New health Protocols

[jeanlyon]

I think a Tier 5 would just be a total lockdown, like we had last March.  There is no other way really.

[bee-ess]

We are the only council (Waverley) in Surrey that has remained Tier 2 luckily. At least we can meet our family also in Waverley for Xmas day. I don't think we will stay in Tier 2 for long though as the adjoining council to us in Guildford is Tier 4 and I don't think Covid respects council borders.

[No pager thank you]

1 minute ago, jeanlyon said:

I think a Tier 5 would just be a total lockdown, like we had last March.  There is no other way really.

Tend to agree ... question is, would it definitely be England wide, have to see?

 

I think that a Tier 5 "local approach" would prove totally unenforceable, like the Tier 4 restrictions are now.  There are all number of reasons why you can  travel, you are essentially relying on the goodwill of the population in the main.  

 

Unless you are silly enough to organise a house party of course!

[yorkshirephil]

6 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I was wondering what effect this new strain of the virus will have on the restart of cruising.

 

it is said that the new strain is 70% more infectious.

 

I wouldn’t be keen on joining a closed community when there’s something that infectious going round.

 

I think a significant portion of the population will need to be vaccinated and the virus transmission rate will have to be driven down to a very low figure before they can even consider restarting.

 

I had thought they’d get some short scenic cruises sailing in the spring. Not so sure now. The trouble is, if all this goes on for even  longer the threat to the cruiselines becomes existential. 

Trying to put a positive slant on this the new strain could actually be good for us. A virus evolves the same as anything else, its sole aim is to replicate, by being more contagious but less lethal a herd immunity can be gained. No point in the virus killing its host. Unfortunately a lot of old or people with underlying health issues cannot fight back. It will be interesting to see when new data comes out over the next few weeks.

[arlowood]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Very true Jean, I think our govt are now performing better than the rest of Europe.

It is interesting to see that on the Worldometer covid website we have now dropped to about 11th on their deaths per million listing, below Italy, Spain and Belgium  with the USA and France only just below us.

I would be very reluctant to place any weight on these comparative death tallies around the world. I don't think there is a standard set of criteria for defining a COVID death that is being applied uniformly on an international basis.

We even had our own government admitting that the total death rates reported in the early part of the pandemic were over stated due to COVID being reported on the death certificate of anyone who had tested positive at any time and subsequently died - even if that death was unrelated. The cynic in me thinks that maybe there was an element of Project Fear in the decision to report in that way.

Now our stats report death within 28 days of a positive COVID test result but there is still some doubt about how reliable those figures are.

I am not saying that we don't have a serious and regrettable death rate but I would stop short of making any comparison internationally

[zap99]

15 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

We are the only council (Waverley) in Surrey that has remained Tier 2 luckily. At least we can meet our family also in Waverley for Xmas day. I don't think we will stay in Tier 2 for long though as the adjoining council to us in Guildford is Tier 4 and I don't think Covid respects council borders.

I hope you get to stay in a lower tier, but fear you are right. There won't be a virus barrier on the A3.

Merry Christmas from infected Woking.

[Snow Hill]

7 hours ago, zap99 said:

They knew about the new strain. The panel researching the transmission rate got their results on Friday and immediately told the government who met with experts on Friday and Saturday. Stammer now's nowt, but the Government were told the seriousness on Friday. They all knew that there was a new strain, but not warned Until Friday. Friday, not Wednesday. Replay Mar and Sky. Friday. That is what I am genuinely saying. Friday.

From Hansard Matt Hancock’s statement to the  House a 3.38 on Monday 14 December in which he confirmed the existence and virulence of new strain of virus.

 

“First, I want to update the House on a new development in the virus itself. Over the past few days, thanks to our world-class genomic capability in the UK, we have identified a new variant of coronavirus, which may be associated with the faster spread in the south-east of England. Initial analysis suggests that this variant is growing faster than the existing variants. We have identified over 1,000 cases with this variant, predominantly in the south of England, although cases have been identified in nearly 60 different local authority areas and numbers are increasing rapidly.”

 

So unless he wasn’t listening Johnson knew about the increasing risk on Wednesday but chose to ignore it when it was easier for him to not answer and call Starmer names again.

