New CDC guidance

[Jim Avery]

1 hour ago, rbslos18 said:

Will you both be wearing masks and socially distancing 😉

Oh and get tested before you meet.

Nope.  Won't be sailing 4+ months if those are the rules.  You could have our cabin.

[rbslos18]

36 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

Nope.  Won't be sailing 4+ months if those are the rules.  You could have our cabin.

Sorry. We are still working! I will be surprised if Viking does not require proof of vaccination and if we have to wear masks onboard. I'm not thrilled about herd immunity on a ship!

[Porcupine 52]

4 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

Nope.  Won't be sailing 4+ months if those are the rules.  You could have our cabin.

I thought the rules in Maui when we went in Jan. would be a very big problem.  It really wasn't and trust me Hawaii is very strict... as you know.  I can't think of a single thing we wanted to do that we couldn't.  Yes some stuff was shut down but most businesses were so happy to see tourist.  We wore a mask when outside.  We had a temp. check about 20 times.  We had to have a test before we came ( even though we all had the vaccine).

I really don't think the rules will bother us on a cruise ship.  In some ways people are thrilled to have you back on board again.

 

JMHO

[ChocolateCoop]

On 3/9/2021 at 9:03 PM, Heidi13 said:

 

It could be a mute point, as if a number of countries introduce COVID vaccine requirements, cruise lines will have no option, other than changing itineraries.

You may have a point.  I guess I'd like to see Viking (and other cruise lines) be the one(s) to get out front on requiring vaccines.

[Cienfuegos]

There are undoubtedly many destinations starving for visitors. I hope the y and the cruise lines are able to establish protocols which protect local residents, and cruise passengers / staff.

[OnTheJourney]

Here's another facet to all this- the uncertainty of how long the vaccine is effective. I'm reading some things that suggest continued production of antibodies for at least 3 months, but a possible decline after that (especially in the more elderly). Nothing hard and fast on any of this since it's all too new. However, IF (and I know it's a somewhat pessimistic 'if'), you have a mix of passengers who, while having showed proof of vaccination prior to boarding got their shots only a few weeks before the cruise, and other follks who got theirs 6-12 months ago, who knows if some of those are possibly subject to reinfection and thus spread. One of the big elephants in the room is also all the variables associated with going ashore. Cruise pax and crew might well be a safe microcosm but not necessarily the same situation once port exposure is thrown into the mix.

 

I still say cruising should resume with NO ports - best chance to test any and all onboard protocols. Otherwise, you're throwing too many variables into the mix especially if cases start to show up. Plus, no cruising till 2022 - buying additional time to learn more about the (hopefully) longer term efficacy of these vaccines. If it is determined that boosters are need at fairly frequent intervals, now you've got not just this initial but continuing global immunization tasks to deal with, although it all SHOULD start to go easier as these vaccines continue to be mass produced along with increased availabitliy.. So then does a cruise line require proof of boosters?  This thing can drive you crazy thinking about it. In the meantime, our (travel) lives are on hold, and it's starting to get old....

Edited March 14, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[Heidi13]

52 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

If it is determined that boosters are need at fairly frequent intervals, now you've got not just this initial but continuing global immunization tasks to deal with, although it all SHOULD start to go easier as these vaccines continue to be mass produced along with increased availabitliy.. So then does a cruise line require proof of boosters?  This thing can drive you crazy thinking about it. In the meantime, our (travel) lives are on hold, and it's starting to get old....

 

Based on the days when we required multiple vaccinations to work at sea, they all had booster requirements at various intervals - 6 months, 12 months, 3 yrs & 10 yrs. Therefore, if they identify COVID boosters are required, best guess is they will determine a frequency and if current vaccination is mandatory, a booster with documented proof will be required.

 

In my day the proof consisted of the WHO health record book (yellow book), but with counterfitters rampant these days, I suspect it will require some form of electronic Govt authorised record.

