CDC Order re Face Masks

[sidari]

New CDC Order Requires Cruise Passengers to Wear a Mask (cruisehive.com) No mention in this report of how it affects those who are exempt from wearing a mask due to medical issues, or how a Deaf person is meant to Lip read someone wearing a mask! hopefully it will be covered in the actual full CDC report.

Edited January 31, 2021 by sidari

[Dgshooter]

Would this be enforceable outside US territorial waters?

[emmas gran]

31 minutes ago, Dgshooter said:

Would this be enforceable outside US territorial waters?

I hope so !! Hoping cruise lines will make mandatory.

Edited January 31, 2021 by emmas gran
addition

[SirWolf]

2 hours ago, sidari said:

hopefully it will be covered in the actual full CDC report.

Exemptions are listed on page 4 of the CDC Order dated January 29th 2021 , effective February 1st 2021.

Link: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/Mask-Order-CDC_GMTF_01-29-21-p.pdf

[xcell]

This will be interesting to see and enforce -- if cruisers can't even wash their hands before entering the buffet, not sure how this will work.  

 

On that note, I will do that to get back to cruising...

Edited January 31, 2021 by xcell

[rkacruiser]

I received an e-mail ad from Lufthansa this week-end stating that they are requiring masks that are worn to be surgical quality masks and listed three that are acceptable.  

 

Until this virus is reasonably under control, I think one is going to need to wear a mask and it may need to be a better quality one that some now wear if one is going to travel.  

[SirWolf]

@rkacruiser

Hi,

Lufthansa complies with new requirement in Germany to wear FFP2 / N95 / KN95 / Surgical Mask. People in Germany need to wear these specific masks on public transportation and during shopping.

[rkacruiser]

15 minutes ago, SirWolf said:

@rkacruiser

Hi,

Lufthansa complies with new requirement in Germany to wear FFP2 / N95 / KN95 / Surgical Mask. People in Germany need to wear these specific masks on public transportation and during shopping.

 

I appreciate you confirming what I remembered reading.  

 

Coming soon to the airline, cruise line, transportation company closest to you?

[Sunshine3601]

I personally feel my 3 layer cloth mask is better than the skimpy blue surgical masks.   

[paulh84]

14 hours ago, sidari said:

New CDC Order Requires Cruise Passengers to Wear a Mask (cruisehive.com) No mention in this report of how it affects those who are exempt from wearing a mask due to medical issues, or how a Deaf person is meant to Lip read someone wearing a mask! hopefully it will be covered in the actual full CDC report.

Page 4 addresses both issues.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/Mask-Order-CDC_GMTF_01-29-21-p.pdf

 

12 hours ago, Dgshooter said:

Would this be enforceable outside US territorial waters?

The way it is worded it is framed so that in order to embark or disembark at a US port you will follow the mandate. 

[rkacruiser]

23 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I personally feel my 3 layer cloth mask is better than the skimpy blue surgical masks.   

 

No mask quality expert am I, but the requirements that I read on the news that I received from Lufthansa, the masks had specific numbers and not like the types of masks to which you are referencing.  

 

 

[medic143]

On 2/1/2021 at 1:10 AM, Sunshine3601 said:

I personally feel my 3 layer cloth mask is better than the skimpy blue surgical masks.   

The blue masks to which you refer are a lower standard than the N95/FFP2s referred to earlier. The FFP2s are fitted and seal around the mouth and nose unlike the surgical masks that are commonly worn. I have to wear a mix of masks (I work as a paramedic on a COVID testing team) to reflect the role at the time. The FFP2s are much safer but prolonged use is honestly unpleasant.

[cruiser man 60]

Wonder if rules re masks will change once over 50s vaccinated ie the high risk groups, saga cruise as well as some airlines are already saying you will need proof of vaccinations to travel.

Most priority groups in Uk will be done by June but seems very slow in Europe and not sure on USA

[HappyInVan]

IMO, we will be wearing masks for a long time. Should you upgrade your masks?

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/masks-coronavirus-variants-canada-1.5890893

 

 

[KennyFla]

23 hours ago, cruiser man 60 said:

Wonder if rules re masks will change once over 50s vaccinated ie the high risk groups, saga cruise as well as some airlines are already saying you will need proof of vaccinations to travel.

Most priority groups in Uk will be done by June but seems very slow in Europe and not sure on USA

 

If everyone on the ship is vaccinated, and it looks like the Johnson and Johnson vaccine may be the answer for children, why would you need to wear a mask?

Not trying to start a long winded argument, just to see if I am missing something.

Edited February 3, 2021 by KennyFla

[AdoraBelle]

5 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

If everyone on the ship is vaccinated, and it looks like the Johnson and Johnson vaccine may be the answer for children, why would you need to wear a mask?

 

There is still a lack of solid data about whether you can still transmit the virus even if vaccinated.

Vaccinated person who is unknowingly transmitting the virus + 20 % of ship is unvaccinated due to religious waivers or whatever = bad news for cruise line.

We should know more about this soon though. 

 

So you got the vaccine. Can you still infect people? Pfizer is trying to find out.

Edited February 3, 2021 by AdoraBelle

[KennyFla]

26 minutes ago, AdoraBelle said:

 

There is still a lack of solid data about whether you can still transmit the virus even if vaccinated.

Vaccinated person who is unknowingly transmitting the virus + 20 % of ship is unvaccinated due to religious waivers or whatever = bad news for cruise line.

We should know more about this soon though. 

 

So you got the vaccine. Can you still infect people? Pfizer is trying to find out.

 

Agree with you.  You may be able to transmit the virus, although there is debate whether vaccination breaks the line of transmission.  

