Omg. Fred have bought the 2 flagships of Holland America! We finally get decent sized ships in the UK!

[tring]

7 hours ago, ovccruiser said:

Aren't you lot impatient 😄  8 months away at least before your cruise and you can't wait a month to find your cabin, makes me smile 😄

 

I can see your point on the face of it.  However given the experience posted by Britboys above, along with the fact that many more posts about similar experiences of cabin changes are being posted elsewhere, you may start to understand why people are not at all happy.  Fred seems to have entered an extremely silly season, to say the least.

[Britboys]

34 minutes ago, tring said:

 

I can see your point on the face of it.  However given the experience posted by Britboys above, along with the fact that many more posts about similar experiences of cabin changes are being posted elsewhere, you may start to understand why people are not at all happy.  Fred seems to have entered an extremely silly season, to say the least.

It just seems completely illogical to me that they are allocating new cabins and giving pax their new cabin numbers (which seem to correspond with current HAL cabin numbers) but then say the deck plans are not available yet 🤔🤪

[Britboys]

47 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Oh no.  That sounds an extremely bad deal, sorting cabin alone certainly does not anything like deal with the matter from what we can see, given the level of your disappointment.  Does that mean you will not even be visiting Amsterdam or Keil for Keil Week, which I think it was?  Have you mentioned this on the other site were posts are being made? 

 

 

Fortunately we are still in Kiel during Kiel Week but not for an overnight. It is just very disappointing that, when the publicity for this itinerary really pushed the fact that we would be doing a double transit of the canal, we are now not even getting one transit. I've never been through the canal, nor been on Boudicca so the changes are a double whammy for me. I haven't mentioned it on their faceache page yet. I prefer to deal with them direct in the first instance.

[tring]

1 minute ago, Britboys said:

Fortunately we are still in Kiel during Kiel Week but not for an overnight. It is just very disappointing that, when the publicity for this itinerary really pushed the fact that we would be doing a double transit of the canal, we are now not even getting one transit. I've never been through the canal, nor been on Boudicca so the changes are a double whammy for me. I haven't mentioned it on their faceache page yet. I prefer to deal with them direct in the first instance.

You may have more interest in changing to a cruise on a ship that does go through the canal, though the whole lot is totally unsatisfactory as you say.  Compensation for your disapointment is definitely in order.  Overnights in port are rare and something that is a major plus for us and Amsterdam is great at night.  Kiel week will be buzzing at night as well, as long as the virus is in order by then of course.

 

 

[rkacruiser]

On 8/28/2020 at 6:37 AM, Britboys said:

 I am however concerned at how they are dealing with the ships changes.

 

As a long time HAL cruiser, I have been following this Thread with much interest.  The frustration with the uncertainties that you are experiencing with Fred. Olsen mirrors the frustrations that many of us HAL cruisers have had with Holland America Line in recent years.  I sympathize.  I really do.

 

Just a thought, if you will consider it.  Fred. Olsen's acquisitions of the Rotterdam and Amsterdam, in my opinion, has to be considered "very quick" in business terms.  HAL would not have parted with these ships at this time if it were not due to the impact of the pandemic.  Fred. Olsen's decision to buy these ships probably provided extraordinarily short time for their Company to work out all of the "details" relating to such a purchase when it included the retiring of two of their ships and the canceling of their voyages.  I read a reference on one post that wondered if "those in charge of the Company know what they are doing".  Those of us on this side of the pond have wondered the same thing about those in charge of HAL at times.

 

I know little about Fred. Olsen, but my opinion is that it is a quality British company.  Just as HAL is a quality American company.  HAL has had growing pain issues "digesting" the arrival of new ships.  Fred. Olsen may be suffering the same affliction.  

 

For what it is worth, be patient.  Be pleasant with those of the Company with whom you contact.  If those Fred. Olsen employees are like those of HAL who are in customer service/contact, they know only what they have been told.  And, at least for HAL, what they know is sometimes less than what some of us know.

 

 

[JMyrtle]

I have also received the condescending letter telling me they have automatically transferred us to the new ship with a cabin " as close as possible to what you had previously booked" and that when cruises go on sale they will be higher priced. 

My new cabin has also moved from lowest deck midships to lowest deck right at the stern and from the wording  of the letter I wonder if my new cabins position reflects its cost band on the new ship rather than its actual position on Boudicca which is what I had expected to retain..

Far from from charging me more I would expect an upgrade when I change, as others have pointed out a contract is a contract and this is a major change to a much larger ship I don't particularly wish to be on. 

Ovccruiser has missed the point I think, it's not that we want to know what cabins we have a year in advance we want to be sure we are not being stitched up in the change over. 

