When will we sail the Hawaiian Islands Again?

[Silver Sweethearts]

1 minute ago, Von & John said:

 

@dumbth

Quick question for you...

Were the protests/confrontations before or during C-19?

 

We aren't "dumbth", but can report they were well before C-19.

[Von & John]

Thanks @Silver Sweethearts

[BermudaBound2014]

9 hours ago, dumbth said:

 

Small ships can be violently tossed around by high winds and waves that funnel between Hawaiian islands, esp when going upwind. I think the coast guard would require expensive hardcore seagoing capability, probably more like Norwegian coastal steamers than those flimsy river steamers. I have made various HI interisland trips in small boats and half the time arrived beat up and exhausted, while others got physically ill.

 

Also new modes of visits can meet resistance; Kauai activists met maiden voyages of a ferry with violent confrontations, and Molokai protested a small cruise ship's test visit.

 

We are talking Hawaii not Drakes passage. There are a plethora of small cruise ships that routinely sail in waters much harsher than those surrounding Hawaii. I worked on a charter fishing boat sailing from Oahu when I lived here in the 80's, and yes, people got ill. Our friends got ill when we took them fishing on Lake Michigan last year. It happens. Possible Sea sickness is not a reason to limit thinking outside the box imo. 

 

I do agree that there is some long standing local resistance to any form of tourism here. Hawaii does have limited resources and much crowding.  There were protests at the airport when Ige finally opened up Hawaii to tourists (with covid testing) on October 15th. There are those currently protesting Mayor Victornio here on Maui due to perceived covid numbers rising. Some locals show tourists no aloha. Others, show much aloha. Just like any other major tourist destination that people call home.

 

Bottom line, if a ship holds less than 250 people it is not subject to the CDC 'conditions to sail' order.  I'm not suggesting it would be easy, but it's not impossible. If anyone wants to chip in and buy a small cruise ship I hear they are going really cheap on the open market ;-).

 

[Silver Sweethearts]

35 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Bottom line, if a ship holds less than 250 people it is not subject to the CDC 'conditions to sail' order.  I'm not suggesting it would be easy, but it's not impossible. If anyone wants to chip in and buy a small cruise ship I hear they are going really cheap on the open market ;-).

 

The Safari Explorer does cruises within Hawaii part of the year (and does Alaska part-time too we believe).  A little too informal for us, but at 36 passengers it might fill the bill for some.

[BirdTravels]

On 2/8/2021 at 11:25 PM, sugcarol said:

 I was shocked to see on tv that cases went from 252,000 a month ago and now it is 87,000. That is fabulous news. We are on the downhill slide.

The drop in COVID cases has little to do with the vaccinations. Consider that the first round of vaccinations went to healthcare workers who have been working with COVID for a year and are typically not the source of super spread. The next went to nursing home residents, again not the likely source of super spread. The next were 75+, probably not on the party scene. 

 

The spike we have been seeing are all the people "who know better" and held Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year gatherings. The second round of infections from Thanksgiving infected people brought the virus to their Christmas parties. And the people who caught it at Christmas brought it to new years parties. And we're just getting control of all those who "knew better" and caused an exponential growth in COVID cases. 

[sugcarol]

On 2/13/2021 at 7:19 PM, BirdTravels said:

The drop in COVID cases has little to do with the vaccinations. Consider that the first round of vaccinations went to healthcare workers who have been working with COVID for a year and are typically not the source of super spread. The next went to nursing home residents, again not the likely source of super spread. The next were 75+, probably not on the party scene. 

 

The spike we have been seeing are all the people "who know better" and held Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year gatherings. The second round of infections from Thanksgiving infected people brought the virus to their Christmas parties. And the people who caught it at Christmas brought it to new years parties. And we're just getting control of all those who "knew better" and caused an exponential growth in COVID cases. 

There have been 28 million cases in US. Most have recovered. There have been 54 million vaccinations given since December 18th. More vaccines have been given than there have been cases. Your glass is half empty and mine is half full.

[sugcarol]

Rec'd email with this link

 

Hawaii Vaccine & Health Passport Information for COVID-19 (hawaii-guide.com)

[farmersfight]

On 2/13/2021 at 5:33 PM, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

We are talking Hawaii not Drakes passage. There are a plethora of small cruise ships that routinely sail in waters much harsher than those surrounding Hawaii. I worked on a charter fishing boat sailing from Oahu when I lived here in the 80's, and yes, people got ill. Our friends got ill when we took them fishing on Lake Michigan last year. It happens. Possible Sea sickness is not a reason to limit thinking outside the box imo. 

