Lost all confidence in sailing 2021

[Trimone]

Last week with the U.K. commencement of cruising around the GB opening May 17th, I had some confidence in worldwide cruising following suit, however the cancellations just yesterday by NCL, and also many European countries suspending the use of Astra Zeneca vaccine until fully investigated about a handful of blood clots, I’ve given up hope, the only updates cruising seems to get is on cruise critic. I know many contractors within the cruise industry, and they are in the same boat.. nobody is saying nothing.

[david_sobe]

No one can see into the future but all of us have control over when sailing begins again.  The more people getting vaccinated and people still wearing masks can have this Covid on the run by the summer.  By the fall if everyone still demands vaccinations and wears masks we can get this snuffed out by the fall.  It takes 90s days for NCL to get ready for cruising.  Lets say Oct 1 is the sail date, that means by summer things will start ramping up.

We have come this far..........its almost here.

[bucfan2]

2 hours ago, david_sobe said:

No one can see into the future but all of us have control over when sailing begins again.  The more people getting vaccinated and people still wearing masks can have this Covid on the run by the summer.  By the fall if everyone still demands vaccinations and wears masks we can get this snuffed out by the fall.  It takes 90s days for NCL to get ready for cruising.  Lets say Oct 1 is the sail date, that means by summer things will start ramping up.

We have come this far..........its almost here.

Sure hope you’re right.  
 

I tend to side w/ the OP - losing faith in sailing in 2021, and wondering what cruise lines will survive.  Sure hope I’m wrong. 

[roger001]

I unfortunately am beginning to think you're right, at least for any type cruising I would like.  With so many here refusing the vaccines (paper today said almost 50% of Republicans and even 30% of Democrats, the majority of prison guards, the many countries refusing the now rejected vaccine based on 40 blood clots among the 11,000,000 injected, our mask mandate removed yesterday, on and on), not going to happen as quick as it sure could.  The only possible way, vaccine required to board a cruise ship and no port stops.  I guess we'll see.  

[GA Dave]

27 minutes ago, roger001 said:

I unfortunately am beginning to think you're right, at least for any type cruising I would like.  With so many here refusing the vaccines (paper today said almost 50% of Republicans and even 30% of Democrats, the majority of prison guards, the many countries refusing the now rejected vaccine based on 40 blood clots among the 11,000,000 injected, our mask mandate removed yesterday, on and on), not going to happen as quick as it sure could.  The only possible way, vaccine required to board a cruise ship and no port stops.  I guess we'll see.  

I agree with you.  We opened a new mass vaccination facility at my employer's facility today and the local news was saying that they still had many open appointment slots available for every day starting today and going forward.  The current capacity of this site is 1,100 doses per day, with expansion to 2,200 doses per day over the next few weeks.  But, none of that will matter if people do not show up.

[DCGuy64]

I agree with the OP. If we lived in a world where logic and common sense prevailed, the CDC would have seen the writing on the wall with the Healthy Sail Panel's recommendations, and the prevalence of multiple vaccines, then begun the process of notifying the cruise lines to call their crews back and begin to prepare a resumption of cruising. Instead, we have the CDC doing NOTHING publicly to assure us that a restart is imminent. As a result, some cruise lines are attempting to stay afloat (no pun intended) by offering domestic "cruises to nowhere" from the UK, Israel and Singapore, with a few Italian ships offering trips exclusively to Schengen-area citizens.That's it. Pathetic. Large-scale cruising in the US and Europe, as well as Asia and South America, is a very long way off. I doubt we'll be going anywhere until spring 2022.

[jskinsd]

So much for the hope and faith.  Maybe it is time to start complaining.✌️

[farmersfight]

4 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I agree with the OP. If we lived in a world where logic and common sense prevailed, the CDC would have seen the writing on the wall with the Healthy Sail Panel's recommendations, and the prevalence of multiple vaccines, then begun the process of notifying the cruise lines to call their crews back and begin to prepare a resumption of cruising. Instead, we have the CDC doing NOTHING publicly to assure us that a restart is imminent. As a result, some cruise lines are attempting to stay afloat (no pun intended) by offering domestic "cruises to nowhere" from the UK, Israel and Singapore, with a few Italian ships offering trips exclusively to Schengen-area citizens.That's it. Pathetic. Large-scale cruising in the US and Europe, as well as Asia and South America, is a very long way off. I doubt we'll be going anywhere until spring 2022.

 

Great summary of where cruising is at right now, in a nutshell. But boy, I hope you're wrong about large-scale cruising out of the U.S. being a long way off.

[GA Dave]

Well, my 2021 cruise money is now officially redirected/spent.  Universal Orlando will be getting my money at their Portofino Bay Hotel resort and via a Preferred Annual Pass purchase.  I have to get on with my life and, since cruising is dead, others will get my money.

