Air Canada - Fighting For Refund

[WNcruiser]

11 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

The OP here.

 

I have sent another detailed email to the Bank of Montreal Dispute group where my claim is, asking why the delay in posting my refund.  I have also filed with the US DOT.

Working on a communication to the head of US DOT, asking them to take action against Air Canada and ban them from the US.

 

Since most people use air to get to a cruise, keeping the airlines in order is necessary - otherwise we will be hijacked by arrogant air lines like Air Canada.

 

For my next cruise, it will be US airlines only.

Glad you filed your complaint with the DOT. Just beware they are extremely overwhelmed and it may take a month or longer to respond to you. Air Canada then has 30 days to respond initially. 

 

Love the idea of asking them to take action against AC. I know many people that have been refused refunds blatantly violating the DOT enforcement action. 

[K.T.B.]

Man I got really lucky with my cancelled cruise.

 

I was notified by Celebrity on June 23rd that it was being cancelled.  So I started making phone calls about my airfare which I booked through Celebrity, and the excursion I had booked.  I found out during the phone call that United had already cancelled the flight on June 21st and I was issued an immediate refund!  I'm still waiting for my FCC however.... but that's a different story for another time.

Edited August 16, 2020 by K.T.B.

[ABoatNerd]

20 hours ago, bebe08 said:

To the OP if your bank isn't able to help try escalating the the ombudsman at the bank.  I did this recently for another credit card issue (unrelated to travel) and my concern was quickly addressed.    Here is some info https://cba.ca/resolving-problems-with-your-bank

 

bebe08, many thanks for this post. I have got the entire complaint structure at the Bank of Montreal, so will go there if required.

Everyone has been great.

 

It appears that Air Canada is giving the finger to the US government and their customers, guess this is what you can do when you are in Quebec and have the federal government of Canada supporting you. Disgusting. West Jet and Air Transat have changed their policies since June and are now providing refunds for flights into the US, in accordance with American law.

[ABoatNerd]

11 hours ago, WNcruiser said:

Glad you filed your complaint with the DOT. Just beware they are extremely overwhelmed and it may take a month or longer to respond to you. Air Canada then has 30 days to respond initially. 

 

Love the idea of asking them to take action against AC. I know many people that have been refused refunds blatantly violating the DOT enforcement action. 

 

WNcruiser, I respect the laws of the country I visit, I expect Air Canada to do so as well. Their history of being in bed with one of the parties at the federal level in Canada has created an untouchable arrogance that has no bounds. 

 

I am going beyond the DOT complaint - to the head of the DOT and to elected US representatives. Have already done so in Canada.

 

Since we cruisers usually fly to our cruises, it is very important that as consumers, we fight both air and cruise abuses of us.

 

[npcl]

8 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

 

WNcruiser, I respect the laws of the country I visit, I expect Air Canada to do so as well. Their history of being in bed with one of the parties at the federal level in Canada has created an untouchable arrogance that has no bounds. 

 

I am going beyond the DOT complaint - to the head of the DOT and to elected US representatives. Have already done so in Canada.

 

Since we cruisers usually fly to our cruises, it is very important that as consumers, we fight both air and cruise abuses of us.

 

I expect that Air Canada is being as arrogant as they are is because of the borders being closed between the US and Canada.  Not much the DOT can do as long as they are not flying to the US.

[Gmell]

For our flights canceled in March, I chose to take the small refund instead of future voucher... refund was around $160 on a $2000 flight. Submitted the balance to my trip cancelation coverage. They paid within 60 days.


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[Fouremco]

4 hours ago, npcl said:

I expect that Air Canada is being as arrogant as they are is because of the borders being closed between the US and Canada.  Not much the DOT can do as long as they are not flying to the US.

Air Canada continues to fly to/from the US, albeit with a reduced schedule.

 

[npcl]

8 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Air Canada continues to fly to/from the US, albeit with a reduced schedule.

 

In that case DOT does retain some leverage and could make it no schedule if AC continues in their current stand.

[Fouremco]

22 minutes ago, npcl said:

In that case DOT does retain some leverage and could make it no schedule if AC continues in their current stand.

Yes, DOT will have some degree of leverage, but Air Canada is only one of many foreign and domestic airlines with US flight privileges that cumulatively owe billions of dollars in refunds. I suspect that it will be a long, drawn out battle.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Fouremco

[npcl]

7 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Yes, DOT will have some degree of leverage, but Air Canada is only one of many foreign and domestic airlines with US flight privileges that cumulatively owe billions of dollars in refunds. I suspect that it will be a long, drawn out battle.