 

I do agree that there is some long standing local resistance to any form of tourism here. Hawaii does have limited resources and much crowding.  There were protests at the airport when Ige finally opened up Hawaii to tourists (with covid testing) on October 15th. There are those currently protesting Mayor Victornio here on Maui due to perceived covid numbers rising. Some locals show tourists no aloha. Others, show much aloha. Just like any other major tourist destination that people call home.

 

Bottom line, if a ship holds less than 250 people it is not subject to the CDC 'conditions to sail' order.  I'm not suggesting it would be easy, but it's not impossible. If anyone wants to chip in and buy a small cruise ship I hear they are going really cheap on the open market ;-).

 

 

Hi @BermudaBound2014,

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly! Speaking of smaller ships and Drake Passage, I believe the Norwegian Star (a smaller cruise ship) sails through Drake Passage (around "The Horn"), going from the west coast of S. America (Chile) to the east coast of S. America (Argentina).

 

 

This will give you an idea what might be encountered on a smaller vessel sailing Drake Passage;

 

 

Interesting that you worked on a charter fishing boat from Oahu in the 80's. I've had my fair share of rough seas on a smaller vessel as I worked on supply boats (180 ft) in the GOM during the winter months. And ironically (& cruel imo), I'm a sailor who is susceptible to sea sickness! I coped by taking Dramamine (before the non-drowsy kind came out) and had to pound coffee to stay awake.

 

I'm in Michigan also (Muskegon). I once took the car ferry City of Midland 41 across Lake Michigan in December (when they used to run them all year round to transport rail cars). Talk about sea sick! Great Lakes waves can be worse than ocean waves because of their amplitude.

 

Regarding the locals in Hawaii, yeah I do remember them protesting the start up of an inter island ferry service. Did those protests cause that ferry to not start up operations? I wonder how NCL successfully operates the Pride of America (large ship) without the locals protesting. Or do they? Btw, I'm booked on PoA in October (my 1st time in Hawaii). Hope it goes. Fingers crossed 🤞.

 

If you don't mind me asking, what part of Michigan are you in?

Edited February 19, 2021 by farmersfight

[Silver Sweethearts]

1 hour ago, farmersfight said:

Regarding the locals in Hawaii, yeah I do remember them protesting the start up of an inter island ferry service. Did those protests cause that ferry to not start up operations? I wonder how NCL successfully operates the Pride of America (large ship) without the locals protesting. Or do they? Btw, I'm booked on PoA in October (my 1st time in Hawaii). Hope it goes. Fingers crossed 🤞.

 

If you don't mind me asking, what part of Michigan are you in?

 

There was a great difference between what the POA provided and what the Superferry provided. They both float, but the similarity stops there.  The ferry was operating without an EIR, and that did not help it.  Just Google "Hawaii Superferry" and you can read all the details pro and con that went with the idea of a ferry.

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, Silver Sweethearts said:

 

There was a great difference between what the POA provided and what the Superferry provided. They both float, but the similarity stops there.  The ferry was operating without an EIR, and that did not help it.  Just Google "Hawaii Superferry" and you can read all the details pro and con that went with the idea of a ferry.

I was there when the protests were going on, and while it is true that the vessel had not completed an EIS (environmental impact statement), it was working on a law passed earlier, but that was struck down by the courts.  One of the big points was high speed through the whale calving grounds, and the ship passed USCG mandated emergency maneuvering trials when built, just for this reason.  Also, complaints were made about cars being able to carry non-indigenous species between islands.  However, neither the barge services (Young Bros and Sause) that provide inter-island transportation of vehicles (in a container), nor the local airlines have any restrictions on cleaning or inspecting their cargo or vessels for non-indigenous species, and it is widely known that these two industries were financing the "environmental" protests against the ferry, that would have seriously impacted their monopolies.

[NikiPinkston]

18 hours ago, sugcarol said:

Rec'd email with this link

 

Hawaii Vaccine & Health Passport Information for COVID-19 (hawaii-guide.com)

Very interesting....As Hawaii will allow vaccinated travelers to visit without quarantining & testing as early as March or April,  I wonder how this will influence sailing on the POA.

 

"A potential Spring / Summer 2021 timeline has been proposed for Hawaii vaccination "passport" travel to begin/March - April timeline for Inter-Island Travel, potentially early May for trans-Pacific travel

 

In mid-December 2020, we initially received word that Lieutenant Governor Josh Green, who is both a physician and is in charge of Hawaii's Safe Travels program, had said that he would ask the governor to approve travel both trans-Pacific and interisland for anyone who has had a COVID vaccination without further requirements starting in early 2021. For travelers who choose not to get vaccinated, we believe the current restrictions, testing requirements, and quarantine policy are likely to remain in effect for most, if not all, of 2021 and potentially beyond."

