Bay of Biscay in the Summer

[jeanlyon]

It really does depend on where the wind and swell is coming from.  If it's on the nose, then the ship will pitch up and down.  If it's on the side or further aft, then she will roll.  I would not want to be in an aft cabin high up if she was rolling.  It's like a corkscrew effect.

[terrierjohn]

51 minutes ago, ann141 said:

We have sailed on Ventura several times and have only had the problem on the Caribbean round trip January 2019.We are booked to do the 35 night trip on her in january 2021 so it hasn t put me off sailing on her but there were quite a lot of people who had been cruising for years who said they had never known anything like it.

Anne, Someone suggested that the wind had been very strong on one side, and to counter this the ballast had been pumped over  to counteract the list.  The wind veered dramatically completely around, and the result was the port side almost appeared to be about to hit the sea, it almost rolled me out of bed, and took about 30 minutes for the resultant list to be corrected.

We then had a similar experience later in the morning when, we changed direction rather too rapidly,  as we turned towards  La Coruna to helivac an ill paasenger.

The Captain kept telling us all was well, but it certainly did not feel like it.

We had a much windier crossing of the B.O.B. on Independence OTS in July 2019 without any scares at all, but she is a much more sea worthy design than the Grand Princess class.

[grapau27]

14 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Anne, Someone suggested that the wind had been very strong on one side, and to counter this the ballast had been pumped over  to counteract the list.  The wind veered dramatically completely around, and the result was the port side almost appeared to be about to hit the sea, it almost rolled me out of bed, and took about 30 minutes for the resultant list to be corrected.

We then had a similar experience later in the morning when, we changed direction rather too rapidly,  as we turned towards  La Coruna to helivac an ill paasenger.

The Captain kept telling us all was well, but it certainly did not feel like it.

We had a much windier crossing of the B.O.B. on Independence OTS in July 2019 without any scares at all, but she is a much more sea worthy design than the Grand Princess class.

The most stable ships we have been on are the RCL Oasis class Harmony and Allure of the seas.

They are the biggest ships in the world but also twice the width of ships like Ventura.

[Adawn47]

3 hours ago, grapau27 said:

We have been on Ventura several times with no listing problems so the stabiliser jamming would cause the list as would non use of stabilisers to save money on fuel.

It definitely wasn't to save on fuel Graham, believe me. It was on Remberance Sunday during the Captains service when it happened, and he flew up to the bridge While the rest of us picked ourselves up off the floor😁. Every port we docked in , the divers went down to try and fix it. It was an interesting cruise😊

Avril

[grapau27]

34 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

It definitely wasn't to save on fuel Graham, believe me. It was on Remberance Sunday during the Captains service when it happened, and he flew up to the bridge While the rest of us picked ourselves up off the floor😁. Every port we docked in , the divers went down to try and fix it. It was an interesting cruise😊

Avril

That must have been very disturbing Avril.

RCL Navigator of the seas had a stabiliser snap off in October 2018.

I had heard some ships are reluctant to deploy stabilisers to save money.

I find the bigger RCL ships very stable and you would never know you were in the middle of the ocean.

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by grapau27

[Son of Anarchy]

Although stabilisers are great at reducing roll, I have been told that they don't do as much for pitching.  Additionally, they are less efficient at low speed.  And high speed can increase pitching!  So direction of swell and wind all play a part in the balancing act of what is most comfortable.

[Adawn47]

7 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

That must have been very disturbing Avril.

RCL Navigator of the seas had a stabiliser snap off in October 2018.

I had heard some ships are reluctant to deploy stabilisers to save money.

I find the bigger RCL ships very stable and you would never know you were in the middle of the ocean.

 

It was the surprise more than anything. We managed to make our way back to our cabin and the Captain said he was going to have to turn her quickly into the wind, and that she would list more but not to worry just "sit down, hold on and brace yourself". Words I never want to hear again.😱 

Avril

[grapau27]

2 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

It was the surprise more than anything. We managed to make our way back to our cabin and the Captain said he was going to have to turn her quickly into the wind, and that she would list more but not to worry just "sit down, hold on and brace yourself". Words I never want to hear again.😱 

Avril

I can understand that,I certainly wouldn't want to hear that either.

 

[showingdiva]

4 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Arcadia is just as flat bottomed as all the other P&O ships, AFAIK QM2 is the only modern cruise ship built like an old style ocean liner.

