Air Canada - Fighting For Refund

[hvbaskey]

On 8/12/2020 at 11:29 AM, Fouremco said:

In March, we cancelled our April cruise to Hawaii as well as our AC flights to Vancouver and return from Honolulu. We received a full refund within days from AC. Sometimes it's worthwhile paying a bit more for the refundable fare. That said, I'm not sure that AC would withstand a court challenge, and I've been waiting to see if there might be a class action lawsuit initiated on behalf of the thousands of consumers like you owed billions of dollars. In the mean time, the credit card dispute mechanism seems to be your best bet, and I wish you the best of luck. Do get back to us with the outcome.

 

Agreed - it is definitely worth the few extra shekels for the refundable fare.   I book AC flights for 2021 and paid the extra for 100% refund and flexibility to change (no change fees).  With that fare we received 1 checked bag each (no charge) as well as advanced seat selection in preferred rows (e.g., bulk heads / exit rows).

 

Celebrity Choice Air offered non-refundable fares only after Final Payment was made, it was a big NO thanks to that.  Too many coupons and vouchers from 2020 ... For 2021, I have read every fine detail / fine print ensuring that everything is cash-back, if we need to cancel OR are cancelled.

[GateGuardian]

7 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

Thanks to everyone who has posted. This is the power of the internet to enable and help consumers.

 

I am also going to share everyone's excellent information with Canadian groups fighting the airlines.

 

I am off on stage 2 of the battle - filing with US-DOT first, then the Bank of Montreal who are dragging their feet.

 

I will pour a glass or 2 of a nice chardonnay along the way AND will hoist it to all of you.

 

Kindest Regards

 

Not sure why you would file with US-DOT as this flight departs from Canada. The rules usually applies from where you depart from. Maybe look up the CTA instead. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by GateGuardian

[-Lew-]

29 minutes ago, GateGuardian said:

 

Not sure why you would file with US-DOT as this flight departs from Canada. The rules usually applies from where you depart from. Maybe look up the CTA instead. 

 

If you're not sure, I suggest you read the posts above yours...

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, GateGuardian said:

 

Not sure why you would file with US-DOT as this flight departs from Canada. The rules usually applies from where you depart from. Maybe look up the CTA instead. 

The rules apply to any airline operating in the US; direction of travel is irrelevant. The Wall Street Journal's report yesterday to which I referred in an earlier post includes the following paragraph:

 

The U.S. Transportation Department warned that any airline operating in the U.S., foreign or domestic, had to refund tickets for flights the airline canceled and couldn’t offer an alternative without a “substantial” schedule change. But many international carriers have offered only vouchers. Some forced consumers into accepting vouchers before the airline officially removed flights from its schedule. Some have delayed paying refunds while waiting for government bailouts or new investment.

[ABoatNerd]

Thanks Fouremco.

I have made my US-DOT complaint against Air Canada.

I am now onto the Ontario Consumer Protection Complaint program against both Air Canada and my credit card.

They told me that consumers can make complaints against cruise lines as well - any company that is selling their product in the Province of Ontario.

So delayed refunds from cruise lines can be addressed in Ontario.

 

[WNcruiser]

15 hours ago, GateGuardian said:

 

Not sure why you would file with US-DOT as this flight departs from Canada. The rules usually applies from where you depart from. Maybe look up the CTA instead. 

Absolutely 100% incorrect. The rules apply to any flights that depart or arrive from a US city. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by WNcruiser

[tert333]

On 8/12/2020 at 10:52 PM, vivian02 said:

Had a August cruise canceled so we had to deal with the AC flights out of Phoenix Arizona to Vancouver. We had non-refundable airfare so I waited until August to deal with the situation. I wanted to see AC say they would give credit to the end of August. This was not fault of ours and no fault of AC. Two days ago I went on line and canceled the flight and got a notification that I would receive a voucher. The money involved was not that much but at least AC gave us a chance to use a credit for next summer. By the way for those just wanting to know AC had changed our travel times twice. One the last time they backed up the flight by 24 hours. This was reason enough to ask for a refund but trying to get hold of a real customer service agent in this environment would be a waste of my time. I hope this information helps those in the same situation as ours. It could have been a worse case situation.  

I cancelled an AC flight early in June and was told that I would get my voucher in 4 weeks.   I am still waiting on it 10 weeks later.   There has been no further correspondence from them.  I have called them and they said it is going a "bit" slower.   This is not even costing them a cent to issue the credit and they are still not doing what they are committing to do.   

[doodlefan]

This isn't about Air Canada but Air Transat just cancelled our flights for October to go to Barcelona and instead of notifying us, I got an email with vouchers attached.  Not acceptable.  This is over $1000 and the flight isn't for months yet, so I contacted my credit card (TD visa) and they reversed the charges.  This has been over 6 weeks ago now and I've heard nothing from either the credit card or airline saying they are fighting the charge back.  So going that route is worth at shot.  They are by law supposed to refund if you are flying to or from the US.