 

BTW, definitely getting the vaccine, just waiting for a phone call.

 

 

 

[sugcarol]

We have had second Moderna dose 2/6. But I wonder if that is too far in advance of POA cruise the end of November. Wondering if we will require a booster. We are prepared to do an island trip but again wonder if we will need a booster. Still so many questions.

[chengkp75]

Probably the biggest question for POA sailing is crew vaccination.  This is mainly a young demographic, so very low on the vaccine totem pole.  Secondly, unlike the international crew, there is not a large pool of crew, since all US crew need to be credentialed mariners, so if some crew have moved on from NCL, then it will take time to get a fully credentialed crew back to the ship.

[NikiPinkston]

21 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Probably the biggest question for POA sailing is crew vaccination.  This is mainly a young demographic, so very low on the vaccine totem pole.  Secondly, unlike the international crew, there is not a large pool of crew, since all US crew need to be credentialed mariners, so if some crew have moved on from NCL, then it will take time to get a fully credentialed crew back to the ship.

chengkp75, do you think crew could be vaccinated under the CDC's phase 1C as it includes  transportation workers?  I realize they're not "essential workers" but I'm curious as my BIL is a longshoreman & he qualifies.

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, NikiPinkston said:

chengkp75, do you think crew could be vaccinated under the CDC's phase 1C as it includes  transportation workers?  I realize they're not "essential workers" but I'm curious as my BIL is a longshoreman & he qualifies.

First, that will depend on the state where they live, and their priority schedule.  Second, while I have been listed as "essential" since the start of the pandemic by the federal government, according to the CDC guidelines, transportation and logistics workers are in "phase 1c", which in my state will not be eligible until May-June.  Further, the state is reviewing the "phase 1b" "frontline workers" of the CDC guidelines as to whether they will actually be in that phase or pushed lower.  I actually have a better chance of getting the vaccine in Maine due to my age.

 

As you say, if the crew present themselves as cruise ship crew, I don't think they will get "essential" status, particularly given their average age.

[farmersfight]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

transportation and logistics workers are in "phase 1c", which in my state will not be eligible until May-June. 

 

I know I should probably look this up but by chance, do you happen to know when transportation and logistic workers in Hawaii (which I would assume would include the PoA crew) will be eligible for the vaccine(s)? Thanks in advance...

[farmersfight]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I was there when the protests were going on, and while it is true that the vessel had not completed an EIS (environmental impact statement), it was working on a law passed earlier, but that was struck down by the courts.  One of the big points was high speed through the whale calving grounds, and the ship passed USCG mandated emergency maneuvering trials when built, just for this reason.  Also, complaints were made about cars being able to carry non-indigenous species between islands.  However, neither the barge services (Young Bros and Sause) that provide inter-island transportation of vehicles (in a container), nor the local airlines have any restrictions on cleaning or inspecting their cargo or vessels for non-indigenous species, and it is widely known that these two industries were financing the "environmental" protests against the ferry, that would have seriously impacted their monopolies.

 

Excellent information with great insight, background & history (as usual). Thanks for posting this @chengkp75.

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

 

I know I should probably look this up but by chance, do you happen to know when transportation and logistic workers in Hawaii (which I would assume would include the PoA crew) will be eligible for the vaccine(s)? Thanks in advance...

No, it will depend on the state of residence of the crew, nearly 100% of which are not Hawaiian.  Since the crew are not in Hawaii, Hawaii will not vaccinate them.  Hawaii's plan also lists transportation workers as group 1c, but they don't list a time frame for when each phase will be called.

[farmersfight]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

No, it will depend on the state of residence of the crew, nearly 100% of which are not Hawaiian.  Since the crew are not in Hawaii, Hawaii will not vaccinate them.  Hawaii's plan also lists transportation workers as group 1c, but they don't list a time frame for when each phase will be called.

 

My bad. I should've realized that the crew members are all not living in Hawaii, so it is dependent on the state they are living in. Thanks again.

[NikiPinkston]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

First, that will depend on the state where they live, and their priority schedule.  Second, while I have been listed as "essential" since the start of the pandemic by the federal government, according to the CDC guidelines, transportation and logistics workers are in "phase 1c", which in my state will not be eligible until May-June.  Further, the state is reviewing the "phase 1b" "frontline workers" of the CDC guidelines as to whether they will actually be in that phase or pushed lower.  I actually have a better chance of getting the vaccine in Maine due to my age.

 

As you say, if the crew present themselves as cruise ship crew, I don't think they will get "essential" status, particularly given their average age.

