It amazes me how many tip threads pop up...talk about beating a dead horse...

Edited June 5, 2020 by john91498

[Organized Chaos]

20 hours ago, Oldpeoplecruising said:

 I keep getting conflicting stories about if the prepaid gratuities include the porters, but I had planned on slipping them something a little extra too anyway.   

 

Porters are employed by the cruise terminal, not the cruise line. They don't get a share of Carnival's gratuities.

 

13 hours ago, 1025cruise said:

The prepaid gratuities cover your room steward and the dining staff.

 

I just wanted to clarify that the daily gratuities go to more people than just the stewards and wait staff. There's also people behind the scenes that get a share. Who gets a share has been listed on here many times, but I forget exactly who.

 

11 hours ago, sc4125 said:

I too find it hard to believe that every guest they waited on removed the auto tips; however for those saying that crewmembers are paid at minimum wage, I'm pretty sure that is not the case. 

 

Years ago I was a purser/paymaster onboard.  At that time cabin stewards and waiters were paid $45 on the 15th and 30th of every month - $90 per month for well over 300 hours work.  I'm not sure exactly what they are paid now, but I can almost guarantee that is far, far lower than the minimum wage in the U.S.  I'm not sure what the minimum wage was at that time (mid 1980's) but I know that it was far higher than less than 30 cents per hour that they were being paid.

 

They certainly make more than that now. Much more. And as I said in another post, it isn't fair to compare their wages to the U.S. Their home economies are much more different that the U.S. Even without tips, they make a good wage compared to what they could back home. Is it a "fair" wage? That's not for any of us to decide.

[Organized Chaos]

I think there's only one real solution to the gratuities issue. I think everyone should mind their own business. Stop worrying about what others are tipping and stop trying to tell other people what to tip.

[Oldpeoplecruising]

16 minutes ago, Organized Chaos said:

I think there's only one real solution to the gratuities issue. I think everyone should mind their own business. Stop worrying about what others are tipping and stop trying to tell other people what to tip.

I am with you there.    SMDH.      I look at it this way.    What each person does is between them and the person that assists them.   What ever they choose to do, they will be held accountable one day.    Be that in a negative or a positive way.     Karma is a ____________.

[chengkp75]

I typically don't do tipping threads, but it is a change these days.

 

As a previous poster stated, before 2013, most front of house, front line crew (cabin stewards, wait staff) did receive about $90/month as salary, and the rest from the DSC (regardless of line, I do not call it gratuities).  Since the enactment of the MLC 2006 convention in 2013, it would not surprise me to see that the "wage" portion of these crew members' compensation package has not increase much above the $100/month, and the remainder being DSC.  However, MLC mandates a minimum wage for seafarers of $615/month, based on a 40 hour work week.  Now, crew are not paid hourly wages, but this minimum wage is broken down to an hourly wage, so that hours in excess of 40/week are paid at 125% of the minimum hourly wage.  I won't go into the math, but this means that a typical cabin steward working 12 hours/day makes about $1200-1400/month.  As per their contract, this is not spelled out in hourly terms, but is considered to be "consolidated wages" per the MLC, meaning that after the hourly calculations are done, the compensation is shown as a single or couple of numbers on their payslip.  Of this $1200/month, it will show "salary" of $100/month, and DSC of $1100/month.  The only guarantee the crew member has is of the statutory minimum of $615, so depending on how many passengers remove the DSC, that particular crew member could earn between $1200 to $615 per month.  If "everyone" removed or adjusted the DSC, and the wage fell below the $615/month figure, then the cruise line has to step in an make up any difference up to the $615.  Prior to 2013, there was no minimum that the cruise line had to meet.  The terms of the crew contract are agreed to by the cruise line and the collective bargaining agency in the crew member's home country to allow the consolidated wage to be broken into a "salary" and "DSC" component, and the DSC component to be based on customer satisfaction.

