Shorex bubble?

[sofietucker]

Hey there--so we are on the Riviera on July 30. No this is not a roll call--but we are now in the advance booking window for shorex. Our TA had sent us the pdf some time ago, which now looks wildly optimistic (as does the cruise itself, lol).So based on the now-redacted new rules from Carnival that included severe port restrictions and bubbles, I've been trying to find our about the requirents by O, if any. And a few current roll calls--not mine--specifically mention O limiting tours and port visits to the ship's. My TA doesn't have this info and it doesn't seem to be on their website. Anyone?? This might be a deal breaker for us because there'd be, for instance, nowhere in Mykonos to go except Delos. (In August? Distancing? In town? Onna beach? Hah.) Ditto a number of ports.

[Noxequifans]

You pose some reasonable questions for which there may not be satisfactory answers at this time. The best option is to advise your TA that you may cancel your reservation given the present uncertainty.

[pinotlover]

This is an issue. Ship tours have been released for booking for our November cruise. They are exact duplicates of the tours offered on the cancelled 2020 cruise.

 

Even though we are in port 8-9 hours in a couple of the ports, Oceania is, as often typical, only offering a couple 3-4 hr shorex. If mandated to ship tours only, we’ll possibly be in ports with lots to see, but restricted to the ship most of the day.

 

For me, I wonder what happens when the country visited doesn’t mandate ship only tours, but Oceania, wanting to maximize profits with its outrageously expensive shore tours, does?

 

 

[LHT28]

Even if the cruise is  a go  witch is unlikely  considering the World situation   there will be  restrictions  for  several months after start up

If Carnival is restricting  tour options  why would  a premium line  not do the same to protect it's passengers ?

If you want to take a chance the cruise will be going ahead then choose your ship's tours  now & hope for the best

Otherwise cancel the cruise  now  as you will be restricted  in July IF the ship sails

JMO

[sofietucker]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

This is an issue. Ship tours have been released for booking for our November cruise. They are exact duplicates of the tours offered on the cancelled 2020 cruise.

 

Even though we are in port 8-9 hours in a couple of the ports, Oceania is, as often typical, only offering a couple 3-4 hr shorex. If mandated to ship tours only, we’ll possibly be in ports with lots to see, but restricted to the ship most of the day.

 

For me, I wonder what happens when the country visited doesn’t mandate ship only tours, but Oceania, wanting to maximize profits with its outrageously expensive shore tours, does?

 

 

That's an excellent question. We chose our cruise for the unusual itinerary--Antalya and Alanya, among others--and do not wish to rush back to the ship. We can survive missing lunch and would far rather be out exploring.

[LHT28]

1 minute ago, sofietucker said:

That's an excellent question. We chose our cruise for the unusual itinerary--Antalya and Alanya, among others--and do not wish to rush back to the ship. We can survive missing lunch and would far rather be out exploring.

Take  a land vacation

IF the ship sails  you will be restricted to ship's tours

[sofietucker]

41 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Even if the cruise is  a go  witch is unlikely  considering the World situation   there will be  restrictions  for  several months after start up

If Carnival is restricting  tour options  why would  a premium line  not do the same to protect it's passengers ?

If you want to take a chance the cruise will be going ahead then choose your ship's tours  now & hope for the best

Otherwise cancel the cruise  now  as you will be restricted  in July IF the ship sails

JMO

Exactly... Turkey is still in red "Do Not Travel" status according to the state dept.Even Greece is marked more iffy than the rest of Europe--which is now struggling with the variants...  I have tried to see how things are with the MSC Grandiosa, currently cruising Italy and Malta, but only have found a webcam from day 1, no reports. Last year they had insituted strict bubbles (was it Costa as well? I forget; 3 ships barred returning pax who broke the rules).

Edited February 9, 2021 by sofietucker

[sofietucker]

33 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Take  a land vacation

IF the ship sails  you will be restricted to ship's tours

Yeah... but not to Victoria as previously planned! Probably nor to Spain as planned for this Sept; even if they are back up & running, the infrastructure in smaller inland cities will likely take a long time to bounce back...  I guess we could pivot to New Mexico; they seem to be pretty well vaccinated already. Or Alaska--it will be EMPTY, lol!