Thank you, chengkp75.  Your experience and insight are always appreciated.

[BermudaBound2014]

On 2/18/2021 at 8:02 PM, farmersfight said:

 

Hi @BermudaBound2014,

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly! Speaking of smaller ships and Drake Passage, I believe the Norwegian Star (a smaller cruise ship) sails through Drake Passage (around "The Horn"), going from the west coast of S. America (Chile) to the east coast of S. America (Argentina).....

 

Regarding the locals in Hawaii, yeah I do remember them protesting the start up of an inter island ferry service. Did those protests cause that ferry to not start up operations? I wonder how NCL successfully operates the Pride of America (large ship) without the locals protesting. Or do they? Btw, I'm booked on PoA in October (my 1st time in Hawaii). Hope it goes. Fingers crossed 🤞.

 

If you don't mind me asking, what part of Michigan are you in?

Ironically we were scheduled to sail HAL Westerdam to Antarctica Jan 2021. That was cancelled and it's how I ended up wintering in Maui. My permanent residence is about 45 minutes north of Ann Arbor.

 

I don't believe there are active protests against POM in Hawaiian ports, but I am quite confident there is passive resentment as there are groups/organizations who are desperately trying to limit tourism (pre-covid). Regarding covid; Oahu just opened up to phase 3 and the Mayor of Maui just opened up public pools here. Both decisions are being met with some local resistance. Maui positivity rate is 4.1 today (changes daily) and there is a group still wanting to shut down all incoming tourists until everyone is vaccinated. 

 

As I've mentioned, each county (island) is doing something different. Right now, Kauai is requiring an additional 72 hours stay in a government approved resort bubble upon arrival. Seems like a really good way for Kauai resort bubble resorts to generate serious income; but no denying the strategy is working to keep Kauai covid numbers the lowest. As an outsider on Maui, it appears there are polarized views about tourism with many residents welcoming visitors (HI income does rely heavily on tourism) and those that wish to see the islands protected from Covid (now) and over-population (in general). I suggest joining some of the social media sites specific to Hawaii to learn about the groups that want the islands to remain limited to visitors if interested. 

 

In the meantime, I still don't see how POM will operate here by the fall. I could be wrong, but it sure seems like there is enough local resistance  (and inconsistent policy for inner island travel) to make cruising extremely challenging in the near future. Then again, the economy is taking a beating here and opening up to tourism will provide some relief. I just read of another 3 restaurants permanently closing here on Maui (restaurants are operating at 30% max and must close by 10 p.m.). Like with all things covid, time will tell I suppose. 

 

 

[farmersfight]

7 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

That was cancelled and it's how I ended up wintering in Maui.

 

Now that's the way to spend Michigan winters! I'm envious. Wish I would've thought of that;

 

 

Thanks for the great feedback/info regarding Hawaii, btw. Much appreciated.

[dumbth]

Temper expectations about HI gov't plans and schedules, and supposed resident opinions. Hawaii is a place of micromanaged mandates but ramshackle enforcement. It leaked out how vax were often being given with minimal checking of eligibility, and those in charge mainly asked for cooperation rather than closing loopholes. The sites where checking is least were identified, and maybe that's why they have had to delay for instance 65yr vax to some indeterminate time when demand tapers off.

 

If NCL was aggressive they might exploit loopholes for crew and passengers to get vax, but as usual they will join us good citizen types in being victimized by queue jumpers. We who could restart the economy are destined for uncertainty and delay. It's kind of predictable since the islands are not so much a unified melting pot but a deadlock of unusually diverse demographics and goals.

Edited February 25, 2021 by dumbth

[Silver Sweethearts]

Gee, do you get the idea that some posters here aren't too happy about the way Hawaii is being run??  

 

Do note that "POM" should be "POA".

 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

On 2/25/2021 at 9:40 PM, Silver Sweethearts said:

Gee, do you get the idea that some posters here aren't too happy about the way Hawaii is being run??  

 

Do note that "POM" should be "POA".

 

 

 

Yes, of course, How embarrassing. POA...I've tried to fire my spell checker numerous times. 

 

I'm a mere 4 month visitor on Maui, but what I have learned in a short time is that this lovely island consists of tweekers on the corner and golfers spending $700 a round. Food bank lines stretching miles, and sunset catamaran dinner cruises. I'm not entirely new to Hawaii (having lived here in the 80's) and we've  been working with an agent on a possible real-estate investment.  I must say several current policies do give me pause. However; I acknowledge that the economic diversity alone must be very challenging for political leaders.

 

Getting back to the OP's original question. As a full time resident in Upcountry Maui; When do you foresee Hawaii allowing POA to resume cruising?