Air booking nightmare

[Arizona Wildcat]

21 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

Another part of the issue---when we booked, our price through choice air was only $928 pp (a little disappointing because for our original 2020 cruises, before the pandemic and lift-and-shift, we had flights for only $720 pp!)...but, if we were to cancel and re-book now, the prices I am seeing start at around $1250-1300 pp...

 

I'm fairly sure this will get worked out and we'll get either the KLM option via Amsterdam (our next choice) or, perhaps more likely, Delta might want to allow us on the option via Atlanta because it's all Delta flights and not a partner.  I just don't like the uncertainty and the 3-4 business day wait...and the idea that this might not be the last change...

Agree not the last change.  Many countries pretty much closed and testing requirements difficult to impossible.  Hope your cruises happen, but I would not seriously be thinking flight schedules will mean much until April.  Today you can get prices but the trade off is often crazy timing.

For example - 2 years ago Zurich to Munich (about a 2 hour DRIVE or bus) was almost $300 one way non-stop, but $128 via either Moscow or Helsinki with about 15 to 22 hours.

Just wait it our and make sure refundable as many things will not be open in July.

[Bruin Steve]

I get it that many of you don't think any cruises will be happening by this summer...

 

However, part of my premise was that none of us really know for sure.  Currently, the cruises ARE on the schedule.  Celebrity is not quite willing to cancel.  Flights are still on the schedule...so, though the airlines may alter their schedule to fit with their projections, the are also not just packing it in indefinitely.  Most businesses must operate under the assumption that they will be operating 4-5 months from now...mostly, because, like me, they don't know...So, you plan as if you are going forward.

 

Anything can happen.  Vaccinations could pick up, cases and deaths could go down.  Travel operators could open but restrict participation to people with proof of vaccination...or other restrictions...

 

Cruise lines and airlines and hotels and everyone else in the tourist industry WANT to be operating ASAP...Governments may not be cooperating for now, but those businesses also have lobbyists that pressure all of those governments...and many have great influence...All of those destination ports have economies that depend a lot on tourism.  So, I would not take it for granted that ANY of this will be closed until the Pandemic has completely disappeared.

 

For me, I really don't believe in taking major risks...HOWEVER, being fully vaccinated, I feel that my personal risks have been minimized...So, if the cruise lines and airlines operate, I am prepared to go...

 

For me, it makes sense to keep my reservations.  Canceling them would be far easier than reconstituting them if things go back on...AND, it makes sense to continue to insure that any reservation is the best possible...even if it, too, may have to be changed.  It is far easier to keep the best possible current plan in place and alter it later if a better deal arises than to cement myself into a bad plan and then wait until things improve or are canceled.  If I accept a 2-stop flight and things do proceed in a way as to allow the cruise, I might get stuck with that 2-stop flight.  It may not be possible 3-4 months from now to move it to a better set of flights.  The airline may not allow it or the better flights could fill up in the meanwhile.

 

So, whether my cruise looks to be a 100% go...or a 50/50...or even a 10/90 or worse, as long as it possibly may be on, it is to my benefit to make sure all of my arrangements are acceptable.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Bruin Steve

[kwokpot]

5 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

 

For me, I really don't believe in taking major risks...HOWEVER, being fully vaccinated, I feel that my personal risks have been minimized...So, if the cruise lines and airlines operate, I am prepared to go...

 

 

This is not necessarily directed at you but I wanted to say that just because people may think that a particular cruise won't sail doesn't mean that that person is afraid to travel. That seems to be a common response to some that are more pragmatic and see what the week to week situation is and  are making informed decisions based on all the available facts as opposed to just being optimistic. 

 

I'm receiving my second vaccine shot tomorrow and I just booked a four night getaway in Miami Beach for March and will be planning a trip to Vegas and Palm Springs in May. I had four cruises planned for this year including a cruise to Iceland from England and only one remains uncanceled (9 nt Canada/NE Cruise Sept. 30th on the Freedom). But realistically I don't see cruises starting up until September(More likely October,November) at the earliest and that's just for short cruises from Florida. Am I AFRAID to travel? No. Will I travel shortly? Hell yes,literally three weeks after my last vaccine shot. But do I think there's going to be International cruises for Americans this summer? Nope.  