 

I won’t put what I think of Johnson, I don’t want to be banned it’s bad enough possibly being distantly related to him. Thank god I have never met him. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Snow Hill

[yorkshirephil]

47 minutes ago, arlowood said:

I would be very reluctant to place any weight on these comparative death tallies around the world. I don't think there is a standard set of criteria for defining a COVID death that is being applied uniformly on an international basis.

We even had our own government admitting that the total death rates reported in the early part of the pandemic were over stated due to COVID being reported on the death certificate of anyone who had tested positive at any time and subsequently died - even if that death was unrelated. The cynic in me thinks that maybe there was an element of Project Fear in the decision to report in that way.

Now our stats report death within 28 days of a positive COVID test result but there is still some doubt about how reliable those figures are.

I am not saying that we don't have a serious and regrettable death rate but I would stop short of making any comparison internationally

It is difficult to judge, some countries seem to be deliberately under counting the death toll, whereas we seemed to be over counting. I never quite got why someone who was run over by a bus on day 27 after testing positive died of covid. I have heard from people allegedly in the know that deaths were allotted to covid to make it easier to deal with the body quicker? how this process skews the figures we may find out when the various enquiries take place. I usually look at the national statistics website and see how many extra deaths have occurred, this is by no means perfect but maybe a better indicator. As with a lot of things covid we will have to wait and see.

[zap99]

47 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

From Hansard Matt Hancock’s statement to the  House a 3.38 on Monday 14 December in which he confirmed the existence and virulence of new strain of virus.

 

“First, I want to update the House on a new development in the virus itself. Over the past few days, thanks to our world-class genomic capability in the UK, we have identified a new variant of coronavirus, which may be associated with the faster spread in the south-east of England. Initial analysis suggests that this variant is growing faster than the existing variants. We have identified over 1,000 cases with this variant, predominantly in the south of England, although cases have been identified in nearly 60 different local authority areas and numbers are increasing rapidly.”

 

So unless he wasn’t listening Johnson knew about the increasing risk on Wednesday but chose to ignore it when it was easier for him to not answer and call Starmer names again.

 

I won’t put what I think of Johnson, I don’t want to be banned it’s bad enough possibly being distantly related to him. Thank god I have never met him. 

We know that. Several experts have said today that although it was known that the new strain existed, the significance of that was only discovered when the data was analysed by their committee in a meeting on Friday from 10.00am finishing at 1.00pm. Once known, the chairman of that expert committee conveyed their findings to government immediately. Cabinet met Friday pm and Saturday am. Press conference at 4.00pm. Saturday.

Edited December 20, 2020 by zap99

[grapau27]

[davecttr]

2 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

If they already have it why are they closing their borders to us I wonder?

Because they don't want even more infection introduced by fleeing Brits

[zap99]

8 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Because they don't want even more infection introduced by fleeing Brits

Interestingly, a good number of the folk interviewed at Paddington were EU nationals going home. Probably zero chance of it not spreading.

[jeanlyon]

Yes agree, but France has now closed the border to any accompanied traffic.  This is a total nightmare.  Port of Dover closed.

[Dermotsgirl]

49 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Yes agree, but France has now closed the border to any accompanied traffic.  This is a total nightmare.  Port of Dover closed.

Yes, this is a very serious situation now.

 

COBRA meeting tomorrow 

[ann141]

3 hours ago, No pager thank you said:

I think that the short answer is whilst Tiers 3 and 4 exist, no cruise company will be able to sail from the UK.  There will simply be too many passengers who will be subject to travel bans and restrictions, even if the on board measures are exclusively effective and a way can be found for some of the crews/ships to be safely started up.

 

UK travellers may also now be subject to longer international travel bans, similar to how the "high risk" countries were treated at the start of the pandemic.  Time will tell on this.

 

The other issue is, and I sincerely hope that it doesn't come it, is the possibility of a Tier 5, or further restriction beyond Tier 4 - affecting schools and/or closure of more workplaces such as construction and manufacturers of non-essential or luxury items.  If this step happens, then cruise ship travel is again a further step away.

