Tripped up by Del Rio

[DCGuy64]

1 minute ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

From what I'm seeing, the OP willingly accepted the 125% FCC instead of the 100% cash refund. I understand that some people did not know that there was a "cash refund request" time and are stuck with FCC (I believe that NCL is wrong in those cases) but this looks like a case of....

 

OP had a choice and took the FCC.

OP then used that FCC for another cruise sailing in 2022.

OP cancelled their 2022 cruise on their own and NCL refunded the FCC that was used to book.

 

It seems to me that the OP regrets taking the FCC from the first cruise and wants to go back and change their decision. 

 

Imagine the following scenario...

I go to the store and buy a can of tuna for $1 in cash. There is a national recall for that tuna. I return the tuna to the store and the store offers either $1 cash or $1.25 in store credit. I take the store credit and use it to buy a Pepsi for #1.25. I change my mind and decide to return the Pepsi. Should the store give me $1 in cash or $1.25 in store credit?

$1.25 in store credit.

[Fido Chuckwagon]

9 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

From what I'm seeing, the OP willingly accepted the 125% FCC instead of the 100% cash refund. I understand that some people did not know that there was a "cash refund request" time and are stuck with FCC (I believe that NCL is wrong in those cases) but this looks like a case of....

 

OP had a choice and took the FCC.

OP then used that FCC for another cruise sailing in 2022.

OP cancelled their 2022 cruise on their own and NCL refunded the FCC that was used to book.

 

It seems to me that the OP regrets taking the FCC from the first cruise and wants to go back and change their decision. 

 

Imagine the following scenario...

I go to the store and buy a can of tuna for $1 in cash. There is a national recall for that tuna. I return the tuna to the store and the store offers either $1 cash or $1.25 in store credit. I take the store credit and use it to buy a Pepsi for $1.25. I change my mind and decide to return the Pepsi. Should the store give me $1 in cash or $1.25 in store credit?

He never got the $1.25 Pepsi.  Your analogy is missing the part where the store is closed indefinitely, announced it’s a going concern, and the $1.25 credit can’t actually be utilized for anything of value right now.

 

A better analogy would be, he got a $1.25 credit which he could use towards the purchase of Pepsi products.  But the store is closed and currently has no Pepsi products.  Oh and it jacked up he price of the Pepsi products it is theoretically having in the future to $1.75 for what he spent $1.00 for. But it doesn’t matter anyway becuase it’s going out of business. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Fido Chuckwagon

[Two Wheels Only]

1 minute ago, Fido Chuckwagon said:

He never got the $1.25 Pepsi.  Your analogy is missing the part where the store is closed indefinitely, announced it’s a going concern, and the $1.25 credit can’t actually be utilized for anything of value right now.

 

If the 2022 cruise sails as planned, the OP would have gotten the Pepsi. IMO, the OP should keep what they booked and see what happens. In either case, the OP had the opportunity to get back the cash and willingly took the credit.

[Two Wheels Only]

17 minutes ago, Fido Chuckwagon said:

A better analogy would be, he got a $1.25 credit which he could use towards the purchase of Pepsi products.  But the store is closed and currently has no Pepsi products.

 

The OP didn't expect to receive the new purchase immediately. The OP knew that the credit was going towards something that wouldn't happen until 2022. 

 

21 minutes ago, Fido Chuckwagon said:

 Oh and it jacked up he price of the Pepsi products it is theoretically having in the future to $1.75 for what he spent $1.00 for.

 

Even if the price increased for the future purchase, the OP was willing to pay that increased price by booking. Yes, it sucks that NCL raised prices more than the 25% increase of the FCC refund but people willingly book at those higher prices.  

 

24 minutes ago, Fido Chuckwagon said:

But it doesn’t matter anyway becuase it’s going out of business. 

 

All the more reason why people should have taken the cash when they had the chance. 

 

 

I get that some people are stuck with FCC because they didn't jump through the right hoops at the right time. THOSE people who paid cash (or credit card) should have their cash returned to them. The people who willingly took the FCC made their choice and (should) have to live with it. 

[zqvol]

46 minutes ago, Fido Chuckwagon said:

He never got the $1.25 Pepsi.  Your analogy is missing the part where the store is closed indefinitely, announced it’s a going concern, and the $1.25 credit can’t actually be utilized for anything of value right now.

 

A better analogy would be, he got a $1.25 credit which he could use towards the purchase of Pepsi products.  But the store is closed and currently has no Pepsi products.  Oh and it jacked up he price of the Pepsi products it is theoretically having in the future to $1.75 for what he spent $1.00 for. But it doesn’t matter anyway becuase it’s going out of business. 

I suggest a course in contract law

.

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by zqvol

[hallux]

1 hour ago, Fido Chuckwagon said:

announced it’s a going concern,

This is a GOOD thing.  When preceded by the words "substantial doubt of continuing as" THEN it becomes a problem.  Yes, that wording was used in an SEC filing but it was removed in the next month's filing.