 

Remember, just because cruises aren't sailing doesn't mean you can't go away on vacation and enjoy yourself. Two thirds of Americans have never been on a cruise vacation.  

Edited February 23, 2021 by kwokpot

[Bruin Steve]

1 hour ago, kwokpot said:

This is not necessarily directed at you but I wanted to say that just because people may think that a particular cruise won't sail doesn't mean that that person is afraid to travel. That seems to be a common response to some that are more pragmatic and see what the week to week situation is and  are making informed decisions based on all the available facts as opposed to just being optimistic. 

 

 

I do not think that those people claiming there will be no cruises are merely afraid to travel.  Nor am I, in hoping the cruises will sail, being merely optimistic.

 

There are a lot of different forces that have bearing on all of this. 

 

First, there are the cruise lines themselves...and I believe they fully want to be operating again as soon as possible.  Why?  Because that's how they stay in business and have jobs and make money...

 

Second, there are the various ports and countries to which they sail.  And they all have different concerns at play...and governments with different priorities.  Some, Canada, for example, are extremely cautious and are not likely to lead the vanguard in reopening.  Some other countries have great pressure from their tourism industries.  The US has the CDC issuing "no sail" orders--but, remember, their jurisdiction goes no farther than US ports.  They have no jurisdiction over foreign flagged ship (which they all are) cruising only to and from foreign ports--like a Med cruise for example.  So, Celebrity's Apex cruises really depend on whether Spain, Italy and France decide to allow cruises.

 

And, third, we have the prospective passengers and their, and the crew's safety...if the cruise lines can obtain enough vaccine to protect their crews and if enough prospective passengers can be vaccinated, then it comes down to economics...Assume Celebrity canceled the Europe season for two ships a while ago but left two ships on the schedule for the Med because they think they will be able to sail, that enough passengers and crew will be vaccinated to make it worth their while to operate two ships, but maybe not four...and that they will be allowed to sail...

 

Going back to the countries involved, it seems they expect to get approval...or at least hope to...Likewise, it seems they have given up on Canada and are looking at ways to get around that by some sort of waiver on US law, perhaps--as evidenced by a letter they sent to Alaska cruise passengers.  I suspect that, likewise, if any of the European countries involved don't allow cruise ships but others do, that the itineraries will be somewhat drastically altered...Say Spain and Italy allow cruise ships but France doesn't, I can see my Apex cruise skipping the two French ports, either replacing them with an additional Spanish or Italian port or making them at sea days...

 

And, yes, I can also envision the cruises not happening at all, if everything doesn't work out...However--and this is based on all of the above, not just mere optimism...I think it is possible enough that I don't have to just write off my planning just yet...I don't lose anything but my time...and, right now, I have plenty of time to spare...

 

If the cruises don't happen but other options are available, I don't think I will have much trouble pivoting to other opportunities... 

[Bruin Steve]

Okay...so it’s just a minor nightmare...though similar things may happen often, it’s still not an easy situation to deal with due to the bureaucracy involved and difficulty getting it fixed.

 

Just to add one small item here:  Some have suggested calling Delta directly rather than Celebrity Choice Air and avoiding that several business day (if at all) wait.  Let me address that.  When one calls Delta of late, one gets a recorded voice asking that, if your problem isn’t regarding a flight in the next seven days, that you consider calling back just prior to your flight.  It then goes on to tell you...the first time I called, that the wait time is approximately three hours.  I hung up, then tried calling during the wee early hours...and that wait time was three hours and thirty-five minutes!  I tried the “change reservations” link on Delta.com...but there it told me I could not use the link because of one of about eight or ten reasons, one of which looked to apply to bookings made through third parties—which was written so it looked like it applied to those made through Choice Air...

 

So, basically, it looks to be something that might be easily fixed...but no...