[LHT28]

5 minutes ago, sofietucker said:

Exactly... Turkey is still in red "Do Not Travel" status according to the state dept.Even Greece is marked more iffy than the rest of Eurpoe--which is now struggling with the variants...  I have tried to see how things are with the MSC Grandiosa, currently cruising Italy and Malta, but only have found a webcam from day 1, no reports. Last year they had insituted strict bubbles (was it Costa as well? I forget; 3 ships barred returning pax who broke the rules).

Crystal ball moment

What are you expecting  IF the ship sails   considering the current situation?

 

[sofietucker]

31 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Crystal ball moment

What are you expecting  IF the ship sail   considering the current situation?

 

Well just to be proactive, we chose shorex in all 9 ports. But really don't care for a few--they offer only a single 4-hour option (no smaller-guest versions) in Mitilini, which is full of castles & ruins--and we are there all day. Plus multiply that by 1250 pax; that's many busloads all going to the same monastery, etc. So... Yeah, we will be cancelling. Cross our fingers for Dec in the Caribbean.

[sofietucker]

Done. Thanks everyone for your input. Now, off to take advantage of the President's sale for next spring!

[pinotlover]

56 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Crystal ball moment

What are you expecting  IF the ship sails   considering the current situation?

 

The actual question most of us ponder is how far out do we consider “ the current situation “. Do we expect the “ current situation “ to be the same in November 21? How about February 22? If we look out the window today and watch it snow, do we project the current situation until August? 
 

IMO, things are evolving and the rate of change will accelerate. I’m not prepared to project the “ current situation “ in general past 1July in general, and 1 Nov 21 for sailing.

[Tranquility Base]

2 hours ago, pinotlover said:

For me, I wonder what happens when the country visited doesn’t mandate ship only tours, but Oceania, wanting to maximize profits with its outrageously expensive shore tours, does?

I'm trying to imagine ship's "bubble" tours of the main sites in places such as Istanbul, Luxor and Petra.

We all know how likely that is.

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, Tranquility Base said:

I'm trying to imagine ship's "bubble" tours of the main sites in places such as Istanbul, Luxor and Petra.

We all know how likely that is.

If you read the ship’s tour of Petra and Viator’s tour of Petra, they are exactly the same. I’m guessing, since neither actually run tours but utilize 3rd Parties, they are just copying the brochures of the company actually running the tour(s). Major difference between the two is Oceania’s price is $369 each, Viator is $179. Viator also will give a group discount if you put together a roll call group. Makes you wonder what you’d pay if you could find the company actually running the tour!

 

That tour obviously isn’t included in the O’Life package! 🤣

[Redtravel]

Booked on summer 2021 Med cruise. I sent email to O asking the same questions. Got a vague answer.   Since I think that 2021 cruises will be canceled, I haven't put much thought into looking at shore options.  I did book the included O life tours.  However, if O insists that we must be on an O excursion to get off the ship, we will cancel.  While it may be safer, it is a strong indicator of safety problems that could exist.  Not being one who likes taking risks, I'd cancel and stay home.

[Tranquility Base]

51 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

If you read the ship’s tour of Petra and Viator’s tour of Petra, they are exactly the same.

My point was, it's not possible to operate a tour "bubble" at places such as Petra.

Unless every other land based tourist was forced to do the same, which, in my opinion, won't happen.

It is a free range roaming location, as is Luxor.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Tranquility Base

[pinotlover]

4 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

My point was, it's not possible to operate a tour "bubble" at places such as Petra.

Unless every other land based tourist was forced to do the same, which, in my opinion, won't happen.

It is a free ranch roaming location, as is Luxor.

I understand your point. This summer, we went to a few what were “ free ranch roaming “ locations, that had become capacity controlled with directional signage, and guards ensuring physical distancing. What was, isn’t currently. 

[LHT28]

12 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

Booked on summer 2021 Med cruise. I sent email to O asking the same questions. Got a vague answer.   Since I think that 2021 cruises will be canceled, I haven't put much thought into looking at shore options.  I did book the included O life tours.  However, if O insists that we must be on an O excursion to get off the ship, we will cancel.  While it may be safer, it is a strong indicator of safety problems that could exist.  Not being one who likes taking risks, I'd cancel and stay home.