 

This was discussed in another thread.

Edited July 27, 2020 by hallux

[hamrag]

2 hours ago, Fido Chuckwagon said:

He never got the $1.25 Pepsi.  Your analogy is missing the part where the store is closed indefinitely, announced it’s a going concern, and the $1.25 credit can’t actually be utilized for anything of value right now.

 

A better analogy would be, he got a $1.25 credit which he could use towards the purchase of Pepsi products.  But the store is closed and currently has no Pepsi products.  Oh and it jacked up he price of the Pepsi products it is theoretically having in the future to $1.75 for what he spent $1.00 for. But it doesn’t matter anyway becuase it’s going out of business. 

 

1 hour ago, zqvol said:

I suggest a course in contract law

 

Agree that's the only hope, based on FCs' recent posts!

[Funky Fusion FoodsJ]

Unfortunately this is exactly the type of things that tie up our courts with frivolous lawsuits and have made it harder for cruisers who have valid refund requests to get their refunds because the cruise-lines have to spend so much time putting together the documentation to send to the credit card companies that they had a valid contract with the cruiser concerning FCC and they fulfilled their contract.  In addition we're all paying for this because it's causing unnecessary burden on credit card companies to investigate the frivolous claims then passing on those additional costs to all of us as consumers.  So by all means, file a claim so we can all pay.

[luv2kroooz]

5 minutes ago, Funky Fusion FoodsJ said:

Unfortunately this is exactly the type of things that tie up our courts with frivolous lawsuits and have made it harder for cruisers who have valid refund requests to get their refunds because the cruise-lines have to spend so much time putting together the documentation to send to the credit card companies that they had a valid contract with the cruiser concerning FCC and they fulfilled their contract.  In addition we're all paying for this because it's causing unnecessary burden on credit card companies to investigate the frivolous claims then passing on those additional costs to all of us as consumers.  So by all means, file a claim so we can all pay.

Puh-lease.

 

I am not aware of any cases that have progressed to the court system, are you? In fact, there are reports that many credit card companies are successfully resolving disputes for their customers.

 

How have credit card companies passed on charges to you? Just curious? Annual fees? Higher interest rates?

 

Forget the contracts, the dotted I and the crossed T, when you do the right thing for your passengers, you can resolve these things quickly and deliberately without the need for complicated contracts. If someone paid cash for their cruise and wants a cash refund, then issue a cash refund. Not to mention, NCL and the other cruise lines are the ones that are defaulting to future cruise credits of which over one-half reportedly need to be manually converted to cash refund anyway. 

[emm126]

23 hours ago, hallux said:

 

 

Now..  You accepted the terms of the FCC from the initial cancellation, and the 25% boost for accepting that.  You then used that boosted value FCC to book a cruise which YOU then chose to cancel.  When you cancel, the refund is to the original form of payment, FCC in this case.  Check other lines, they're probably doing the same thing.  Is it right?  Possibly not, but it what the cruise contract allows them to do.

 

 

I do not know about every cruise line however RC and Carnival are giving refunds if requested by the guest,  for a cruise where they took the future cruise credit for the 1st cancelled cruise and the re-booked cruise was cancelled as well. So the refund going back to the  original form of payment in this case doesn't seem to be true. 

 

 

I am curious when NCL added that policy. It was not there in the 1st couple rounds of cancellations. And really don't blame them, i mean who could have thought this could happen but to me , If the OP booked when it wasn't a "policy" NCL should honor that. 

[BirdTravels]

15 hours ago, beachseasand said:

Thank you everyone. I figured that we had had crossed a line when we booked the second cruise, but I was hoping that it was not the case. Thanks for the great advice and information. We realize that this topic has more than likely been covered before, but this was the quickest way for us to cut to the chase. Best wishes to all, see on deck soon, I hope.  

That is absolutely NOT true. 

 

You crossed the line when you accepted the FCC and didn't request a cash refund. At that point, YOU made a decision and AGREED to the terms of the FCC.

 

That FCC could still be on your account today, untouched, and you would not be successful in getting cash back if you did not request to change the form of refund to cash during the window provided by the cruise line. 

[beerman2]

7 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

That is absolutely NOT true. 

 

You crossed the line when you accepted the FCC and didn't request a cash refund. At that point, YOU made a decision and AGREED to the terms of the FCC.

 

That FCC could still be on your account today, untouched, and you would not be successful in getting cash back if you did not request to change the form of refund to cash during the window provided by the cruise line. 

OP said they had probably crossed the line and was hoping for a better result. There was absolutely NO NEED to pile on and " capitalize " . My goodness they admitted it was their fault.