[Ashland]

2 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

Okay...so it’s just a minor nightmare...though similar things may happen often, it’s still not an easy situation to deal with due to the bureaucracy involved and difficulty getting it fixed.

 

Just to add one small item here:  Some have suggested calling Delta directly rather than Celebrity Choice Air and avoiding that several business day (if at all) wait.  Let me address that.  When one calls Delta of late, one gets a recorded voice asking that, if your problem isn’t regarding a flight in the next seven days, that you consider calling back just prior to your flight.  It then goes on to tell you...the first time I called, that the wait time is approximately three hours.  I hung up, then tried calling during the wee early hours...and that wait time was three hours and thirty-five minutes!  I tried the “change reservations” link on Delta.com...but there it told me I could not use the link because of one of about eight or ten reasons, one of which looked to apply to bookings made through third parties—which was written so it looked like it applied to those made through Choice Air...

 

So, basically, it looks to be something that might be easily fixed...but no...

What alternative have you found on the DL website? 

If you see something that might work...call Air By Celebrity give them the details and have them cancel what you're holding and rebook what you want.

 

I've called them many times for a reprice to my held flights . Best of luck...getting what you want and this cruise even sailing.

[Bruin Steve]

6 minutes ago, Ashland said:

What alternative have you found on the DL website? 

If you see something that might work...call Air By Celebrity give them the details and have them cancel what you're holding and rebook what you want.

 

I've called them many times for a reprice to my held flights . Best of luck...getting what you want and this cruise even sailing.

There are two decent (but not quite as good times as what I had) workable options on the Choice Air AND Delta sites:  A one stop via Amsterdam on Delta associate KLM...and a one-stop on Delta via Atlanta...Problem is that our booking fare WAS $920 pp...Currently, via Choice Air (which is slightly better priced than direct on Delta.com), it's $1251 pp...So, canceling and booking a new reservation would cost us an additional $662...

[Arizona Wildcat]

15 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

I do not think that those people claiming there will be no cruises are merely afraid to travel.  Nor am I, in hoping the cruises will sail, being merely optimistic.

 

There are a lot of different forces that have bearing on all of this. 

 

First, there are the cruise lines themselves...and I believe they fully want to be operating again as soon as possible.  Why?  Because that's how they stay in business and have jobs and make money...

 

Second, there are the various ports and countries to which they sail.  And they all have different concerns at play...and governments with different priorities.  Some, Canada, for example, are extremely cautious and are not likely to lead the vanguard in reopening.  Some other countries have great pressure from their tourism industries.  The US has the CDC issuing "no sail" orders--but, remember, their jurisdiction goes no farther than US ports.  They have no jurisdiction over foreign flagged ship (which they all are) cruising only to and from foreign ports--like a Med cruise for example.  So, Celebrity's Apex cruises really depend on whether Spain, Italy and France decide to allow cruises.

 

And, third, we have the prospective passengers and their, and the crew's safety...if the cruise lines can obtain enough vaccine to protect their crews and if enough prospective passengers can be vaccinated, then it comes down to economics...Assume Celebrity canceled the Europe season for two ships a while ago but left two ships on the schedule for the Med because they think they will be able to sail, that enough passengers and crew will be vaccinated to make it worth their while to operate two ships, but maybe not four...and that they will be allowed to sail...

 

Going back to the countries involved, it seems they expect to get approval...or at least hope to...Likewise, it seems they have given up on Canada and are looking at ways to get around that by some sort of waiver on US law, perhaps--as evidenced by a letter they sent to Alaska cruise passengers.  I suspect that, likewise, if any of the European countries involved don't allow cruise ships but others do, that the itineraries will be somewhat drastically altered...Say Spain and Italy allow cruise ships but France doesn't, I can see my Apex cruise skipping the two French ports, either replacing them with an additional Spanish or Italian port or making them at sea days...

 

And, yes, I can also envision the cruises not happening at all, if everything doesn't work out...However--and this is based on all of the above, not just mere optimism...I think it is possible enough that I don't have to just write off my planning just yet...I don't lose anything but my time...and, right now, I have plenty of time to spare...