[Porcupine 52]

1 hour ago, OnTheJourney said:

Here's another facet to all this- the uncertainty of how long the vaccine is effective. I'm reading some things that suggest continued production of antibodies for at least 3 months, but a possible decline after that (especially in the more elderly). Nothing hard and fast on any of this since it's all too new. However, IF (and I know it's a somewhat pessimistic 'if'), you have a mix of passengers who, while having showed proof of vaccination prior to boarding got their shots only a few weeks before the cruise, and other follks who got theirs 6-12 months ago, who knows if some of those are possibly subject to reinfection and thus spread. One of the big elephants in the room is also all the variables associated with going ashore. Cruise pax and crew might well be a safe microcosm but not necessarily the same situation once port exposure is thrown into the mix.

 

I still say cruising should resume with NO ports - best chance to test any and all onboard protocols. Otherwise, you're throwing too many variables into the mix especially if cases start to show up. Plus, no cruising till 2022 - buying additional time to learn more about the (hopefully) longer term efficacy of these vaccines. If it is determined that boosters are need at fairly frequent intervals, now you've got not just this initial but continuing global immunization tasks to deal with, although it all SHOULD start to go easier as these vaccines continue to be mass produced along with increased availabitliy.. So then does a cruise line require proof of boosters?  This thing can drive you crazy thinking about it. In the meantime, our (travel) lives are on hold, and it's starting to get old....

If there is any good news my vaccine testing folks (Pfizer) told me that since I am 6 plus months now of having the vaccine they wanted me in the booster study if my antibodies have drop after the last blood test.  They said they would call within a week.  That was 3 weeks ago now.

[Cruise Guy76]

On 3/10/2021 at 2:45 PM, Cruising in my mind said:

The HEALTH and SAFETY Video provided by the Chairman does in fact indicate that the test lab on the ships are saliva tests.  He also states that the sample will be provided daily prior to any contact with anyone outside of your stateroom for the day and your results will be provided in a timely manner.  I for one am very anxious and ready to provide the tests in that manner, especially if Viking is doing everything in their power to keep their customers and crew safe.  Just my two cents worth.  Thank you.

Does anyone know the name of the Saliva test they are going to run? I'm trying to do some research on it.

[Heidi13]

48 minutes ago, Cruise Guy76 said:

Does anyone know the name of the Saliva test they are going to run? I'm trying to do some research on it.

 

I believe it is known as a Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) test, using saliva inlieu of a nasal swab. 

[Cruise Guy76]

26 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

I believe it is known as a Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) test, using saliva inlieu of a nasal swab. 

Right, but what is the name of the actual test?

[Twitchly]

On 3/14/2021 at 8:41 PM, Porcupine 52 said:

If there is any good news my vaccine testing folks (Pfizer) told me that since I am 6 plus months now of having the vaccine they wanted me in the booster study if my antibodies have drop after the last blood test.  They said they would call within a week.  That was 3 weeks ago now.

If vaccination behaves like immunity from actually having had Covid, you’ve probably still got good antibody activity. My husband got tested for antibodies about 10 or 11 months after having the virus, and his antibodies were still robust enough to qualify him to give plasma. 
 

Even if antibodies fade, your T cells kick in and “remember” a virus so that when you encounter it again (or something similar enough), they rapidly generate new antibodies. That’s one theory behind why Covid didn’t hit Asian countries as hard as elsewhere; they may have some residual immunity from the first SARS virus.

[dwlmg]

The CDC again briefed the need to limit travel on Monday, 29 Mar. If they were true to their spots, they would limit air travel to airplanes with less than 100 passengers as they do to the cruise industry. Even with an empty middle seat, I am far closer to more people than I am on a cruise. There are certainly several reports of issues with  plane loads of people where the response paralleled the experience with the Diamond Princess.

[Twitchly]

2 hours ago, dwlmg said:

The CDC again briefed the need to limit travel on Monday, 29 Mar. If they were true to their spots, they would limit air travel to airplanes with less than 100 passengers as they do to the cruise industry. Even with an empty middle seat, I am far closer to more people than I am on a cruise. There are certainly several reports of issues with  plane loads of people where the response paralleled the experience with the Diamond Princess.

What reports? I did a bunch of research before we flew last fall but wasn’t able to find anything recent. Planes + masks seem to be pretty safe these days.
 

 

[Twitchly]

On 3/14/2021 at 8:03 PM, Heidi13 said:

In my day the proof consisted of the WHO health record book (yellow book), but with counterfitters rampant these days, I suspect it will require some form of electronic Govt authorised record.

