FCO advises against all cruise travel, today

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, PRINCESSTHE BEST said:

I think the FCO have got it spot on. There is no way in the foreseeable future that cruising will be safe. My biggest worry is the air conditioning systems on board. Any virus that is present will be pushed around the ship and passengers will have no choice but to breath the air. We have all seen illnesses on board and tried to protect ourselves, from Arcadia cough to norovirus. Compared to coronavirus these illnesses are insignificant. 
 

I honestly don’t think enough is known about this virus to feel safe in stepping on board, leaving our fantastic NHS behind and sailing into the great unknown.

I think you're being over alarmist, I dont believe that the aircon is a major problem, and there is talk that many cruise lines intend to install HEPA filters to make it even safer. And we do know an enormous amount more about the virus now than we did at the start of the pandemic, which can only mean things will get much better.

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

3 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think you're being over alarmist, I dont believe that the aircon is a major problem, and there is talk that many cruise lines intend to install HEPA filters to make it even safer. And we do know an enormous amount more about the virus now than we did at the start of the pandemic, which can only mean things will get much better.

Perhaps I am, but I’m not prepared to risk my life or get a life changing medical condition for the sake of a holiday. Perhaps I am more fortunate than most in having done a couple of world cruises, so I am happy to monitor others and see how they get on before I take the plunge. I may well buy a new BMW instead.

[cruisenewbie1976]

28 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think you're being over alarmist, I dont believe that the aircon is a major problem, and there is talk that many cruise lines intend to install HEPA filters to make it even safer. And we do know an enormous amount more about the virus now than we did at the start of the pandemic, which can only mean things will get much better.

Not to mention some very good news on the Oxford vaccine that's coming this week allegedly *prepares for someone to say it'll take years for everyone to be vaccinated* 😉

[wowzz]

34 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think you're being over alarmist, I dont believe that the aircon is a major problem, and there is talk that many cruise lines intend to install HEPA filters to make it even safer. And we do know an enormous amount more about the virus now than we did at the start of the pandemic, which can only mean things will get much better.

John,  I totally agree (!). I would worry far more about being forced into close proximity with other people, rather than a/c, especially with the installation of improved filters.

If people start worrying about a/c, they basically will never go into any public space that has a/c. That's no way to lead your life.

[wowzz]

9 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

Not to mention some very good news on the Oxford vaccine that's coming this week allegedly *prepares for someone to say it'll take years for everyone to be vaccinated* 😉

So, if you are vaccinated you will still be a carrier, but not suffer any symptoms. That doesn't really help the cruise industry, until all the ports they visit have inhabitants that also have been vaccinated. 

Still a long way to go I believe.

[terrierjohn]

6 minutes ago, wowzz said:

So, if you are vaccinated you will still be a carrier, but not suffer any symptoms. That doesn't really help the cruise industry, until all the ports they visit have inhabitants that also have been vaccinated. 

Still a long way to go I believe.

I lost you after the first line wowzz, hopefully any new announcement will shed more light on your comments.

[mercury7289]

47 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think you're being over alarmist, I dont believe that the aircon is a major problem, and there is talk that many cruise lines intend to install HEPA filters to make it even safer. And we do know an enormous amount more about the virus now than we did at the start of the pandemic, which can only mean things will get much better.

We know it kills!

 

14th June 2020 1.967 million active cases in the world

15th July  2020 5.063 million active cases in the world

 

So if we know so much about it, why is it growing!

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I lost you after the first line wowzz, hopefully any new announcement will shed more light on your comments.

Cruisenewbie1976 commented on the Oxford vaccine, and the said he/she was waiting for someone to comment on how long it would take for everyone to be vaccinated.

My reply was in response. Even if everyone in the UK gets vaccinated, we could still carry the disease.  Therefore, until other nations also have a thorough vaccination programme,  British cruisers will still not be welcome in foreign ports.

Does that make sense? 

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

We know it kills!

 

14th June 2020 1.967 million active cases in the world

15th July  2020 5.063 million active cases in the world

 

So if we know so much about it, why is it growing!

But it is not necessarily growing because of air conditioning - air conditioning is far less of an issue than social interaction and surface contamination. 

[mercury7289]

Just now, wowzz said:

But it is not necessarily growing because of air conditioning - air conditioning is far less of an issue than social interaction and surface contamination. 

wowzz

 

I did not say it was, I  do not have any experience in that field.

 

Its all gobbledygook to me.

 

I was putting the point that if we know so much about it, why is it winning!

 

[terrierjohn]

6 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Cruisenewbie1976 commented on the Oxford vaccine, and the said he/she was waiting for someone to comment on how long it would take for everyone to be vaccinated.

My reply was in response. Even if everyone in the UK gets vaccinated, we could still carry the disease.  Therefore, until other nations also have a thorough vaccination programme,  British cruisers will still not be welcome in foreign ports.

Does that make sense? 

No, AFAIK vaccination does not make you infectious, my understanding is the vaccine contains only dead calls, but they still trigger antibodies to protect you from the virus.

