P.O. Cruise update

[Dermotsgirl]

8 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

It is so short-sighted for P&O to be so unreasonable when it comes to balance due dates. 

 

Do they really, honestly, expect most people to pay up given what has happened with Hurtigurten and still with pretty much no information about what their plans are/were/could be, 90 days out?  Or are they hoping to collect a few unredeemed deposits?

 

I just hope that most customers have remembered to turn their auto pay off, or failing that ask for full refunds this time round.  The FCC merry go round has to stop.

 

Let's assume that certain people are right who are saying that prices will eventually rise so that the losses in the pandemic will be recouped.  As a general rule of thumb, people expect better when it comes to paying more, including service.  

 

How does this intransigence from P&O help, they have had months to determine a more reasonable policy?

 

And breathe...

 

I've got got cruises booked for March 2021, October 2021, and January 2022

 

I will have to make a decision about the Iona cruise for March in November to December this year. As I booked through an agent, I'm due to pay the balance to them on Nov 6, which is ridiculously early. I do intend to ask them if I can delay paying them until the start of December, which is the date that P&O will want their money.

 

As far as I can see my options are quite limited.

 

I think we are still going to be in exactly the same situation next year, so I have no desire to shift the deposit to a cruise a few months later. In any event, unless they release cruises for Summer 2022 into 2023, there'll be no cruises for me to move to as I'm booked up for late 2021 and the start of 2022. 

 

Unless P&O actually cancel my cruise before my payment date, the other option would be to pay the balance (for a cruise I don't really want to do any more) and hope the cruise is cancelled so that I eventually get a refund.  But I don't fancy that idea either, due to the poor performance with refunds, and I don't want to pay a large sum of money to a company that will become increasingly wobbly on the finance front.

 

I suspect my only option will be just to cancel, and lose the deposit.  It would help greatly if P&O reduced the balance due date to 28 days, so that passengers might have a better chance assessing the current situation, but they do seem to be intransigent on this point.

 

I should add that my deposit was only  £146, so, although I'd prefer to have the money back, it's not too big a sum to lose.

 

My next decision point will be in May, when my October 2021 cruise balance becomes due. This is a much more expensive cruise with Cunard. Who knows where we'll be by then. If cruises haven't started up by then,, the cruise lines will be in a very bad way.

 

[bee-ess]

34 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

 

I suspect my only option will be just to cancel, and lose the deposit.  It would help greatly if P&O reduced the balance due date to 28 days, so that passengers might have a better chance assessing the current situation, but they do seem to be intransigent on this point.

 

 

MY view exactly - 28days would be reasonable in the current climate. We are being asked to pay balances on cruises with no idea if it will run or not or what the rules will be, and then wait months for a refund if we do pay up and it is cancelled.

[Adawn47]

1 hour ago, pete14 said:

‘absolutely not to pay balances’ sounds to me like a good way to lose your deposit. P&O is not offering ‘vouchers’. They are offering to transfer money paid for cruises they have cancelled to a new cruise and this is covered by ABTA guarantee which a voucher wouldn’t be.

My November cruise isn't yet cancelled, but they've allowed me to transfer the deposit to a cruise in June next year with no transfer fee. Can only do it once though!!

Avril 

[AnnieC]

37 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

 

It would help greatly if P&O reduced the balance due date to 28 days, so that passengers might have a better chance assessing the current situation, but they do seem to be intransigent on this point.

 

 

 

Absolutely - completely unreasonable to expect customers to pay for a cruise months in advance in the current situation; for the first time in many years I have no cruises booked (not luck, BTW, but due to unwelcome circumstances), but would not be happy to pay so far in advance for something that probably isn't even going to happen and, if it does, with no idea what format the whole thing would take. 

 

 

 

 

[emam]

On 8/2/2020 at 12:18 PM, majortom10 said:

Both prices are per person for an inside cabin £1400 paid for highest grade and £2400 is for lowest grade inside cabin. Balcony prices of course would be higher.