We spent time and effort choosing our original cabin and we should be given the courtesy of doing the same when we are relocated to the new ships. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by JMyrtle

[Britboys]

59 minutes ago, tring said:

You may have more interest in changing to a cruise on a ship that does go through the canal, though the whole lot is totally unsatisfactory as you say.  Compensation for your disapointment is definitely in order.  Overnights in port are rare and something that is a major plus for us and Amsterdam is great at night.  Kiel week will be buzzing at night as well, as long as the virus is in order by then of course.

 

 

Sadly, there are now almost no small ships in the mid-market range of the cruise industry - they are all in the luxury category, which is not within my cruise budget.

[Britboys]

52 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

As a long time HAL cruiser, I have been following this Thread with much interest.  The frustration with the uncertainties that you are experiencing with Fred. Olsen mirrors the frustrations that many of us HAL cruisers have had with Holland America Line in recent years.  I sympathize.  I really do.

 

Just a thought, if you will consider it.  Fred. Olsen's acquisitions of the Rotterdam and Amsterdam, in my opinion, has to be considered "very quick" in business terms.  HAL would not have parted with these ships at this time if it were not due to the impact of the pandemic.  Fred. Olsen's decision to buy these ships probably provided extraordinarily short time for their Company to work out all of the "details" relating to such a purchase when it included the retiring of two of their ships and the canceling of their voyages.  I read a reference on one post that wondered if "those in charge of the Company know what they are doing".  Those of us on this side of the pond have wondered the same thing about those in charge of HAL at times.

 

I know little about Fred. Olsen, but my opinion is that it is a quality British company.  Just as HAL is a quality American company.  HAL has had growing pain issues "digesting" the arrival of new ships.  Fred. Olsen may be suffering the same affliction.  

 

For what it is worth, be patient.  Be pleasant with those of the Company with whom you contact.  If those Fred. Olsen employees are like those of HAL who are in customer service/contact, they know only what they have been told.  And, at least for HAL, what they know is sometimes less than what some of us know.

 

 

Indeed, this has happened very quickly and Fred Olsen has (quite sensibly) taken advantage of a very good deal from Carnival Corp in order to update and enlarge their fleet. I am sure the majority of the cruises are unaffected by the change of ship. Sadly, communication to those of us on amended voyages has been very poor.

I spent almost 14 years in front-facing customer services, so rest assured that I will treat the staff with every respect.

[Britboys]

45 minutes ago, JMyrtle said:

I have also received the condescending letter telling me they have automatically transferred us to the new ship with a cabin " as close as possible to what you had previously booked" and that when cruises go on sale they will be higher priced. 

My new cabin has also moved from lowest deck midships to lowest deck right at the stern and from the wording  of the letter I wonder if my new cabins position reflects its cost band on the new ship rather than its actual position on Boudicca which is what I had expected to retain..

Far from from charging me more I would expect an upgrade when I change, as others have pointed out a contract is a contract and this is a major change to a much larger ship I don't particularly wish to be on. 

Ovccruiser has missed the point I think, it's not that we want to know what cabins we have a year in advance we want to be sure we are not being stitched up in the change over. 

We spent time and effort choosing our original cabin and we should be given the courtesy of doing the same when we are relocated to the new ships. 

Very well explained and I very much agree with you.

[tring]

1 hour ago, Britboys said:

Very well explained and I very much agree with you.

 

I was also thinking that people are being put in the cheaper cabins, rather than an equivalent position. As we have a deck 3 inside booked I expect we will have a similar experience. 

 

Fred seems to have missed the point that he needs us to agree to any change which is not insignificant (Package Travel Regs.).  In fact because of that we are entitled to compensation as well as a refund if we do not want to go ahead with our cruises on the new ships, even if the itineraries remain the same which cannot be the case with all cruises as we know.  He also seems to be intending to deal with people on an individual basis, which means it will be difficult for some customers who do not understand their rights.

 

His T&C's cannot override our legal rights which he acknowledges in them.  

 

If he intends charging more for cabins on the new ships, it does not bode well for his future bookings IMO, though his prices have always been high at launch, with reductions later according to how well a cruise has booked. 

 

He really does need to get his act together on this, as said previously, if he does not want to lose the benefit he has gained from his good customer service so far.

Edited August 29, 2020 by tring

[tring]

1 hour ago, Britboys said:

Sadly, there are now almost no small ships in the mid-market range of the cruise industry - they are all in the luxury category, which is not within my cruise budget.

There will still be Keil crossings on Braemar and Balmoral, but perhaps not from your preferred port.