Forgive me   I do mean to be rude

You keep banging on about  not having to do ship's tours

IF the ship sails  this summer  you will be doing ship's tours 

so cancel now & quit moaning about  it 🙄

[IWantToLiveOverTheSea]

I'm hoping the particular cruise mentioned goes, as I'm booked on it.  But at this point, who knows?  I like to roam on my own on a cruise, but if it comes down to cancelling, going but paying a lot for excursions, or staying on the ship, I'll go with #2. 

 

I've noticed that Oceania is currently sending a lot of promotional materials, and the cruises they're promoting start July 1.  That makes me hopeful that this cruise might go.  I've also been looking at how a few categories are filling up.  It seems like they're NOT trying to sell every room, which of course is understandable and prudent.  I can't imagine they'll fill that whole big ship (Riviera), even if they're allowed to or want to. Cruising on a half-full ship would be absolutely fine with me!!

 

 

[pinotlover]

I believe that FDR stated in one of his interviews with CC that they are currently only booking to 60% capacity.

 

So waitlisted cruises are 60% full. Non waitlisted even less.

 

When capacity controls are lifted by region, there’ll be a lot of cabins for sale.

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, pinotlover said:

I believe that FDR stated in one of his interviews with CC that they are currently only booking to 60% capacity.

 

So waitlisted cruises are 60% full. Non waitlisted even less.

 

When capacity controls are lifted by region, there’ll be a lot of cabins for sale.

That isn't stopping Oceania from saying that the 2023 world cruise sold out in one day:

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5873/

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/media/2021/OCEANIA+CRUISES’+2023+180-DAY+WORLD+CRUISE+SELLS+OUT+IN+A+SINGLE+DAY+Single-Day+Sellout+Underscores+Affluent+Consumers’+Appetite+for+Global+Travel/

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by njhorseman

[pinotlover]

59 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

That isn't stopping Oceania from saying that the 2023 world cruise sold out in one day:

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5873/

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/media/2021/OCEANIA+CRUISES’+2023+180-DAY+WORLD+CRUISE+SELLS+OUT+IN+A+SINGLE+DAY+Single-Day+Sellout+Underscores+Affluent+Consumers’+Appetite+for+Global+Travel/

 

I was just currently defining the new definition of sold out. What’s your point?

 

If the capacity controls are lifted and the definition changes in a year, then cabins will be for sale. If not, they are sold out. It’s all marketing, especially for the shareholders.

 

Absolutely nowhere in those well written pieces do they define sold out or the passenger count that produces “ sold out”. Do you believe 684 is the number?

Edited February 10, 2021 by pinotlover

[njhorseman]

56 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

I was just currently defining the new definition of sold out. What’s your point?

 

If the capacity controls are lifted and the definition changes in a year, then cabins will be for sale. If not, they are sold out. It’s all marketing, especially for the shareholders.

 

Absolutely nowhere in those well written pieces do they define sold out or the passenger count that produces “ sold out”. Do you believe 684 is the number?

How many people who are not insiders with intimate knowledge of the cruise industry would know that "sold out" doesn't mean sold out in the usual sense, but rather 60% of capacity ? I'll tell you how many...none. My point is that the press release as worded deceives the media that publish it, and those that read the resulting media reports, which includes stockholders and the public at large. It's deception by omission of a key fact.

[bob brown]

The "facts" as I see it....

On my 2019 ATW, there were approximately 330 ATW passengers on board, making up more than half the ships 684 passenger capacity, due to several 'solo' cruiser's.

This was a nice increase from the previous ATW's, and the count for the next couple was trending upward from there.

So with the 2020 aborted enroute, the 2021 also canceled, and the 2022 if it goes, already long sold out, it doesn't seem like it would take much of a stretch for pent up demand to quickly fill the 2023, up to full capacity, if offered...

[KirkNC]

Right now when you book a cruise you are buying a pig in a poke as we don’t know what Covid protocols will be in place.