 

 

[luv2kroooz]

1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

OP said they had probably crossed the line and was hoping for a better result. There was absolutely NO NEED to pile on and " capitalize " . My goodness they admitted it was their fault.

 

 

So true. Such a black and white world for some people. I envision a radical caveman with club in hand standing behind a podium with fists clenched, screaming, shouting, and ranting....you have done this, you have done that, you agreed to the contract, you will not get money back, you are entitled to nothing... you you you. You'd think they had a vested interest in the outcome. Let the OP run it up the flagpole and see what happens.....good grief.

[ray98]

LOL.....I love how some think only a one sided opinion should be allowed.  They initially post something as fact and then when shown they are incorrect they move on to 'well let them try it anyway'.  Then they act offended anyone discussed the matter in a factual manner instead of hysteric emotions.

[ray98]

On 7/27/2020 at 12:26 PM, Fido Chuckwagon said:

Your analogy is missing the part where the store is closed indefinitely, announced it’s a going concern, 

 

 

What you are missing is what that term means, which is exactly opposite of what you think it does.

[DCGuy64]

52 minutes ago, ray98 said:

LOL.....I love how some think only a one sided opinion should be allowed.  They initially post something as fact and then when shown they are incorrect they move on to 'well let them try it anyway'.  Then they act offended anyone discussed the matter in a factual manner instead of hysteric emotions.

Right? It's also called "moving the goalposts." Ex: Someone says "no more cruises for 2020," so I point out that cruising has resumed in Norway and Germany, so the person says "I was talking about the US," (which the person failed to do at the outset, but OK), so then I say "river cruising is starting in the US and Bahamas Paradise Cruises will be sailing from Miami," and the person responds "I meant megaships." You see, if you fail to specify what you mean when you make a blanket statement like "no more cruising in 2020," you leave yourself wide open. But then again, "no more megaships cruising at the moment from Miami" doesn't exactly have the shock value the poster was going for, so there's that.

[luv2kroooz]

1 hour ago, ray98 said:

LOL.....I love how some think only a one sided opinion should be allowed.  They initially post something as fact and then when shown they are incorrect they move on to 'well let them try it anyway'.  Then they act offended anyone discussed the matter in a factual manner instead of hysteric emotions.

Hahaha. Hysterical.

[beerman2]

2 hours ago, ray98 said:

LOL.....I love how some think only a one sided opinion should be allowed.  They initially post something as fact and then when shown they are incorrect they move on to 'well let them try it anyway'.  Then they act offended anyone discussed the matter in a factual manner instead of hysteric emotions.

Or some just disappear if they are proven  to be wrong.  Admitting one is wrong isn't a bad thing.

[ray98]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Right? It's also called "moving the goalposts." Ex: Someone says "no more cruises for 2020," so I point out that cruising has resumed in Norway and Germany, so the person says "I was talking about the US," (which the person failed to do at the outset, but OK), so then I say "river cruising is starting in the US and Bahamas Paradise Cruises will be sailing from Miami," and the person responds "I meant megaships." You see, if you fail to specify what you mean when you make a blanket statement like "no more cruising in 2020," you leave yourself wide open. But then again, "no more megaships cruising at the moment from Miami" doesn't exactly have the shock value the poster was going for, so there's that.

 

Yup.....happens all the time.

[BirdTravels]

On 7/28/2020 at 6:46 AM, beerman2 said:

OP said they had probably crossed the line and was hoping for a better result. There was absolutely NO NEED to pile on and " capitalize " . My goodness they admitted it was their fault

The OP rationalized that booking a second cruise was their downfall. It was NOT. If they wanted a cash refund, they needed to request it. 

 

The whole premise of the thread is that the cruise line tripped them up. Which is NOT true.

 

Right now, we hear over and over a lot of victim noises from posters. I have had multiple cancelled cruises due to COVID (one  cancelled an hour ago). And I fully understand the outcome of making choices with regard to my compensation. I can read the cancellation notices and understand when I have to act to get the compensation I want.  I am not going to "trade in my car" for a bonus on a new model, then decide 2 months later that I want my old car back so that I can sell it for cash. Doesn't work that way. 

 

• All guests on impacted voyages will automatically receive a 125% refund of the fare paid in the form of a future cruise credit. This credit is valid for one year from the issue date and applicable towards all published sailings through December 31, 2022. All credits will be issued by Thursday, July 30, 2020.
•  A lesser value refund is also available for guests who do not wish to avail themselves of the 125% future cruise credit. Those guests can request a refund of the fare paid to be reimbursed to the original form of payment within 60 days after completing the request form at https://www.ncl.com/case-submission/peace-of-mind 
• The form will be available from August 3 through August 14, 2020 5PM EST. Policies for bookings made through tour operators or wholesalers may vary so please contact your travel professional for full details.