 

Have to agree with this.  Having spent most of my life on a variety of commercial and passenger ships, Queen Mary 2's effortless glide took me aback.   The BoB has been like a millpond the last twice I've been through it, but have experienced two Force 9's on Arcadia (outside Lisbon and between Oslo and Copenhagen).  She coped very well.  Also been in a Force 7/8 on Aurora, again felt safe.   Stabilisers out on each occasion.

Edited September 10, 2020 by showingdiva

[Adawn47]

9 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

I can understand that,I certainly wouldn't want to hear that either.

 

Funnily enough, I never felt frightened. The captain, Alistair Cooke had such a confidant and calming voice and demeanour that I felt completely safe, if a little wind-tossed.😵

Avril

[grapau27]

21 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

Funnily enough, I never felt frightened. The captain, Alistair Cooke had such a confidant and calming voice and demeanour that I felt completely safe, if a little wind-tossed.😵

Avril

We were on Sea Princess in May 2006 when there was a norovirus outbreak as well as force 11/12 winds off Ushant SW France which caused us to miss a port.

The ships captain told us it was the worst he had ever experienced.

It was very scary with a lot of sideways and up and down movement,lots of glasses were broken and a few cabin windows too.

Edited September 10, 2020 by grapau27

[DamianG]

10 hours ago, grapau27 said:

We were on Sea Princess in May 2006 when there was a norovirus outbreak as well as force 11/12 winds off Ushant SW France which caused us to miss a port.

The ships captain told us it was the worst he had ever experienced.

It was very scary with a lot of sideways and up and down movement,lots of glasses were broken and a few cabin windows too.

 

That sounds horrendous and it would have definitely seen me having to lay down flat on the bed!

 

The worst we had was on our favourite ship, Oriana, in January 2012. The Captain reported the swells to be between 5/6 metres and (touch wood) it's the last time I was seasick. We've been on Azura, Britannia and Ventura since then with no problems and have been lucky with the Bay of Biscay several times. 

[zap99]

14 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Anne, Someone suggested that the wind had been very strong on one side, and to counter this the ballast had been pumped over  to counteract the list.  The wind veered dramatically completely around, and the result was the port side almost appeared to be about to hit the sea, it almost rolled me out of bed, and took about 30 minutes for the resultant list to be corrected.

We then had a similar experience later in the morning when, we changed direction rather too rapidly,  as we turned towards  La Coruna to helivac an ill paasenger.

The Captain kept telling us all was well, but it certainly did not feel like it.

We had a much windier crossing of the B.O.B. on Independence OTS in July 2019 without any scares at all, but she is a much more sea worthy design than the Grand Princess class.

Our first crossing of BoB was on Indy. The forecast when we left Southampton was for force 11 the next day. When we woke up the next morning I thought " Forecast was wrong, steady as a rock". I opened the curtains an it did look rough. When I opened the balcony door I nearly go sucked out. Good ship in a storm is IoS.😁

[john watson]

On 9/10/2020 at 12:37 PM, AnnieC said:

Unless they've cured it, Ventura lists quite alarmingly in rough seas.

 

I think this is incorrect Annie, when a ship lists it may be either to port or starboard but it leans in that direction and then stays at that angle.  This might be due to taking on water and it settling on one side causing a list.  A list should give rise to serious concern.  Alternately leaning to port then starboard is rolling.

 

Modern cruise ships tend to be slightly less stable than those from years ago as they are built big and tall with a shallow draft or draught to enable getting into a greater number of ports.  I understand they have tanks that can be filled to make them heavier drop lower in the ocean and be more stable but this must add to fuel economy.

 

Regards John

[john watson]

On 9/10/2020 at 12:37 PM, AnnieC said:

 

 

On average I would suggest that in one direction you will experience higher seas but this could be overnight. The reason BoB is so unpredictable is that the French coast acts like a parabolic reflector of waves.  The sea gets shallower near to land.  The Wind is coming freely from miles away across the Atlantic and different ocean currents are in conflict.

 

Regards John

Edited September 11, 2020 by john watson

[AnnieC]

44 minutes ago, john watson said:

 

I think this is incorrect Annie, when a ship lists it may be either to port or starboard but it leans in that direction and then stays at that angle.  This might be due to taking on water and it settling on one side causing a list.  A list should give rise to serious concern.  Alternately leaning to port then starboard is rolling.