But if everyone is vaccinated, even if the virus can still be present, no one will get sick.  In fact, you won't know.

Edited February 3, 2021 by KennyFla

[DCGuy64]

11 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

 

If everyone on the ship is vaccinated, and it looks like the Johnson and Johnson vaccine may be the answer for children, why would you need to wear a mask?

Not trying to start a long winded argument, just to see if I am missing something.

Personally, my biggest gripe about life not returning to normal is the incessant reliance on vague language. I'm constantly hearing comments from my friends, from policymakers and from scientists like "we don't know if you can get COVID again after you've recovered from it" or "we don't know if you can still transmit the virus after getting vaccinated" and similar imprecise language. OK, you don't know, so if you don't know, why are all of the restrictions still in place? Here's my take: life has risks in it, and people accept them every day without question. Last night at dinner with some friends of mine, I pointed to the food and drink I was about to consume and said "how do I know this stuff won't poison me?" We know that COVID-19 can be deadly to some people. Emphasis on some, not all. And for those who do get it, the vast majority of them recover, usually fairly quickly (like me and my wife). So even if (and it's a big if, to me anyway) there's a possibility of reinfection and/or transmission, so what? We're still talking about a disease from which 95-99% of the population recovers. What ISN'T an if, or a "well, we don't know" is the ACTUAL damage this pandemic has done to the world economy, the suicide rate, children falling behind in school, domestic violence, mental illness and many other societal factors. Those things aren't imprecise or unknown. They are very much known. I am personally sick and tired of seeing very little done to address the ACTUAL damage the restrictions and lock downs are doing to our world, and yet the rationale for them is built on a foundation of lots of "what if's" and "we don't knows." Obviously, this is just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

[KennyFla]

1 hour ago, AdoraBelle said:

Vaccinated person who is unknowingly transmitting the virus + 20 % of ship is unvaccinated due to religious waivers or whatever = bad news for cruise line.

 

 

Looks like the cruise line may be able to force the 100% vaccination issue:

 

"Schirtzer noted that in the past, government agencies such as the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) have allowed employers to impose mandatory vaccination requirements, such as the flu vaccine, as a condition of employment. Exceptions were required, though, pursuant to the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) for employees who can establish that taking the vaccine poses a health risk, as well as for those who have religious objections to vaccination, unless the exception imposes an undue hardship on the employer.

 

Because cruise lines traveling in U.S. waters are subject to ADA public accommodation requirements, Schirtzer said there is a potential for passengers with medical conditions that increase health risks associated with any COVID-19 vaccine to pursue legal claims if they were precluded from traveling due to mandatory vaccination requirements.

Government agencies such as the CDC and the EEOC have not fought back against COVID-19 testing or quarantine requirements in the workplace, though, and have generally supported those protective actions. Because of higher mortality rates associated with COVID-19 when compared with the flu, Schirtzer said that government agencies might be more willing to find that granting requested exemptions for individual health or religious reasons could create an undue hardship.

 

"I think it is unlikely there would be any kind of retribution or pushback from the government for denying access because of a lack of vaccine," he said.

 

"People try to argue that you can't make me wear a mask in your store," he said. "The response of the courts is to laugh those people out of court. We're in a pandemic, businesses have the right to maintain the safety of their workers and their customers.""

 

Not only do they have the right to maintain safety, they have the obligation to do so.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by KennyFla

[AdoraBelle]

37 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

OK, you don't know, so if you don't know, why are all of the restrictions still in place?

https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/us-daily-deaths
 

That's why.

 

Speaking of imprecise language, 'lockdown' isn't a thing that's happening anywhere in the U.S., so it's probably best to jettison that word. 

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, AdoraBelle said:

https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/us-daily-deaths
 

That's why.

 

Speaking of imprecise language, 'lockdown' isn't a thing that's happening anywhere in the U.S., so it's probably best to jettison that word. 

Thanks for the information, but it doesn't justify the lock downs. And, apologies if this offends you, but I will continue to the use word lock down because it represents what I see as an unreasonable infringement on my right to move about freely.

[HappyInVan]

1 hour ago, AdoraBelle said:

 

There is still a lack of solid data about whether you can still transmit the virus even if vaccinated.
 

 

 

There's no point in explaining things to Kenny. He's got a mental block or a reading deficiency?

[KennyFla]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

There's no point in explaining things to Kenny. He's got a mental block or a reading deficiency?

 

This is what I said a couple of posts previous:

"Agree with you.  You may be able to transmit the virus, although there is debate whether vaccination breaks the line of transmission.  

But if everyone is vaccinated, even if the virus can still be present, no one will get sick.  In fact, you won't know."

[AdoraBelle]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

Thanks for the information, but it doesn't justify the lock downs. And, apologies if this offends you, but I will continue to the use word lock down because it represents what I see as an unreasonable infringement on my right to move about freely.

 

The word 'lockdown' doesn't offend me, it's just unnecessarily dramatic and whiny.

[AdoraBelle]

23 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

But if everyone is vaccinated, even if the virus can still be present, no one will get sick.

 

For what it's worth, if the cruise lines manage 100% vaccination, I agree with you in principle. Or at least, no one will get severely sick. None of the vaccines are 100% effective, but as far as I know, for the most part they all but take serious illness off the table. 

I just don't know if they'll be able to pull it off. I don't know who will win--the cruise lines that don't want to get sued if another Diamond Princess happens (hey everyone--remember Diamond Princess?), or the 18-20% of the country (speaking of the US here) who have decided that science is the enemy, but who want to be allowed to cruise anyway. The 'emotional support animal' crowd will find a way to get vaccine waivers if their wallets scream loud enough. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by AdoraBelle