Covid vaccine cards are extremely easy to forge, at least in the US. And right now, we have no central database for who’s been vaccinated. Some states are attempting to keep electronic records, some aren’t. The focus has been largely on getting shots into arms rather than tracking that information afterward. 
 

Which makes the whole idea of requiring vaccination to take a cruise (or do anything else) interesting and probably impossible to accurately enforce, at least for now. Anyone can say they’ve been vaccinated.

[Jim Avery]

It would be rather simple to make a paper vaccine booklet just like you carry a paper passport.  Worked just fine till it was eliminated around the time the EU was created.  It's not like websites and apps aren't hacked as much as paper counterfeiters mess with money and documents.  

[Twitchly]

23 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

It would be rather simple to make a paper vaccine booklet just like you carry a paper passport.  Worked just fine till it was eliminated around the time the EU was created.  It's not like websites and apps aren't hacked as much as paper counterfeiters mess with money and documents.  

When I say it’s extremely easy to forge a Covid vaccine card, I mean that I could do it in about 10 minutes using my phone and a printer. I could either use one of the templates online (they’re already out there) or simply photograph an existing card and tweak it lightly in a design app. Print it on card stock, hand-write my (or your) name and fake vaccine info, and voila. The CDC didn’t attempt to make these cards even remotely tough to reproduce (as the government has done with passports). 

 

It’s certainly possible to hack into databases, but it’s not nearly as easy as asking your buddy’s kid to whip up a paper card for you. 

[Jim Avery]

Haha my Buddy’s kids are busy hacking sites as we speak.🍸

[Heidi13]

27 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

Haha my Buddy’s kids are busy hacking sites as we speak.🍸

 

Hey Jim - makes you wonder why we bothered to get vaccinated all those years to work at sea. We could have forged the darn thing. Will need to consult the grandson to see how much he charges, since I don't use one of those infernal cell phone things.😁

 

Time to visit Explorer's for re-hydration therapy.🍺

Edited March 31, 2021 by Heidi13

[Jim Avery]

I guess we were just stupid Andy.  For every reason not to have a paper card I can think of a counter reason why an app on your phone is bad.  You have apps on your two cans and a string???🍺  See you at Explorer's....😎

[dwlmg]

4 hours ago, Twitchly said:

What reports? I did a bunch of research before we flew last fall but wasn’t able to find anything recent. Planes + masks seem to be pretty safe these days.
 

 

Right you are.  The airlines have not had any reported COVID incidents in recent times.  I was thinking about the  'Flight from Hell' article reported on 60 Minutes.  I have since realized the flight was  a repatriation of cruise passengers.  I do believe that there were instances of new infection on the flight, but it predated the practice of masking.  That said, the CDC could say masking iaw airline practice is a requirement and open cruising without a vaccination requirement and be consistent with risk management protocols on aircraft carrying more than 100 passengers.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

At the rate vaccinations are going, at least in California, the vax cards will pretty well be a moot point soon.  Especially for lux cruises where the demo tends towards us geezers.  The vax uptake rate for geezers is very high in California.

 

We don’t know any admitted anti-vaxers, of any age. (Note though: Polite company tends to shun ol’ Ragnar, so my circle of acquaintances is fairly small.  Well, it actually just consists of Jim Avery....).

 

Sorry if this vax info doesn’t apply to your localities, I pretty much ignore news about “those other states” 🙂

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Moooooooo.....

 

https://deadline.com/2021/03/los-angeles-herd-immunity-covid-late-june-twelve-weeks-1234725608/

 

[Twitchly]

6 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

I guess we were just stupid Andy.  For every reason not to have a paper card I can think of a counter reason why an app on your phone is bad.  You have apps on your two cans and a string???🍺  See you at Explorer's....😎

Nah, not stupid. Just didn’t have all these newfangled graphics apps and smart phones back then so people had to work harder at being dishonest. 
 

Now you’ve made me wonder whatever happened to my old yellow vaccine booklet. 

[Heidi13]

7 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

I guess we were just stupid Andy.  For every reason not to have a paper card I can think of a counter reason why an app on your phone is bad.  You have apps on your two cans and a string???🍺  See you at Explorer's....😎

 

Jim - we have new wireless technology, the 2 cans and a string were last year's technology, this year we have heliographs😁