 

 

That is a lot. The price I said was for two people.

[jeanlyon]

Out of interest, I have taken an FCC for our October 18th cruise.  I still can't see the FCC.  So if they now cancel the 18th October cruise, can I then have a refund instead of the Fcc?

[majortom10]

59 minutes ago, emam said:

 

That is a lot. The price I said was for two people.

It is for 19nts in August and when we booked at £1400 was a bargain but I agree at £2400pp it is now very expensive.

[No pager thank you]

19 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Out of interest, I have taken an FCC for our October 18th cruise.  I still can't see the FCC.  So if they now cancel the 18th October cruise, can I then have a refund instead of the Fcc?

No, I think that is covered in the FAQs somewhere Jean, sorry.

 

I suppose that P&O would argue that if you did want to redeem your FCC now then you could do so over the phone...if you get lucky with the correct number and have a couple of hours to spare😤

[Adawn47]

4 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

It is for 19nts in August and when we booked at £1400 was a bargain but I agree at £2400pp it is now very expensive.

We booked our 19 nights October 2021 cruise last year. Outside cabin. When booked it was £1351pp. It's now showing at £2199 pp.

Avril 

[No pager thank you]

7 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

It is for 19nts in August and when we booked at £1400 was a bargain but I agree at £2400pp it is now very expensive.

I agree, that is overpriced.

 

As an aside, it will be very interesting, once the new brochure is released to compare "like with like" prices from 2020 to 2022 to see if this type of price inflation is built in.

 

I could see P&O having difficulty filling the ship, with that being one of the cheapest fares.

[No pager thank you]

4 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

We booked our 19 nights October 2021 cruise last year. Outside cabin. When booked it was £1351pp. It's now showing at £2199 pp.

Avril 

Ouch that's a lot!  Let's work that out.

 

So that's £1351 X 125% = £1689 - that's the Future Cruise Credit back banked.

 

The extra £500 is because smaller ships are now more of a "niche" product, with Oceana leaving the fleet.  Pay more, get less!

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by No pager thank you
Maths!

[kruzseeka]

7 hours ago, Mrk2868 said:

We are booked on Britania, for 14 day caribbean cruise in November 2020.  Our Plan is to pay the final balence when due in a few days time.  Anyones guess if the cruise will happen, but we are hoping it will.  We booked direct with P&O.  Does anyone know if they will send an email reminder or what happens if we have not paid by Sunday 9th, when payment is due?

 

We were due to pay the balance for a cruise we had decided not to take for health reasons.  I naively imagined that if we didn't pay the balance, we would just forfeit the deposit (a low one so not too worried).   By chance we went into our TA that day an discovered to our horror that should we not pay the balance by the due date, we became liable for the next level of cancellation charges which was 50%.

I'm not sure about the current situation, but the one thing I would advise, whatever you decide to do, is to make a decision before the deadline and inform them if you intend to cancel - don't let it go by default as you will incur more charges.  

[No pager thank you]

5 minutes ago, kruzseeka said:

 

We were due to pay the balance for a cruise we had decided not to take for health reasons.  I naively imagined that if we didn't pay the balance, we would just forfeit the deposit (a low one so not too worried).   By chance we went into our TA that day an discovered to our horror that should we not pay the balance by the due date, we became liable for the next level of cancellation charges which was 50%.

I'm not sure about the current situation, but the one thing I would advise, whatever you decide to do, is to make a decision before the deadline and inform them if you intend to cancel - don't let it go by default as you will incur more charges.  

Yes, thank you for sharing this warning. 

 

It is one of the ways which people can become liable for a lot of extra money - note that P&O specifically refers to this as the "date which P&O receives notice of cancellation."

 

You can't just leave it unfortunately. You have to know when the balance is due and either pay up or cancel or transfer by, at latest, the end of that business day.  And, if doing by phone, you have to be able to get through.