[skridge]

1 hour ago, skridge said:

I never said nor did I imply you didn't value there hard work.  I simply was saying as a fact I very much do.  I don't do "straw man arguments."  I simply state facts as I see them.  For example,  workers working Butts off to wait on us hand and foot.  I see that as a fact.  The reason I see that as a fact is because I have eyes and a brain and I take them with me on my cruise.  I think those people that are working so hard should receive protection against cheap people.  That is why I am so vocal on threads about tipping.  I have a very few things about cruising I care about more than tipping.  

I am going to amend this.  I was in a rush to get to the gym.  I have plenty of things about cruising that I care about more than tipping.  I just care a lot about it because I think people should be compensated  for hard work.  I believe when people remove tips on cruise ships it screws hard working people and I don't like that.  I feel the same about restaurant servers on land.  Just trying to cover the bases of all the responses I feel pretty certain will be coming.

[PhillyFan33579]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I typically don't do tipping threads, but it is a change these days.

 

As a previous poster stated, before 2013, most front of house, front line crew (cabin stewards, wait staff) did receive about $90/month as salary, and the rest from the DSC (regardless of line, I do not call it gratuities).  Since the enactment of the MLC 2006 convention in 2013, it would not surprise me to see that the "wage" portion of these crew members' compensation package has not increase much above the $100/month, and the remainder being DSC.  However, MLC mandates a minimum wage for seafarers of $615/month, based on a 40 hour work week.  Now, crew are not paid hourly wages, but this minimum wage is broken down to an hourly wage, so that hours in excess of 40/week are paid at 125% of the minimum hourly wage.  I won't go into the math, but this means that a typical cabin steward working 12 hours/day makes about $1200-1400/month.  As per their contract, this is not spelled out in hourly terms, but is considered to be "consolidated wages" per the MLC, meaning that after the hourly calculations are done, the compensation is shown as a single or couple of numbers on their payslip.  Of this $1200/month, it will show "salary" of $100/month, and DSC of $1100/month.  The only guarantee the crew member has is of the statutory minimum of $615, so depending on how many passengers remove the DSC, that particular crew member could earn between $1200 to $615 per month.  If "everyone" removed or adjusted the DSC, and the wage fell below the $615/month figure, then the cruise line has to step in an make up any difference up to the $615.  Prior to 2013, there was no minimum that the cruise line had to meet.  The terms of the crew contract are agreed to by the cruise line and the collective bargaining agency in the crew member's home country to allow the consolidated wage to be broken into a "salary" and "DSC" component, and the DSC component to be based on customer satisfaction.

Great information as always!

[ninjacat123]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I typically don't do tipping threads, but it is a change these days.

THANK YOU!  You answered my question and I've learned so much from your posts.

[Nic6318]

17 hours ago, Rob-Bob said:

Interesting.  I have been on 18 cruises and never has any of the staff discussed tips with me.  Not how much they receive, how much they have been ripped off, how much they did or didn't make.  I wonder how they pick guests that they share their details with?

 

Hi

So, this would be my take on it. I had already mentioned, that I believe many people who rely on tips to augment their income will on occasion, if they feel it may benefit them, will use a well known tactic which is commonly referred to as a "sob story. Everything they say may very well be true, but it is not necessary. 

 

To your actual question on how they pick the individuals they relate these stories to, I will point out that these individuals are dealing with hundreds if not thousands of different people every week. They often have been in similar situations for years. Now, I would also suggest that if you dealt with that many people daily in a casual setting where they are more than happy to interact, you too would be able to pick out people that you felt that, if you spent just a little more time in conversation with, might just come up with a "little something extra for you". You know this isn't the norm. You can tell, because it doesn't happen all the time. Especially, if what they are saying isn't quite the truth. Most employers don't approve of that. There are always people who are going to try and game the system. There is always one, no matter where you work.

 

Don't forget, this is actually part of their job, it cost them nothing. After all they are outgoing personalities and they are having pleasant conversations with the clients. If they don't get anything extra, they haven't lost anything. Next week, there will be a bunch of different people. 

[HxFx]

13 hours ago, sanger727 said:

A gift is something you give to friends or family where you know them and can somewhat anticipate what they would like.

That was my first thought too.