Edited March 17, 2021 by GA Dave

[3kidsncats]

Our next cruise is mid December, and I’m still hopeful it will sail.  And fully ok with proof of vaccine in order to sail (and yes, I’ve seen the discussions about how to prove status, potential fraud, etc., but still believe a shipboard herd immunity could obtained with a proof of vaccine requirement). 
 

I hope more people decide to get the vaccine.  I understand some hesitation of getting a new vaccine, but I don’t understand the partisan component.  I got my first dose yesterday, husband is done, travel buddies are done or also at first dose.  Just need eligibility for healthy young people so my adult kids can sail with us as planned.

[AstoriaPreppy]

32 minutes ago, GA Dave said:

Universal Orlando will be getting my money at their Portofino Bay Hotel resort and via a Preferred Annual Pass purchase.

Portofino Bay is really a lovely hotel... and the bathrooms alone are about the size of an entire NCL interior stateroom!

Also, this thread highlights how important it is to talk to everyone you know about the vaccine: friends, family, coworkers... and post on social media. Get on FB and be vocal about your vaccine plans, experiences, and outcomes. 

[podgeandrodge]

6 hours ago, roger001 said:

I unfortunately am beginning to think you're right, at least for any type cruising I would like.  With so many here refusing the vaccines (paper today said almost 50% of Republicans and even 30% of Democrats, the majority of prison guards, the many countries refusing the now rejected vaccine based on 40 blood clots among the 11,000,000 injected, our mask mandate removed yesterday, on and on), not going to happen as quick as it sure could.  The only possible way, vaccine required to board a cruise ship and no port stops.  I guess we'll see.  

Well I suppose if cruise lines require passengers to have a vaccine cert, everyone on board should be pretty safe from each other.  As for port stops, if everyone coming off the ship is vaccinated, should there really be too much concern about getting off at ports?

 

Maybe I am too optimistic about vaccines preventing transmission, but it does sound like that is likely to be the case.

Edited March 17, 2021 by podgeandrodge

[AstoriaPreppy]

4 minutes ago, podgeandrodge said:

As for port stops, if everyone coming off the ship is vaccinated, should there really be too much concern about getting off at ports?

Unfortunately, the vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid entirely... but they do decrease the severity and risk of death to a much more manageable level.

 

Hypothetically, a passenger could be fully vaccinated, leave the ship, get the coronavirus from an unimmunized person on land, and then transmit a widespread infection amongst the other passengers. While a fully vaccinated passenger load means it's likely only a small percentage of people would become ill on the ship, there's still a risk of death.

A vaccine isn't a magic bullet until we reach heard immunity everywhere, and transmission of the virus slows and eventually putters out. It's great that the US is doing so well, but the next steps are going to have to be global to get places cruises go to up to the same level. 

[podgeandrodge]

Yeah, fair enough.  Though at some point people will have to get out and about, you'll never eliminate risk.  Hopefully that situation will happen by year end!

[Bramcruiser]

I am beginning more and more to think like the OP. I booked a 2022 cruise last year after a cancellation of a 2020 cruise and asking for a refund. I thought: What the heck, its way, way off so surely we must be going back to normal by then. Not in my wildest dreams did I expect that 2021 would just be a continuing rollout of cancellations. One year later, with lockdowns and vaccines, everything feels the same as it did a year ago. So now I am wondering about 2022 and the cruise I booked. If I don't see cruising return by the end of this summer (or at least looking like it will be happening shortly) I think its just safer to cancel my cruise, take the money and wait for a land vacation. This year I have ignored the tons of flyers and emails I have been bombarded with from the cruise lines.

[3kidsncats]

2 hours ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

Unfortunately, the vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid entirely... but they do decrease the severity and risk of death to a much more manageable level.

 

Hypothetically, a passenger could be fully vaccinated, leave the ship, get the coronavirus from an unimmunized person on land, and then transmit a widespread infection amongst the other passengers. While a fully vaccinated passenger load means it's likely only a small percentage of people would become ill on the ship, there's still a risk of death.

A vaccine isn't a magic bullet until we reach heard immunity everywhere, and transmission of the virus slows and eventually putters out. It's great that the US is doing so well, but the next steps are going to have to be global to get places cruises go to up to the same level. 

Data is clearly indicating that vaccinated people are at very low risk of death if they contract Covid (to date there have been zero deaths among fully vaccinated people).  And more data is emerging that supports the experts in their theory that fully vaccinated people who contract Covid harbor a much lower viral load, and therefore can only transmit a low viral load — translation is vaccinated people are most likely to experience and transmit non-severe Covid.  Of course there is always the possibility of an outlier, but I doubt it’s a high enough risk to keep the cruising industry closed, provided the lines require vaccination. 

[HowardK]

When will they announce 2024 bookings? Maybe things will be safer by then. 