[Colin_Cameron]

On 8/28/2020 at 9:53 PM, JMyrtle said:

I thought they would be keeping the cabin numbers otherwise as you say it would mean replacing them all on the cabin doors

I've not sailed on HAL so I don't know, but on a number of lines the cabin number is incorporated into those envelope/daily programme holders. Which usually include some form of ship or company logo.

 

So they may have to be replaced anyway. And if you're going to replace them, it's no more difficult to change the numbers.

 

Having sailed in one particular cabin six times, we came home from the final voyage of the ship before it was sold with the cabin number (Now on our bedroom door).  The 'number' didn't get changed, but had to be replaced because of the company logo.

[Britboys]

11 hours ago, tring said:

There will still be Keil crossings on Braemar and Balmoral, but perhaps not from your preferred port.

Indeed - but they also may be few and far between. As of now, there is only one cruise that features a crossing of the canal. It will be interesting to see the 2022 itineraries when launched.

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, Colin_Cameron said:

I've not sailed on HAL so I don't know, but on a number of lines the cabin number is incorporated into those envelope/daily programme holders. Which usually include some form of ship or company logo.

 

So they may have to be replaced anyway. And if you're going to replace them, it's no more difficult to change the numbers.

 

Having sailed in one particular cabin six times, we came home from the final voyage of the ship before it was sold with the cabin number (Now on our bedroom door).  The 'number' didn't get changed, but had to be replaced because of the company logo.

True but as well as the cabin door number, if they did actually change the numbers of the cabins, they would have to replace all the signs on each deck in cabin corridors and all the ship 'maps' that are on the walls in all the lift/stairwell lobbies too. Not impossible by any means but an unnecessary expense, especially in the current financial climate.

[tring]

1 hour ago, Britboys said:

Indeed - but they also may be few and far between. As of now, there is only one cruise that features a crossing of the canal. It will be interesting to see the 2022 itineraries when launched.

 

Yes 2022 itineraries will be interesting as well as revamped ones that were already scheduled, though anything when they first start could be changed yet again next year.  Fred's new cruises tend to come out in March, so could be a while until we see the full range, though a lot of drip feeding of specific offerings is increasingly happening.

 

I had not looked in detail at the newer brochure, which was only released in eary March this year (so we all had other things in mind at the time), but as well as the cruise we have booked for next July, he had planned a lot of up river and smaller ports on Boudicca and Black Watch, when the so called "river" cruises etc. were mainly confined to Braemar previously.  That is possibly being regretted now as it could mean a fair number of changes for the new ships which would have not been needed in previous years.  I think Keil was always done by all his ships at times, so I do not think that was a big change, but yes I was surprised there were not more Keil offerings on the other ships - perhaps something to do with cost of the crossing.  Since Braemar started the "river" itineraries, cruises like that always commanded a premium and sold well too, so perhaps another reason for the change and visiting the same port more often probably yields better prices for Fred regards trips and perhaps even the docking fees.  Comes a day when a lot of people have already done those itineraries though.  

[JMyrtle]

I suspect that many of you have had your cruises booked on Black Watch or Boudicca for some time so had their booking confirmed months ago. 

Our cruise on Boudicca to go to Iceland next June was only booked on the 31st of July this year to replace one on Columbus which was eventually refunded by Saga following the admiration of C&MV

Saga dragged their feet and only refunded us the extra we paid them as the cruise was more expensive but not the value of a C&MV credit note we also used which was given to us in compensation for a failed cruise last year so we were already out of pocket. 

Yes, this cruise every time we rebooked it has been very unlucky in every way! 

 Now to my way of thinking as this was booked on the 31st of July Fred's management must have known they were selling a product they had no intention of delivering. 

I am not for one minute suggesting that this at the same level as an airline selling flights they know will never take off because they are about to go into receivership but the principle is still the same. 

The management but probably not the sales personnel knew they were not going to deliver the cruises  being booked so were not honest and up front with my agent at the point of sale which could probably also be considered to be misrepresentation, at the very least an upgrade should be forthcoming. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by JMyrtle

[Colin_Cameron]

2 hours ago, Britboys said:

... they would have to replace all the signs on each deck in cabin corridors and all the ship 'maps' that are on the walls in all the lift/stairwell lobbies too. ...

Again, I don't know. But I would be surprised if they don't also include the ship's name, or the cruise line name, or a logo of some sort, so will be getting changed anyway.

[ovccruiser]

3 hours ago, Britboys said:

True but as well as the cabin door number, if they did actually change the numbers of the cabins, they would have to replace all the signs on each deck in cabin corridors and all the ship 'maps' that are on the walls in all the lift/stairwell lobbies too. Not impossible by any means but an unnecessary expense, especially in the current financial climate.