However, Air Canada has distinguished themselves by making it to the top of the list above all other foreign airlines with the most complaints.  The amount of refund complaints against Air Canada was higher than all of the US airlines except United and American. Considering the relative number of flights that fall under US DOT rules they certainly will attract attention.

[Fouremco]

24 minutes ago, npcl said:

However, Air Canada has distinguished themselves by making it to the top of the list above all other foreign airlines with the most complaints.  The amount of refund complaints against Air Canada was higher than all of the US airlines except United and American. Considering the relative number of flights that fall under US DOT rules they certainly will attract attention.

Yes, they certainly have attracted attention, on both sides of the border. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[terrydtx]

We had non cancellable Business class tickets with AA for our  September Viking Ocean Cruise that we purchased on our own. The cruise was cancelled and we got a 100% cash refund in 3 weeks American after we cancelled. The original flights we booked last November had been changed 3 times by AA which helped with our case for a cash refund instead of a future credit. We are looking at air for our Celebrity cruises for next year on Celebrity Air but would never consider any segments with Air Canada  after doing research on them. They have a horrible online reputation for both their Premium Economy and Business Class service and their issues with cash refunds is even a bigger issue online. OP good luck with your dealings with this terrible airline.

[ABoatNerd]

terrydtx, appreciate you noting your research about Air Canada, you are a smart consumer!

Please pass on your knowledge of AC to everyone you know.

 

We long go out of our way to avoid business with AC but in this one instance, timing was tight, and there was a direct flight from Ottawa to NYC that worked cause we were with our friends in Ottawa.

 

Suffice it to say that we will not patronize AC again, if we need to get to NYC, we are taking the train instead.

 

Working with some others to start a boycott protest against AC.

 

Every consumer needs to boycott companies that are anti consumer.

 

[Fouremco]

Air Canada is making few friends these days. Global News reported yesterday that in spite of the GOC travel advisories against any non-essential foreign travel, Air Canada is promoting leisure travel to the US, much to the consternation of Canadian health experts.

 

“We’re in the time of a pandemic and that sort of undermines all the public health measures in place,” said Dr. Anna Banerji, an infectious disease and global health specialist at the University of Toronto.

“So to have Canadians go down there for leisure purposes in the middle of a pandemic, it seems to be very unethical and I think that Air Canada really needs to look at what they’re doing.”

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/7273310/air-canada-us-travel-coronavirus/

[WNcruiser]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-canada-refunds-1.5697727?cmp=rss

 

We are not the only ones complaining about Air Canada. I think its a very big issue and hope that the DOT takes action against them. 

 

If you dont want to click the link: "Air Canada racks up 2nd most refund complaints in US in May"

Edited August 24, 2020 by WNcruiser

[nwcruiselover]

I had an Air Canada flight booked from Brisbane to Vancouver in November to return from a cruise.  Cruise was cancelled in June.  I requested the future flight credit from AC on June 9th and received it on August 21st for the full amount with no expiration date.  FYI, the emails with the voucher number and PIN number arrived in my spam/junk folder, so those of you who are waiting, check your junk folder.  

[WNcruiser]

I think for most of us the issue is that Air Canada cancelled the flight and is refusing to refund the ticket. They are only offering a future credit which is in direct violation of the DOT order. 

 

If the passenger cancelled then its a different story. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by WNcruiser

[ABoatNerd]

I am the OP and yes Air Canada is not making good press here in Canada or elsewhere.

 

The issue is that passengers are legally entitled to refunds - this is a legal requirement in both Canada and the US where AC operates.

 

My issue is with AC for sure, but also poor performance of Master Card in the dispute resolution process.

Since many of us have gone this route for cruises and air, I will update you on dealing with less than helpful card people.

 

AC used the words "could not operate" in their notification to us, not cancelled. In fact the daily flight has not operated since May 16, right on the AC site, taken a hard copy and screen shot. Hummm, that sure appears like many cancellations.

 

Despite this, the Master Card individual in the dispute resolution would not process my claim cause the AC paperwork did not say cancellation - Do you like that?  Semantics.

 

I then emailed AC asking them point blank - did you cancel my flight XX on August 20, 2020? AC got back to me quickly (to give them credit) but they refused to answer my question - so that is evidence that they are deliberately using the weasel words "could not operate", not cancellation, as a method of avoiding refunds. I sure liked getting that email from AC.

 

I have filed with the US DOT and the Canadian federal equivalent (who are actually part of the problem providing an excuse to the Canadian airlines, sigh). So now in the process at the federal government level in two countries.

 

So I escalated it out of the MasterCard up into the Bank of Montreal - where I had a good discussion with a executive customer service person in the SVP office, all part of the step by step customer service process on the Bank of Montreal site. Will be sending her the latest info from AC.

 

So, will see where this goes, but never give up and never give in.