[wowzz]

11 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

No, AFAIK vaccination does not make you infectious, my understanding is the vaccine contains only dead calls, but they still trigger antibodies to protect you from the virus.

Agree,but could you not still contract the virus from someone else, and be a carrier, even though you yourself will be asymptomatic, thanks to the vaccine. 

[wowzz]

13 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

wowzz

 

I did not say it was, I  do not have any experience in that field.

 

Its all gobbledygook to me.

 

I was putting the point that if we know so much about it, why is it winning!

 

Its winning because those countries seeing enormous growth in cases are not following correct protocols  - eg Brazil, Russua, Mexico, parts of the US etc.

Everyone now knows how to stop it spreading,  but there is a difference between knowledge and practice.

[Harry Peterson]

In reality even the scientists and the medics know very little about this very new virus, compared with what they’d like and need to know. And we, of course, know a lot less than that.

 

So many theories, so few of them peer reviewed.

 

Each of us will make her/his mind up, based on what we see as the facts, the risks, and our own personal circumstances.

 

For me, the greatest risk is an outbreak onboard, and getting stuck on the ship for an indeterminate period with very limited medical facilities.

 

Others may feel differently.

 

Harry

[mercury7289]

18 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Its winning because those countries seeing enormous growth in cases are not following correct protocols  - eg Brazil, Russua, Mexico, parts of the US etc.

Everyone now knows how to stop it spreading,  but there is a difference between knowledge and practice.

Do not necessarily disagree, although I am not aware, of the way that these countries are dealing with it, or trying to deal with it.

All I am saying is that there is a lot of it out there, and it is growing worldwide.

 

[zap99]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

But it is not necessarily growing because of air conditioning - air conditioning is far less of an issue than social interaction and surface contamination. 

Not being an expert, how will the total ever be less than it is now?🤔

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I think you're being over alarmist, I dont believe that the aircon is a major problem, and there is talk that many cruise lines intend to install HEPA filters to make it even safer. And we do know an enormous amount more about the virus now than we did at the start of the pandemic, which can only mean things will get much better.

What we do know is that coronavirus is spread by aerosol (As well as droplets and contaminated surfaces) and these can remain in the air much longer in doors. We know a lot about how the virus not only attacks the respiratory system,  but also the kidneys, the liver and other vital organs. I have read nothing in the media or elsewhere that puts my mind at rest for embarking on a cruise,  where there is limited medical help and specialist help is possibly thousands of miles away.

Anyone booking a cruise since March will have no travel insurance and will be playing Russian roulette with their health and finances. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by PRINCESSTHE BEST

[mercury7289]

13 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Not being an expert, how will the total ever be less than it is now?🤔

What?

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

Agree,but could you not still contract the virus from someone else, and be a carrier, even though you yourself will be asymptomatic, thanks to the vaccine. 

If that was the case surely we would never have wiped out smallpox and polio!??!!??

[davecttr]

I am confused, if you get vaccinated it protects you against getting the disease. As your immune system is already primed when the viral particles enter your system your body has a head start on killing them before they can reproduce. If they don't reproduce you can't infect anybody?

 

How long a vaccine gives you protection for is another question, How long do flu vaccines work for?

 

Apparently there are now several strains of the virus as mutation is a normal result of it reproducing. Luckily for us it has not mutated into a more lethal version yet, it might, it might not and I think the mutations in its genetic code are just random effects, either good or bad.

[cruisenewbie1976]

Great news that the FCO is now allowing river cruises. Just goes to show how quickly the guidance can (and will) change. 

[jeanlyon]

I don't think that's right about being a carrier when you are vaccinated.  I don't think you carry the flu when you are vaccinated?  I do think there is a problem with the aircon.  The aircon on an aircraft is far better than that on the ships.  Saw a programme on that very subject.  

[jeanlyon]

Where does it say river cruises are OK.  Find that hard to believe, as it's just as bad - lots of people all together on a small vessel.

[cruisenewbie1976]

28 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Where does it say river cruises are OK.  Find that hard to believe, as it's just as bad - lots of people all together on a small vessel.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/river-cruising-cruises-holiday-foreign-office-advice-a9622686.html%3famp

[Harry Peterson]

3 hours ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

Great news that the FCO is now allowing river cruises. Just goes to show how quickly the guidance can (and will) change. 

Not sure that the guidance has changed.  It’s as it was on 9 July when the advice not to cruise was issued, and that talks about sea-going cruise ships. Confusingly though, the next paragraph would exclude river cruises where country borders are crossed.

 

Only guidance of course, but there are insurance implications.

 

“The Foreign & Commonwealth Office advises against cruise ship travel at this time. This is due to the ongoing pandemic and is based on medical advice from Public Health England.

 

Cruise ship travel means staying overnight for at least 1 night on a sea-going cruise ship with people from multiple households.

 

Our advice against cruises applies to international travel on a ship that is exclusively for pleasure or recreation, providing overnight accommodation and other leisure facilities such as entertainment venues or swimming pools.

 

Our advice does not include ferries or privately-rented boats.

The government will continue to review its cruise ship travel advice based on the latest medical advice.”