 

I don't have any insider knowledge etc, but I will be keeping an eye out for P&O on either the 5th or 12th January... about 10am.😉

I wonder if P and O will be considering pushing back the announcements due(we think!) early Jan whilst large parts of the country are in tiers 3 and 4.

[Eglesbrech]

9 hours ago, ann141 said:

I wonder if P and O will be considering pushing back the announcements due(we think!) early Jan whilst large parts of the country are in tiers 3 and 4.

The whole of Scotland goes into level 4 on Boxing Day until 18 January and our travel ban is in law,  not just a recommendation.

 

P&O have been prudent so far.

[Eglesbrech]

11 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

Yes agree, but France has now closed the border to any accompanied traffic.  This is a total nightmare.  Port of Dover closed.

At least the supermarkets are very well supplied for the moment and unaccompanied freight can still come in.

 

COBRA are meeting today and so are the EU 27 to discuss what they should do about the new variant. France has already acted, the EU may or may not follow.

 

Lots of wasted seafood stuck in trucks.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Eglesbrech
Typo

[dorsetlad]

14 hours ago, Adawn47 said:

Everyone's welcome Zap, but I don't think there'll many members.

Avril

I'm definitely in that club, and I don't have Mystic Met on my team.🎉🎉

[pete14]

12 hours ago, davecttr said:

Because they don't want even more infection introduced by fleeing Brits

Maybe they will punish us by throwing us out of the EU. 

[yorkshirephil]

33 minutes ago, pete14 said:

Maybe they will punish us by throwing us out of the EU. 

Or punish us by making us stay in

[No pager thank you]

Can we all agree to just kick Covid-19 out of the whole EU and apply massive, punitive tariffs and horrendous paperwork instead?  Just saying 😂

 

Feels like we are back to where we started this morning with all the emergency border closures ... Carnival shares down 11pc this morning ... not good at all

[davecttr]

It appears the problem is close to being solved as far as cross channel freight is concerned. The problem is and will be PEOPLE crossing the channel with their trucks. The alternative is already widely used, Drive your artic to Dover. Drop off the trailer or container in the port. The port handlers then load them on the ferry, over in France the process is repeated in reverse. Trucks without trailers might be a problem but I suppose they could disinfect the cabs during the crossing. There will be a reduction in capacity because of the more complex procedures.

 

Are our sprouts grown in Belgium? If so half the country might be happy that they won't arrive 😁

[Snow Hill]

2 hours ago, davecttr said:

It appears the problem is close to being solved as far as cross channel freight is concerned. The problem is and will be PEOPLE crossing the channel with their trucks. The alternative is already widely used, Drive your artic to Dover. Drop off the trailer or container in the port. The port handlers then load them on the ferry, over in France the process is repeated in reverse. Trucks without trailers might be a problem but I suppose they could disinfect the cabs during the crossing. There will be a reduction in capacity because of the more complex procedures.

 

Are our sprouts grown in Belgium? If so half the country might be happy that they won't arrive 😁

Most of our sprouts are grown in Lincolnshire, so will be plenty for Christmas. 😬

[Snow Hill]

On 12/19/2020 at 6:53 PM, Snow Hill said:

My mother in law’s friend who is 89 got a phone call from her GP yesterday evening she is having her 1st jab on Monday. My in-laws will probably get a call early next week based on that as same GP, one 89 the other 87. They live in North Warwickshire which is currently Tier 3

In-laws got a call Sunday evening their jab is tomorrow at local medical centre. 

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, davecttr said:

It appears the problem is close to being solved as far as cross channel freight is concerned. The problem is and will be PEOPLE crossing the channel with their trucks. The alternative is already widely used, Drive your artic to Dover. Drop off the trailer or container in the port. The port handlers then load them on the ferry, over in France the process is repeated in reverse. Trucks without trailers might be a problem but I suppose they could disinfect the cabs during the crossing. There will be a reduction in capacity because of the more complex procedures.

 

Are our sprouts grown in Belgium? If so half the country might be happy that they won't arrive 😁

As you say, unaccompanied containers are already in use, but roro ports like Dover are not geared up for the massive numbers involved. 

You can't re-engineer the freight handling business overnight.