[jake 26]

26 minutes ago, kruzseeka said:

 

We were due to pay the balance for a cruise we had decided not to take for health reasons.  I naively imagined that if we didn't pay the balance, we would just forfeit the deposit (a low one so not too worried).   By chance we went into our TA that day an discovered to our horror that should we not pay the balance by the due date, we became liable for the next level of cancellation charges which was 50%.

I'm not sure about the current situation, but the one thing I would advise, whatever you decide to do, is to make a decision before the deadline and inform them if you intend to cancel - don't let it go by default as you will incur more charges.  

 

I think you were told wrongly.

P&O booking terms and conditions - the Contract para 4:

 

No contract shall be made until the deposit (or, where appropriate, the full price) has been paid........Failure to pay the balance by the due date shall entitle P&O Cruises to cancel the booking and retain the deposit by way of a cancellation charge.

 

No way can they chase you for further charges unless you've paid the balance then cancel later, in which case you forfeit the amount stated on their sliding scale.

[jeanlyon]

Exactly what I was going to say.  A deposit is just that - forfeitable if you don't pay the balance.  Nothing further to pay.

[Adawn47]

1 hour ago, No pager thank you said:

So that's £1351 X 125% = £1689 - that's the Future Cruise Credit back banked.

 

I've read this a few times and I'm not sure what you meaning. I didn't have any FCC. I cancelled it, not P&O.

Avril 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Adawn47

[No pager thank you]

17 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

I've read this a few times and I'm not sure what you meaning. I didn't have any FCC. I cancelled it, not P&O.

Avril 

Sorry Avril, I should have been clearer.

 

-- Each passenger who P&O cancels gets a 25% bonus.

-- My point was to indicate that this 25% will need to be recouped.

-- One of the ways it can be recouped is by increasing the prices of cruises next year by a lot more than 25%.

 

The cruise is now £2199 each, about 62% dearer than what you initially booked for. 

 

In short, if someone does book for £2199 they are subsidising the cost of a passenger refunded by P&O with a FCC (but not you).  

 

Hope that helps 😃

[No pager thank you]

59 minutes ago, jake 26 said:

 

I think you were told wrongly.

P&O booking terms and conditions - the Contract para 4:

 

No contract shall be made until the deposit (or, where appropriate, the full price) has been paid........Failure to pay the balance by the due date shall entitle P&O Cruises to cancel the booking and retain the deposit by way of a cancellation charge.

 

No way can they chase you for further charges unless you've paid the balance then cancel later, in which case you forfeit the amount stated on their sliding scale.

To be honest, I have heard tales of other  holiday companies try to do this pre pandemic, although in fairness not P&O, and you are right to point out this clause:

 

Scenario:

 

-- Customer should pay the full balance by date "X"

-- Customer does not pay.

-- Holiday company is entitled to cancel the booking (but crucially it does not have to, if it does not count a late full payment as automatically cancelling the contract on the first date due).  This can be called a grace period etc etc.

-- Customer then tries to cancel after date "X," possibly after holiday company has charged the card automatically, plus allotted any administration or late fee.

-- Holiday company then tries to say that the contract was still in force (at its discretion) due to the prior agreement above.

-- Therefore, a subsequent notice of cancellation then attracts a higher cancellation charge as it becomes within and not outside of the initial balance due date.

 

The customer either just has to ignore the issue completely and never pay anything, plus ignore any reminders, and also must ensure that they never give automatic payment details for the balance etc.

 

The absolute is as I say do not give the company ability to direct charge your card (and I would suggest that it is better to notify them).  If you do and you are not on the ball then you could be liable for more money.

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, Adawn47 said:

My November cruise isn't yet cancelled, but they've allowed me to transfer the deposit to a cruise in June next year with no transfer fee. Can only do it once though!!

Avril 

I think that is incorrect. The front page of their website clearly states you can change your booking as many times as you like, free of charge. 