 

While on the phone with Visa she suggested I do the same for a girls trip late March that was cancelled and we had flights with Air Canada.  Those flights were around $300 so being as it was 6 of us girls we each just took the voucher option for those.  But we have not received them nor any communication from Air Canada since mid March.

[Fouremco]

53 minutes ago, doodlefan said:

This isn't about Air Canada but Air Transat just cancelled our flights for October to go to Barcelona and instead of notifying us, I got an email with vouchers attached.  Not acceptable.  This is over $1000 and the flight isn't for months yet, so I contacted my credit card (TD visa) and they reversed the charges.  This has been over 6 weeks ago now and I've heard nothing from either the credit card or airline saying they are fighting the charge back.  So going that route is worth at shot.  They are by law supposed to refund if you are flying to or from the US.

 

While on the phone with Visa she suggested I do the same for a girls trip late March that was cancelled and we had flights with Air Canada.  Those flights were around $300 so being as it was 6 of us girls we each just took the voucher option for those.  But we have not received them nor any communication from Air Canada since mid March.

While I agree with the highlighted sentence, I'm confused as to its relevance to a flight presumably from Canada to Spain. Or were you flying to the US first and taking Air Transat from there?

[doodlefan]

1 minute ago, Fouremco said:

While I agree with the highlighted sentence, I'm confused as to its relevance to a flight presumably from Canada to Spain. Or were you flying to the US first and taking Air Transat from there?

 

Sorry about the confusion, the cancelled Air Transat flight  Toronto to Barcelona that was for October 2020 , was just an example that you can dispute the charge on your visa and possibly get it reversed because while doing that one on the phone I mentioned my cancelled flight to Fort Lauderdale from Toronto on Air Canada that was cancelled late March at the same time, and the agent said I should dispute that too.    She said they have had many disputes and so far they all went through.

Again sorry about my ramblings.  😃

 

 

[Fouremco]

2 minutes ago, doodlefan said:

 

Sorry about the confusion, the cancelled Air Transat flight  Toronto to Barcelona that was for October 2020 , was just an example that you can dispute the charge on your visa and possibly get it reversed because while doing that one on the phone I mentioned my cancelled flight to Fort Lauderdale from Toronto on Air Canada that was cancelled late March at the same time, and the agent said I should dispute that too.    She said they have had many disputes and so far they all went through.

Again sorry about my ramblings.  😃

 

 

LOL. Better your ramblings than some of the heated posts we have to endure. I that hope you get a chance to rebook for Barcelona in the not-too-distant future.😷

[doodlefan]

2 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

LOL. Better your ramblings than some of the heated posts we have to endure. I that hope you get a chance to rebook for Barcelona in the not-too-distant future.😷

 

Thanks!  We have been to Barcelona but always love to return.  It was for the October 31/2020 Constellation TA out of Barcelona which is now officially cancelled.  We lifted and shifted to the Infinity October 19/2021 TA so hopefully that one will be a go.  I think it's time for me to "lift and shift" our January & February Caribbean cruises although it pains me to do so. 😪 Both are out of the US and I just don't see things getting turned around in time.  Maybe an all inclusive  resort late next spring direct from Toronto will be a possibility .  I sure will miss our cruises. 😕

[Fouremco]

1 minute ago, doodlefan said:

 

Thanks!  We have been to Barcelona but always love to return.  It was for the October 31/2020 Constellation TA out of Barcelona which is now officially cancelled.  We lifted and shifted to the Infinity October 19/2021 TA so hopefully that one will be a go.  I think it's time for me to "lift and shift" our January & February Caribbean cruises although it pains me to do so. 😪 Both are out of the US and I just don't see things getting turned around in time.  Maybe an all inclusive  resort late next spring direct from Toronto will be a possibility .  I sure will miss our cruises. 😕

We switched from AI resorts to cruising a number of years ago and are considering that for next year, although we remain dubious about any cruise or resort for 2021. Still, keeping our fingers crossed and watching the status of some of our preferred islands. We've already L&S'd early 2021 cruises to 2022. Much better chance of actually going,  but that seems sooooo far away.

[doodlefan]

1 minute ago, Fouremco said:

We switched from AI resorts to cruising a number of years ago and are considering that for next year, although we remain dubious about any cruise or resort for 2021. Still, keeping our fingers crossed and watching the status of some of our preferred islands. We've already L&S'd early 2021 cruises to 2022. Much better chance of actually going,  but that seems sooooo far away.