 

Modern cruise ships tend to be slightly less stable than those from years ago as they are built big and tall with a shallow draft or draught to enable getting into a greater number of ports.  I understand they have tanks that can be filled to make them heavier drop lower in the ocean and be more stable but this must add to fuel economy.

 

Regards John

Many thanks, John; I happily stand corrected and next time will take comfort from the fact it's not listing, despite the fact it leant in the same direction for a long time - it was definitely not leaning to port then starboard. It just leant, one way then stayed there. Quite a few of us seem to have had the same experience...

[jeanlyon]

Not a nice experience 😞

[john watson]

38 minutes ago, AnnieC said:

Many thanks, John; I happily stand corrected and next time will take comfort from the fact it's not listing, despite the fact it leant in the same direction for a long time - it was definitely not leaning to port then starboard. It just leant, one way then stayed there. Quite a few of us seem to have had the same experience...

 

Hi Annie,

 

The Americans call this "Heeling" and a serious case of this happened on Crown Princess 18 July 2006.  It is therefore infrequent but "Crown" is a sister to Ventura but has one fewer decks making Crown technically more stable.  There is a YouTube video on what they call an accident but it was more of an incident.  Search for "Heeling Accident on M/V Crown Princess - Full Version" This is the National Transport Safety Board's explanation and conclusion as to what happened causing the problem.  A series of YouTube videos show the effect this had on the ship and its passengers search for "Crown Princess Incident 1" "Crown Princess Incident 2 Shockwaves" then increase the digit by 1 each time and see how a multitude of places on the ship were significantly affected.  I thought the handling of the children at Shockwaves was really good and I see no injuries. If Ventura listed significantly I feel this might have been a similar but less significant example of control inputs which were not ideal.

 

Regards John

[terrierjohn]

11 minutes ago, john watson said:

 

Hi Annie,

 

The Americans call this "Heeling" and a serious case of this happened on Crown Princess 18 July 2006.  It is therefore infrequent but "Crown" is a sister to Ventura but has one fewer decks making Crown technically more stable.  There is a YouTube video on what they call an accident but it was more of an incident.  Search for "Heeling Accident on M/V Crown Princess - Full Version" This is the National Transport Safety Board's explanation and conclusion as to what happened causing the problem.  A series of YouTube videos show the effect this had on the ship and its passengers search for "Crown Princess Incident 1" "Crown Princess Incident 2 Shockwaves" then increase the digit by 1 each time and see how a multitude of places on the ship were significantly affected.  I thought the handling of the children at Shockwaves was really good and I see no injuries. If Ventura listed significantly I feel this might have been a similar but less significant example of control inputs which were not ideal.

 

Regards John

John  heeling occurs when a ship turns too tightly, it is very often experienced as your ship leaves Southampton and follows the channel as you pass east of the IOW.

One of the Ventura incidents Anne and I experienced, the change of course to La Coruna was initiated by healing, but the resulting crosswind made it very difficult for the bridge to stabilise it until after the helivac was complete and we could resume our course.

However the early morning one involved no change of course, it was wind sheer, according to the captain exacerbated by the fact that the ballast had been pumped over to one side to counter the strong wind pushing the ship over, so as the wind flipped direction the wind on the opposite side, coupled with the now incorrect ballast, resulted in a very strong list which took a few hours to correct.

Incidentally Crown Princess was the first of the Super Grand class with the extra deck.

[john watson]

5 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

 Crown Princess was the first of the Super Grand class with the extra deck.

 

You are correct there John.  I had confused it with "Star".  The other modification was moving the "pram handle" night club arrangement to further forward.  I think that gave a lot of leverage in high winds right over the stern.

 

Regards John

[KnowTheScore]

I will echo other's statements that Biscay can be a complete mill pond.   I've done over 35 cruises from Southampton and I'd say really bad crossings are few and far between.   A little swell is expected and then it comes down to various factors as to how that affects you.

 

Ships

 

The larger, longer ships will tend to pitch and sway more than smaller ones.   Ventura/Azura are long and so the number of meters they rise up at the front and back can be significant in high swells.  To the extent that I personally wouldn't dream of venturing there in such weather and would stay totally midships, thereby sacrificing any evening shows or any trips to the buffet at the back and so on.   The ships all have stabilisers but their effectiveness various tremendously.  

 

Oriana, for me, used to sail badly which I think was partly due to her perpetual propeller prop shaft fault.  Thankfully she has now left the fleet.