 

 

 

 

[Turtles06]

6 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

So, will see where this goes, but never give up and never give in.

 

I hate what AC is doing to you and others -- playing word games and pretending they didn't cancel, not abiding by the DOT rules, etc.  And you are right to be upset with Master Card.    Do keep at it, I wish you the best of luck.

 

And fyi, according to this post about Air Canada from a couple of months ago by The Points Guy, you've done everything you should be doing to purse your claim:

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/air-canada-rebooking-options-canceled-flight/

 

Good luck!!

[Fouremco]

Another interesting article on AC that includes this imaginative defence:

 

Air Canada has fought formal complaints to the Department of Transportation, arguing that the enforcement notice along with “the Department’s COVID-19 Refund FAQs are guidance documents only ... and do not have the effect of law.”

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/air-canada-refund-complaints_ca_5f451ef3c5b6c00d03b454db??ncid=newsltcahpmgnews

[ABoatNerd]

Thank you Turtles06 and Fouremco!

 

This is not over yet. There are many cruise folks who are still waiting for their legal refunds.

 

There is no organization I understand that is as obviously hateful of consumers as Air Canada.

 

The game is not over till it is over, as a great one said (Fouremco - I know this is not a hockey saying, sigh).

 

I urge every cruise and airline person who is waiting for their legal refund to keep at it.

 

Never Give up and Never, Ever, Give In.

 

The US DOT I think has guts and I URGE THEM, to swoop down and castrate Air Canada. Do it!

Show your authority and get on with it.

 

Fight on your dear consumers, do not accept being 2nd class.

 

As for Air Canada, it speaks volumes about the disgusting anti consumer attitude in Canada. 

 

[terrydtx]

AC has probably the worst rating online of any airline. Customer service & flight comfort are at the bottom of all airlines, ratings for their Premium Economy service  is a joke too.  I will never book any flights with them and we use United often which is in the same partner network with AC. When booking United you need to check carefully when going to Europe because they will try to take you to Toronto or Montreal to fly AC for the overseas segment.

Edited August 26, 2020 by terrydtx

[ABoatNerd]

terrydtx!

Thanks, and love the Great State of Texas, we drove from Toronto to Brownsville and back across New Orleans, Mobile, up to Nashville and Toronto - 5 weeks and we saw and loved so much of dearest America.  Your state capital building is higher than Washington! The Alamo was humbling.

 

This is all about consumers protecting themselves.

 

The Bank of Montreal has just now indicated to me that many credit card companies are Organizing against Air Canada. Apparently there is a growing backlash against this disgusting company as the credit card companies are tired of spending their $ to address Air Canada arrogance.

 

We have flown United as well, but no way will we patronize Air Canada or (Air Arrogance) as I now call them. They are controlled by Quebec, the Canadian federal liberal party "laurentian elite" and they used to get taxpayer funding, way to cozy with government. 

 

Time has moved on in a global world and Air Arrogance has not. Hoping for more air travel competition in Canada - it is a duopoly - Air Arrogance and West Jet. Air Arrogance is trying to buy West Jet to get a monopoly. Very bad.

 

Thanks for the support for this hardworking person.  Oh yes, we pay 13% consumption tax on the Air Arrogance ticket!

 

 

[terrydtx]

19 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

Thanks, and love the Great State of Texas, we drove from Toronto to Brownsville and back across New Orleans, Mobile, up to Nashville and Toronto - 5 weeks and we saw and loved so much of dearest America.  Your state capital building is higher than Washington! The Alamo was humbling.

I am so happy you enjoyed your trip across my great state of Texas. I still get the chills visiting the Alamo because some of my boyhood heroes lost their lives defending it. 

 

While we have been locked down we got hooked on a CBC TV series "The Republic of Doyle" that was filmed and takes place in St Johns Newfoundland. Because of this show we are now planning a driving trip in the summer of 2022, we will fly to Toronto and then drive through Nova Scotia and then take the ferry to St John's Newfoundland. We also watched and love Schitt's Creek and want to drive to the town where this was filmed just East of Toronto. BTW we will NOT be flying AC to Toronto. Good luck in dealing with them.

Edited August 26, 2020 by terrydtx

[Texed]

1 hour ago, ABoatNerd said:

Thanks, and love the Great State of Texas, we drove from Toronto to Brownsville and back across New Orleans, Mobile, up to Nashville and Toronto - 5 weeks and we saw and loved so much of dearest America.  Your state capital building is higher than Washington! The Alamo was humbling.

 

Some very nice comments.  You did a bunch of driving.  Heck, it is a long drive from Houston to Brownsville.  😁

 

BTW, we have been to Canada a few times.  We have loved the scenery.  But, we haven't done the driving.  😎