What is unclear, is whether you will be able to do so when/if the new 2022/23 schedules are launched.  

[kruzseeka]

1 hour ago, jake 26 said:

 

I think you were told wrongly.

P&O booking terms and conditions - the Contract para 4:

 

No contract shall be made until the deposit (or, where appropriate, the full price) has been paid........Failure to pay the balance by the due date shall entitle P&O Cruises to cancel the booking and retain the deposit by way of a cancellation charge.

 

No way can they chase you for further charges unless you've paid the balance then cancel later, in which case you forfeit the amount stated on their sliding scale.

 

I wish I'd known that at the time.  There was a prolonged discussion with someone at P&O and our agent at the time and we were left in no doubt that we would be liable for the 50% if we didn't pay the balance or formally cancel (with loss of deposit already paid which I expected).  But I couldn't fathom why unlike any other transaction where, if a deposits is paid, then that is all that is lost on failure to pay the balance.  I just wasn't going to bother, just let it go by default but couldn't believe what I was being told - clearly rom what you say,  my gut reaction was sound - which begs the question that I was seriously misled!   

 

Have just checked the Contract para 4 and read this.  Do you think this us what they were trying to apply?  After 5he 90 day deadline, they would apply the 50% cancellation fee.  If so I reckon that's sharp practice but may relate what i was being told.

 

4.5 If the invoiced cost of the package is not received promptly, and if payment is not made after a reminder with a deadline, ICO shall be entitled to cancel the contract. In this case, ICO shall charge the cancellation costs set out in number 8.1.

 

 

[Adawn47]

40 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I think that is incorrect. The front page of their website clearly states you can change your booking as many times as you like, free of charge. 

What is unclear, is whether you will be able to do so when/if the new 2022/23 schedules are launched.  

That's nice to know. I really I hope I won't need it though😊

Avril 

[jake 26]

10 hours ago, kruzseeka said:

 

I wish I'd known that at the time.  There was a prolonged discussion with someone at P&O and our agent at the time and we were left in no doubt that we would be liable for the 50% if we didn't pay the balance or formally cancel (with loss of deposit already paid which I expected).  But I couldn't fathom why unlike any other transaction where, if a deposits is paid, then that is all that is lost on failure to pay the balance.  I just wasn't going to bother, just let it go by default but couldn't believe what I was being told - clearly rom what you say,  my gut reaction was sound - which begs the question that I was seriously misled!   

 

Have just checked the Contract para 4 and read this.  Do you think this us what they were trying to apply?  After 5he 90 day deadline, they would apply the 50% cancellation fee.  If so I reckon that's sharp practice but may relate what i was being told.

 

4.5 If the invoiced cost of the package is not received promptly, and if payment is not made after a reminder with a deadline, ICO shall be entitled to cancel the contract. In this case, ICO shall charge the cancellation costs set out in number 8.1.

 

 

 

Sorry Kruzseeka I can't find para 4.5 in P&O's booking t&cs. Is that in the travel agent's t&cs?

[Denarius]

15 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

Out of interest, I have taken an FCC for our October 18th cruise.  I still can't see the FCC.  So if they now cancel the 18th October cruise, can I then have a refund instead of the Fcc?

I read your post with interest. I cancelled an April 2020 cruise on Ventura after balance due date and was promised 25% refund (promptly received) and 75% FCC which my travel agent was told would be credited within 72 hours. My May 2021 cruise on Oceana was then cancelled and I was given by default a FCC for my deposit. Last week I saw my travel agent to book a Jan 2022 cruise. He accessed my P&O account and found no cruise credit in respect of either cancellation, an issue which he is now pursuing with them. Has this happened to anyone else?

Edited August 4, 2020 by Denarius

[kruzseeka]

4 hours ago, jake 26 said:

 

Sorry Kruzseeka I can't find para 4.5 in P&O's booking t&cs. Is that in the travel agent's t&cs?