 

Yes it sure does seem so far away.  We too prefer cruises but will do an AI with my sister and husband as they prefer a week of just laying on the beach.  We may have no choice this year and possibly no holiday south at all.  Oh well maybe we'll drive out to the east coast late next spring. Take care until you cruise again!🙂

[Fouremco]

55 minutes ago, doodlefan said:

 

Yes it sure does seem so far away.  We too prefer cruises but will do an AI with my sister and husband as they prefer a week of just laying on the beach.  We may have no choice this year and possibly no holiday south at all.  Oh well maybe we'll drive out to the east coast late next spring. Take care until you cruise again!🙂

Ex-Haligonians, we head down east every couple of years, usually in early September. We're hoping that the Maritime Bubble might open up for a trip this year, but it seems unlikely. Stay healthy and enjoy whatever travel you manage! 😊

[ABoatNerd]

The OP here.

 

I have sent another detailed email to the Bank of Montreal Dispute group where my claim is, asking why the delay in posting my refund.  I have also filed with the US DOT.

Working on a communication to the head of US DOT, asking them to take action against Air Canada and ban them from the US.

 

Since most people use air to get to a cruise, keeping the airlines in order is necessary - otherwise we will be hijacked by arrogant air lines like Air Canada.

 

For my next cruise, it will be US airlines only.

[ABoatNerd]

OP again, here is an interesting article on how anti - consumer Air Canada is:

 

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/air-canada-has-most-refund-complaints-of-all-foreign-airlines-in-u-s-1.1458055

 

 

 

 

[RickT]

47 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

For my next cruise, it will be US airlines only.

Careful what you wish for.  As bad as Air Canada (and Westjet) the worst flight issues I’ve had were on US airlines.

 

Good luck getting your refund.

[-Lew-]

1 hour ago, ABoatNerd said:

I have sent another detailed email to the Bank of Montreal Dispute group where my claim is, asking why the delay in posting my refund. 

 

Canadian and US banking laws obviously differ when it comes to contesting a credit card charge.  As I mentioned above, my Air Transat charge was removed just one contact with my financial institution...a phone call.

 

You mention emailing Bank of Montreal.  Have you called them or visited your local branch?  I believe working with them is your best bet for a refund.  If you do call, ask to speak with a supervisor immediately to plead your case.

 

Good luck...

[bEwAbG]

I would be careful with the "detailed" letters you're starting to fire off.  A customer service person is more likely to respond favorably to a short, concise communication than trying to weed through rants to figure out what you want.  Give them sufficient time to address your issue or you may find yourself being purposely ignored, keeping in mind with the bank especially that they're dealing with lots more of these requests than usual.  Hard to tell from your posts as to when you started the credit card dispute, but if it was just within the last week or two, it's too soon for you to be sending a letter about it.  You also need to keep the emotion out of it and not make unreasonable demands (like banning Air Canada from the US, which just isn't going to happen) or you'll be written off as a crank.

[ABoatNerd]

bEwAbG, I totally concur. 

The credit card file is a month old with the bank. I use only facts and core information, 'facts mamm and only the facts".

 

The fact that other credit cards have refunded customers for the same Air Canada configuration (from Canada to the US) as noted in earlier posts, provides some real life peer pressure.

 

Thanks to everyone, "many hands make light work".

 

[bebe08]

To the OP if your bank isn't able to help try escalating the the ombudsman at the bank.  I did this recently for another credit card issue (unrelated to travel) and my concern was quickly addressed.    Here is some info https://cba.ca/resolving-problems-with-your-bank

[npcl]

It will be interesting how this pans out with Air Canada claiming per this article

 

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/air-canada-has-most-refund-complaints-of-all-foreign-airlines-in-u-s-1.1458055

 

That the US DOT refund requirements do not have the "force of law".  Will be interesting to see what position is taken by the Canadian Government in this issue.  Looks like Air Canada is willing to take on both the EU and the US refund requirements.

[BEAV]

7 hours ago, bEwAbG said:

I would be careful with the "detailed" letters you're starting to fire off.  A customer service person is more likely to respond favorably to a short, concise communication than trying to weed through rants to figure out what you want.  Give them sufficient time to address your issue or you may find yourself being purposely ignored, keeping in mind with the bank especially that they're dealing with lots more of these requests than usual.  Hard to tell from your posts as to when you started the credit card dispute, but if it was just within the last week or two, it's too soon for you to be sending a letter about it.  You also need to keep the emotion out of it and not make unreasonable demands (like banning Air Canada from the US, which just isn't going to happen) or you'll be written off as a crank.

 

Excellent advice.

 

Sometimes, less is more. 

[Turtles06]

11 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

For my next cruise, it will be US airlines only.

As I said in my earlier comment, we have some pretty bad airlines in the U.S. as well when it comes to things like this. That’s why DOT had to issue warnings to them about refunds, and yet people still have to fight with them. 
 

Good luck.