I am guessing they will be doing that anyway, I doubt HAL's deck naming complies with Fred's so they will need to be changed. 

 

It is also possible Fred may be adding some cabins, hence the numbering problems. For example HAL catered for the US market and had large casinos compared to Fred, it will be interesting to see what they do with them. 

[cruzingnut]

14 minutes ago, ovccruiser said:

I am guessing they will be doing that anyway, I doubt HAL's deck naming complies with Fred's so they will need to be changed. 

 

It is also possible Fred may be adding some cabins, hence the numbering problems. For example HAL catered for the US market and had large casinos compared to Fred, it will be interesting to see what they do with them. 

 

Maybe your "Pub" that someone mentioned could go where the casino was.  There are no cabins on that level and there is a bar right next to it so that could work.  I'm hoping that once you all get onboard, you'll take pictures so we (former Amsterdam/Rotterdam fans) can see what Fred has done.  For me, a pub would have been great as I'm not a casino person.

Edited August 30, 2020 by cruzingnut

[Britboys]

3 hours ago, tring said:

 

Yes 2022 itineraries will be interesting as well as revamped ones that were already scheduled, though anything when they first start could be changed yet again next year.  Fred's new cruises tend to come out in March, so could be a while until we see the full range, though a lot of drip feeding of specific offerings is increasingly happening.

 

I had not looked in detail at the newer brochure, which was only released in eary March this year (so we all had other things in mind at the time), but as well as the cruise we have booked for next July, he had planned a lot of up river and smaller ports on Boudicca and Black Watch, when the so called "river" cruises etc. were mainly confined to Braemar previously.  That is possibly being regretted now as it could mean a fair number of changes for the new ships which would have not been needed in previous years.  I think Keil was always done by all his ships at times, so I do not think that was a big change, but yes I was surprised there were not more Keil offerings on the other ships - perhaps something to do with cost of the crossing.  Since Braemar started the "river" itineraries, cruises like that always commanded a premium and sold well too, so perhaps another reason for the change and visiting the same port more often probably yields better prices for Fred regards trips and perhaps even the docking fees.  Comes a day when a lot of people have already done those itineraries though.  

Yes, it will indeed be interesting. Fred has become known not only for small ships but also for interesting and varied itineraries. Hopefully they will find a way to continue that.

[Britboys]

2 hours ago, JMyrtle said:

I suspect that many of you have had your cruises booked on Black Watch or Boudicca for some time so had their booking confirmed months ago. 

Our cruise on Boudicca to go to Iceland next June was only booked on the 31st of July this year to replace one on Columbus which was eventually refunded by Saga following the admiration of C&MV

Saga dragged their feet and only refunded us the extra we paid them as the cruise was more expensive but not the value of a C&MV credit note we also used which was given to us in compensation for a failed cruise last year so we were already out of pocket. 

Yes, this cruise every time we rebooked it has been very unlucky in every way! 

 Now to my way of thinking as this was booked on the 31st of July Fred's management must have known they were selling a product they had no intention of delivering. 

I am not for one minute suggesting that this at the same level as an airline selling flights they know will never take off because they are about to go into receivership but the principle is still the same. 

The management but probably not the sales personnel knew they were not going to deliver the cruises  being booked so were not honest and up front with my agent at the point of sale which could probably also be considered to be misrepresentation, at the very least an upgrade should be forthcoming. 

Ours was a replacement for a similar cruise on Boudicca this May cancelled for obvious reasons. It seems that you can still book ours online, even though the itinerary is now very different from that on the website. At least the Kiel Canal cruise in April now states "Please call for details".

[Britboys]

2 hours ago, Colin_Cameron said:

Again, I don't know. But I would be surprised if they don't also include the ship's name, or the cruise line name, or a logo of some sort, so will be getting changed anyway.

Yes, I hadn't thought of that!

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, ovccruiser said:

...For example HAL catered for the US market and had large casinos compared to Fred, it will be interesting to see what they do with them. 

Yes, that had crossed my mind too. I wondered if they might move the casino into the Explorers Lounge and convert the casino into the Morning Light. The new ship also have extensive children's facilities that will be mostly unused on Fred - unless they decide to try and attract more families.

[JMyrtle]

If Fred starts encouraging families the two cruises we have booked next year will be our last, I don't "do" children! 

[Britboys]

13 minutes ago, JMyrtle said:

If Fred starts encouraging families the two cruises we have booked next year will be our last, I don't "do" children! 

I know what you mean!