 

Aurora sails really well imho and it takes a significant swell for things to be bad on her.   I've been in force 12's on Aurora where cabin windows on deck 5 were smashed in due to the force of the waves crashing against them at 1am in the morning.  Scary stuff when you're a newbie or not yet used to such harsh weather, yet the ship was never in danger and you just hunkered down in your cabin until it abated.

 

Arcadia too is a decent sail I find though in the current Covid situation she would be the very last ship on my list due to the very well known issues with her overly strong ventilation system.  To the point I just would not sail on her and would pick another cruise line until and unless that air con system was ripped out and replaced.

 

Can't speak for Britannia or Iona but being even larger ships I would expect them to be worse affected by high winds and swells.

 

 

Captains

 

Believe it or not your captain makes a huge difference.  It is your captain who chooses whether to deploy the stabilisers or not and the temptation to sometimes not do so in order to save fuel (which is very costly) I think is significant.  Some captains have gained a reputation for putting the comfort of passengers first.  Others have not.   At the top of my list of great captains is Neil "Storm Dodger" Turnbull.   He will do whatever it takes to either completely dodge a storm (leaving ports early or late to miss them or speeding up/down accordingly during the trip).  Other posters will probably have contributions in this respect.

 

There have been many instances on my many cruises when I instinctively feel that the stabilisers have been brought in because ships which I have sailed on many times are swaying and pitching more than they need to.  It comes down to the individual captain.

 

Medication

 

Provided you have and take sea sick medication properly, then Biscay need never concern you or adversely affect your cruise.

Be sure to take it BEFORE you set sail otherwise it's efficacy is greatly reduced.   Always listen to captain's announcements to understand whether the conditions are likely to be choppy.  Learn "captain" speak too.  They generally play down bad weather so if there's any remarks about swells and winds then take your tablets.

 

Cabin Selection

 

If you are prone to sea sickness then go midships every time.  I'm eternally jealous of those stalwart cruisers who are totally immune and oblivious to significant ship movement and even enjoy it.  Those people can pick cheap cabins and last minute deals without fear.

 

Biscay vs Atlantic

 

Just want to point out here that there is a general fallacy about Biscay.  It has gained a rather unfair notoriety imo as much of the time it is quite calm or has just a mild swell.    In all my trips I can confidently say that in fact it is the 2nd leg of the journey that is by far the more likely to be rough and that's the leg the other side of Biscay running down the coast of North Spain and Portugal.  This stretch can be very fickle and much of the time you will be sailing into the wind at a slight angle.  This tends to induce a "corkscrew" motion in the larger ships like Ventura/Azura which is why a number of posters have highlighted those ships.  It's an unpleasant experience when it happens.

 

I would also say that if you are on a cruise that is visiting ports actually in Biscay then things will be much better than simply sailing right across her.  I remember quite fondly the short 7-9 nt trips P&O used to do in this respect that called at places like Brest and La Rochelle.  Sadly they seemed to fizzle out.  

 

So all in all not much to worry about imho.  Get a mid-ships cabin, hope for a sympathetic captain and bring your mediation.

 

ATB

[jeanlyon]

I can also say that in a small sailing boat, you are definitely IN the Bay of Biscay, as normally hugging the coast.  In a ship, you are technically not crossing the actual Bay, as you are out in deeper water.  What makes the BoB so lumpy is the water in the Deep Atlantic hitting the shallow depths of the Bay

[Angel57]

I would completely agree with comment re Captain Turnbull. Have done several long cruises with him and he kept us safe and afloat! Yes, he likes the microphone a bit too much at times, but when he addresses the passengers by announcing himself as the Captain as opposed to Captaine you took note and listened carefully.
He is always very appreciative of his crew too and (rightly imo) let them run down the gangways to their families before allowing the passengers off on our call into Mumbai a few years ago.
I would also agree with taking medication before it gets rough. I was told by ship’s doctor the likes of Avomine work better as a preventative as opposed to a cure....

[jeanlyon]

I find the crystallised ginger does much the same.  Start taking a little on the day before we cruise.

 

After 19 days on board with that Captain we were nearly driven mad with his announcements, they were so childish.  However, I'm sure he's excellent at the job.

Edited September 12, 2020 by jeanlyon

[AnnieC]

43 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

 

So all in all not much to worry about imho.  Get a mid-ships cabin, hope for a sympathetic captain and bring your mediation.

 

ATB

Top tip - I can see why you would find a mediator jolly handy on your holidays.🤣