 

Hi Jake - now you've set me a challenge ....... i can't find that one quoting para 4.5   🤔

However I have unearthed this if it opens ok!   In Para 4 of this document it refers to claus 38 which looks at cancellation charges.  I wonder if the critical thing is the required  'written confirmation of cancellation' as highlighted at the top of the table of charges.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://js.pocruises.com/Global/Legal/POC%20Booking%20Conditions.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiM_YnSxoHrAhWOT8AKHclaDh4QFjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3VgQr3H8aCLxLeo0lk5Ykl

 

I should say that when we discovered the problem we were one day over the due date and our agent rang P&O to confirm her understanding that they were able to charge us 50%.  That was confirmed by the P&O agent.   In negotiation with P&O our agent said they would allow us to transfer the deposit to another booking with the standard £100 admin charge if we made the booking by the next day.  As you might imagine we did and felt we'd got off lightly.  We had been prepared to just let the (low) deposit go as we had things going on at the time and it just seemed the easy way out. This was before Covid. 

 

But it didn't sit well with me...... like you said if you've paid a deposit and fail to pay the balance surely the Company have their compensation - your deposit and the cabin available to resell.

 

I'm not sure if what we were told holds water, but just in case there is the possibility, I wouldn't like anyone else to get caught out.  We'll certainly be sure not to get into that situation again.  It would be interesting to know if anyone has actually fallen foul of this Claus if indeed it is enforcible - or was I shot a line?

 

 

[jake 26]

20 minutes ago, kruzseeka said:

 

Hi Jake - now you've set me a challenge ....... i can't find that one quoting para 4.5   🤔

However I have unearthed this if it opens ok!   In Para 4 of this document it refers to claus 38 which looks at cancellation charges.  I wonder if the critical thing is the required  'written confirmation of cancellation' as highlighted at the top of the table of charges.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://js.pocruises.com/Global/Legal/POC%20Booking%20Conditions.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiM_YnSxoHrAhWOT8AKHclaDh4QFjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3VgQr3H8aCLxLeo0lk5Ykl

 

I should say that when we discovered the problem we were one day over the due date and our agent rang P&O to confirm her understanding that they were able to charge us 50%.  That was confirmed by the P&O agent.   In negotiation with P&O our agent said they would allow us to transfer the deposit to another booking with the standard £100 admin charge if we made the booking by the next day.  As you might imagine we did and felt we'd got off lightly.  We had been prepared to just let the (low) deposit go as we had things going on at the time and it just seemed the easy way out. This was before Covid. 

 

But it didn't sit well with me...... like you said if you've paid a deposit and fail to pay the balance surely the Company have their compensation - your deposit and the cabin available to resell.

 

I'm not sure if what we were told holds water, but just in case there is the possibility, I wouldn't like anyone else to get caught out.  We'll certainly be sure not to get into that situation again.  It would be interesting to know if anyone has actually fallen foul of this Claus if indeed it is enforcible - or was I shot a line?

 

 

 

I see what you are saying but the way I read it is that Clause 38 is to clarify the scale of charges you are liable to pay if you notify them of cancellation after you have paid the balance. If you have not paid the balance but defaulted on the payment date P&O are entitled to retain the deposit as clearly stated in para 4.

When you saw the TA you were in default so you lost your deposit as you expected, but nothing more.

I feel the TA knew that, but if you went ahead with the failure to pay cancellation as per para 4 they would lose their commission. So they acted as if you were giving written confirmation of cancellation after the 90 day period, and P&O would respond, when asked, as per para 38 - 50%, which they did.

So you were coerced, in my view, to paying £100 to change to another booking so the TA could retain their commission.

if you had not spoken to the TA para 4 would have been automatically applied and you would have cancelled by default.

There is no getting away from the fact that para 4 clearly states the legal position if you default on the payment due date i.e. loss of deposit.