 

If the cruises don't happen but other options are available, I don't think I will have much trouble pivoting to other opportunities... 

A question.  Is Celebrity's putting Canada involved cruises on hold an indication that they think Alaska can get CDC approval for say August cruises?  Or is it a ploy to keep a few hundred million in deposits for another 4 or 5 months?  The amount of deposits and their importance to RCI was mentioned several times in the conference call.

FWIW - I would happily cruise this summer.  My DW who deals with several health conditions said next year.  I think I am a realist in that there are many parts to resuming cruising.  Most of those are either what is acceptable to individuals as a cruising experience or the situation as to air travel.and foreign port openings.

[Ashland]

2 minutes ago, Bruin Steve said:

There are two decent (but not quite as good times as what I had) workable options on the Choice Air AND Delta sites:  A one stop via Amsterdam on Delta associate KLM...and a one-stop on Delta via Atlanta...Problem is that our booking fare WAS $920 pp...Currently, via Choice Air (which is slightly better priced than direct on Delta.com), it's $1251 pp...So, canceling and booking a new reservation would cost us an additional $662...

Then it may not get any better (could even get worse) but of course keep checking daily. I would probably opt for the DL (KLM). KLM via AMS a better product.

 

Sorry this might end up costing a bit more than you planned but change is what we must be flexible about in these times of travel if we opt to.

 

Bottom line...keep what you have and keep checking or make the change to your best alternative and also keep checking right up to final payment. Good luck !!

 

 

 

[bEwAbG]

I keep reading your posts but failing to see where the difficulty comes in.  A nightmare suggests something out of the ordinary is happening.  As many people have noted, airlines change flight schedules all the time, especially if the flight is months away.  Add in the current state of air travel worldwide (issues that were known to you when you booked last August), and this is not anything that should have been unexpected.  From everything you've put forward, this is a minor annoyance, at best.  

[neilrr]

Hi Everyone:  I will throw in my 2 1/2 cents...😁 We have a couple of larger FCC's and some small ones. We are avid cruisers -- (40+) choosing to wait until we can see some clarity.  No point in having additional stress and aggravation - lifting and shifting, booking and cancelling. 😪

 

Also, though we may be vaccinated -- What about the crew? What about the countries we would visit? Will they be open for tourists? Right now the world is basically closed. Personally, I don't see the summer in the Med happening. We really miss it, but will wait until things look better.  An old business saying -- I like to be on the leading edge; not the bleeding edge...

 

Everyone stay safe...

 

Happy Sailing to All - Hope we will be sailing again soon...😄    

[Bruin Steve]

I can appreciate where many people are in "wait and see" mode...and in no hurry to deal with anything right now...If you have no current reservations or just have FCCs, there really is no rush...and why hurry--since current prices all seem very high anyway, so why commit to a high price for a cruise that may not happen?

 

But, we are not all in the same situation...

 

We had four cruises booked all well before Covid hit...

For one of them, a Transpacific, we merely had a deposit of $900 posted...and now we have an FCC for 125% instead...and we are not rushing to do anything with that...and likely just apply it towards the other one we had booked with it--A 14 night Japan cruise that has now been lifted and shifted to March 2022--which we think will certainly take place...

 

But, the flights I'm concerned with here are for our other two cruises...

Originally, we had back-to-back cruises booked for the Med in July 2020...And, since we booked VERY early, we had excellent deals on BOTH.  These were both PAID IN FULL at the time they were canceled...so we didn't get our money back...or take FCC...We also had our RT airfare paid for--$720 pp--an outstanding fare...but THAT part was not movable, so all we got there was our money back dollar for dollar...same with all of the extras we pre-paid for--shore excursions, specialty restaurants, etc.  BUT, because of the "nonrefundable deposit" and the rules in effect at the time of the cancelation, the lift and shift was the solution which made the most sense.