The instructions that are sent to each and every affected passenger are very, very clear. Everyone will automatically get the 125% FCC as result of the cancellation. If you want a refund, you must log onto the website between August 3rd and August 14th and request the refund. The refund will be processed within 2 months. 

[hallux]

I agree with some others that complained about the "lesser value refund" wording.  Why can't they just say that if you choose to get your cash back you will only get it back at 100% value instead of the 125% FCC?  THAT part is slightly misleading.

[luv2kroooz]

28 minutes ago, hallux said:

I agree with some others that complained about the "lesser value refund" wording.  Why can't they just say that if you choose to get your cash back you will only get it back at 100% value instead of the 125% FCC?  THAT part is slightly misleading.

Exactly, all we need to know from NCL is that we can get a full refund if we jump through all of their hoops or a 125% FCC. End of story.

 

The refund isn't necessarily lesser value and the FCC isn't necessarily a bonus. The passenger decision will dictate which is more valuable based on individual circumstances. We don't need NCL to try to determine that for us and NCL presumably knows better but continues to use the wording which I assume is done to mislead people and steer them away from something that NCL believes has less value. Very sad.

[beerman2]

1 hour ago, BirdTravels said:

The OP rationalized that booking a second cruise was their downfall. It was NOT. If they wanted a cash refund, they needed to request it. 

 

The whole premise of the thread is that the cruise line tripped them up. Which is NOT true.

 

Right now, we hear over and over a lot of victim noises from posters. I have had multiple cancelled cruises due to COVID (one  cancelled an hour ago). And I fully understand the outcome of making choices with regard to my compensation. I can read the cancellation notices and understand when I have to act to get the compensation I want.  I am not going to "trade in my car" for a bonus on a new model, then decide 2 months later that I want my old car back so that I can sell it for cash. Doesn't work that way. 

 

• All guests on impacted voyages will automatically receive a 125% refund of the fare paid in the form of a future cruise credit. This credit is valid for one year from the issue date and applicable towards all published sailings through December 31, 2022. All credits will be issued by Thursday, July 30, 2020.
•  A lesser value refund is also available for guests who do not wish to avail themselves of the 125% future cruise credit. Those guests can request a refund of the fare paid to be reimbursed to the original form of payment within 60 days after completing the request form at https://www.ncl.com/case-submission/peace-of-mind 
• The form will be available from August 3 through August 14, 2020 5PM EST. Policies for bookings made through tour operators or wholesalers may vary so please contact your travel professional for full details.

The instructions that are sent to each and every affected passenger are very, very clear. Everyone will automatically get the 125% FCC as result of the cancellation. If you want a refund, you must log onto the website between August 3rd and August 14th and request the refund. The refund will be processed within 2 months. 

Funny I see it that they realized they were wrong admitted it and hoped it was a different result. No rationalization involved.

I'm not going to try to prove them wrong and accept their intent. As they have accepted it.

[luv2kroooz]

1 hour ago, BirdTravels said:

The OP rationalized that booking a second cruise was their downfall. It was NOT. If they wanted a cash refund, they needed to request it. 

 

The whole premise of the thread is that the cruise line tripped them up. Which is NOT true.

 

Right now, we hear over and over a lot of victim noises from posters. I have had multiple cancelled cruises due to COVID (one  cancelled an hour ago). And I fully understand the outcome of making choices with regard to my compensation. I can read the cancellation notices and understand when I have to act to get the compensation I want.  I am not going to "trade in my car" for a bonus on a new model, then decide 2 months later that I want my old car back so that I can sell it for cash. Doesn't work that way. 

 

• All guests on impacted voyages will automatically receive a 125% refund of the fare paid in the form of a future cruise credit. This credit is valid for one year from the issue date and applicable towards all published sailings through December 31, 2022. All credits will be issued by Thursday, July 30, 2020.
•  A lesser value refund is also available for guests who do not wish to avail themselves of the 125% future cruise credit. Those guests can request a refund of the fare paid to be reimbursed to the original form of payment within 60 days after completing the request form at https://www.ncl.com/case-submission/peace-of-mind 
• The form will be available from August 3 through August 14, 2020 5PM EST. Policies for bookings made through tour operators or wholesalers may vary so please contact your travel professional for full details.

The instructions that are sent to each and every affected passenger are very, very clear. Everyone will automatically get the 125% FCC as result of the cancellation. If you want a refund, you must log onto the website between August 3rd and August 14th and request the refund. The refund will be processed within 2 months. 

Loosen up, Bird. Life is too short.

[luv2kroooz]

35 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

The OP rationalized that booking a second cruise was their downfall. It was NOT. If they wanted a cash refund, they needed to request it. 

 

The whole premise of the thread is that the cruise line tripped them up.

This is also one of topics the Federal Maritime Commission will be discussing to prevent these issues. Cash refunds allowable at least six months from date of sailing, not a ten day window arbitrarily established by the cruise line.