 

We were able to lift and shift the two 2020 cruises into two nonconsecutive 2021 cruises, one on Apex, the second on Infinity...which was a difficult puzzle to figure out--how to get two cruises that were at least close to consecutive without merely repeating the same ports in reverse staying on the same ship...and without traveling clear across Europe between cruises.  So, we ended up with this:  two different itineraries on two different ships with a two day gap in Civitavecchia between the two.

 

It will be nice if these two actually work out and sail.  We've already paid around $8,000...and they've had our money for about a year already.  If we had been able to have gotten a full refund, reconstituting those two cruises in a new booking would have cost us an additional $3-4,000+...and who knows what the prices will be NEXT year?  r if it will even be possible to work out a similar itinerary?  

 

At this point, if this summer is canceled, I'd just as well want to leave the bookings in place and do a lift-and-shift to 14 nights of cruising in 2022...but fear having to fight with Celebrity over being able to do that.  It really wouldn't be fair for them to take thousands from us in early 2020, keep it for over a year and then tell us we get nothing for it...and can't get a deal even close to the one we paid for.  But, OTOH, Celebrity makes its own rules...and they aren't necessarily logical or fair...

 

So, this air reservation thing is only a small part of a much larger frustration.

 

BTW, I just got my confirmation...

We WERE able to get our flights moved to the LAX-Amsterdam-Barcelona configuration...

IF the cruises actually happen (as I hope--though, as I stated in my original post, we don't yet know), then I am okay with this...These flights leave LA and get us into Barcelona a little later...But, OTOH, I'd rather be on KLM than Delta...We've actually taken this exact LAX-Amsterdam flight twice in the last 3 or 4 years.  And, since LAX to Amsterdam is one of KLM's mainstays, I think they are a lot less likely to cancel it than any of the purely Delta configurations...

[Host Jazzbeau]

I sympathize with your situation.  It's one thing when a randomly chosen option gets changed, but when you have carefully planned for a particular outcome it is quite galling to have it pulled out from under you – especially if you suspect [and I agree with your reasoning] that the poor result was because of sloppy work on the other end.  This is why I generally avoid booking air through the cruise line – even the tempting 'included air' options.  After too many airline 'nightmares' – yes, I will use that term too! – I now pay whatever it takes to fly non-stop in Premium Economy, booked and paid for direct with the airline.  Even then I'm not protected, but I am in control. 

 

Edited to add:  Just saw that you were posting as I was typing.  Glad that  you got this sorted to your satisfaction.

[kwokpot]

https://disneycruiselineblog.com/2021/02/disney-cruise-line-cancels-disney-magic-cruises-through-august-10-2021/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDisneyCruiseLineBlog+(The+Disney+Cruise+Line+Blog)

[Ride-The-Waves]

You haven't lived until the airline reroutes your one-stop TPA-YQB into 4-legs (3 stops) with one departing before the connection arrives.  

 

On the other hand cruise air has been helpful AND less expensive in some cases.  Once we were routed via ATL from TPA through LAX to SYD with a 30 minute connection in ATL.  Out of TPA in the Summer during thunderstorm season?  No way.  Able to work out an acceptable routing from MCO AND save $800 (Business) each for the R/T working with Princess Air.  

[sanger727]

OP. I’m glad it worked out for you. I can understand and appreciate your plan to leave your trip in place just in case. What was disconcerting about your first post is that you were clearly stressed and frustrated about potentially waiting several days to hear back about the change. (You didn’t title this post as a ‘nightmare’). Delta guarantees you the option of being able to change your flight when they make a change of over 60 minutes. And there’s every possibility that this new flight will change again on your before your trip. Even in ‘normal’ times I don’t think I’ve ever had a delta flight change less than 3 times. So that’s why people were stressing the likelihood of the trip not happening. You were letting yourself get stressed over a flight change that delta was going to fix, that will probably still not be your final flight, for a trip that there’s a strong possibility won’t happen. I wish you luck. 

[kwokpot]

On 2/22/2021 at 1:53 AM, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

Americans will not be cruising in Europe in 2021 in my opinion. Some of the lines may operate a ship or 2 for EU/UK residents only.  We’ll be lucky to even see limited cruise departures from US ports by July. 

You nailed it!