[BoozinCroozin]

Have a little faith. I know bad news reigns in more fear than good news brings hope. The media doesn't want hope because they are profiting tremendously from fear-mongering. I can only speak from a US perspective because I don't have info worldwide. Right now we have Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J. AZ is a garbage vaccine comparatively and no nation should approve them. Novavax released trial data to the EU (I think that is where it was) with efficacy higher than all currently approved and immunity results just as high in the variants. I hope the FDA gives EUA approval for Novavax as well. That will put the supply of vaccines above what is required to vaccinate everyone in the US over 16 by the end of June.

 

Where we have a real problem is people taking it. It is time to start playing hardball in the US. The government cannot force one to take the vaccine, but they can force quarantining until it is over. This can be done by freezing accounts, forced locked down in home, banning living in multi-family facilities (apartments and such), use of public facilities, requiring proof of vaccination to enter grocery stores. There is a lot that can be done. If covid is as serious as shutting the country down for 12+ months, we can shift to Marshall control of those that refuse to end it. 

[roger001]

2 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Have a little faith. I know bad news reigns in more fear than good news brings hope. The media doesn't want hope because they are profiting tremendously from fear-mongering. I can only speak from a US perspective because I don't have info worldwide. Right now we have Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J. AZ is a garbage vaccine comparatively and no nation should approve them. Novavax released trial data to the EU (I think that is where it was) with efficacy higher than all currently approved and immunity results just as high in the variants. I hope the FDA gives EUA approval for Novavax as well. That will put the supply of vaccines above what is required to vaccinate everyone in the US over 16 by the end of June.

 

Where we have a real problem is people taking it. It is time to start playing hardball in the US. The government cannot force one to take the vaccine, but they can force quarantining until it is over. This can be done by freezing accounts, forced locked down in home, banning living in multi-family facilities (apartments and such), use of public facilities, requiring proof of vaccination to enter grocery stores. There is a lot that can be done. If covid is as serious as shutting the country down for 12+ months, we can shift to Marshall control of those that refuse to end it. 

Wow!  Now there is an exciting look at a new US Civil War.   Also, the Associated Press today reported that Europe has less than 5% fully vaccinated at this time.  Hoping to have 70% done by end of June.   The ships aren't going anywhere soon.  

[ColeThornton]

3 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Have a little faith. I know bad news reigns in more fear than good news brings hope. The media doesn't want hope because they are profiting tremendously from fear-mongering. I can only speak from a US perspective because I don't have info worldwide. Right now we have Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J. AZ is a garbage vaccine comparatively and no nation should approve them. Novavax released trial data to the EU (I think that is where it was) with efficacy higher than all currently approved and immunity results just as high in the variants. I hope the FDA gives EUA approval for Novavax as well. That will put the supply of vaccines above what is required to vaccinate everyone in the US over 16 by the end of June.

 

Where we have a real problem is people taking it. It is time to start playing hardball in the US. The government cannot force one to take the vaccine, but they can force quarantining until it is over. This can be done by freezing accounts, forced locked down in home, banning living in multi-family facilities (apartments and such), use of public facilities, requiring proof of vaccination to enter grocery stores. There is a lot that can be done. If covid is as serious as shutting the country down for 12+ months, we can shift to Marshall control of those that refuse to end it. 

 

 

Who is Marshall?  

[BoozinCroozin]

20 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

Who is Marshall?  

Auto-correct 🙂

 

[GA Dave]

32 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

Who is Marshall?  

I think he is talking about declaring Marshall Law.  BUT, the current administration has rejected the idea of a simple digital vaccine passport that the travel and entertainment industries have requested as being illegal and unethical.  Based on this policy, I really do not think they are going to lock up people who do not get the vaccine.  (BTW, I am fully vaccinated for almost a month now, so I don't have a dog in this fight.  I just want my normal life back.)

[ColeThornton]

6 minutes ago, GA Dave said:

I think he is talking about declaring Marshall Law.  BUT, the current administration has rejected the idea of a simple digital vaccine passport that the travel and entertainment industries have requested as being illegal and unethical.  Based on this policy, I really do not think they are going to lock up people who do not get the vaccine.  (BTW, I am fully vaccinated for almost a month now, so I don't have a dog in this fight.  I just want my normal life back.)

 

Actually, he was talking about MARTIAL law, but I wasn't correcting his spelling, I thought he was speaking about someone in authority.

 

Definitely a pre-coffee "Duh" moment on my part.  🙂

[bbnmom]

5 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Have a little faith. I know bad news reigns in more fear than good news brings hope. The media doesn't want hope because they are profiting tremendously from fear-mongering. I can only speak from a US perspective because I don't have info worldwide. Right now we have Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J. AZ is a garbage vaccine comparatively and no nation should approve them. Novavax released trial data to the EU (I think that is where it was) with efficacy higher than all currently approved and immunity results just as high in the variants. I hope the FDA gives EUA approval for Novavax as well. That will put the supply of vaccines above what is required to vaccinate everyone in the US over 16 by the end of June.

 

Where we have a real problem is people taking it. It is time to start playing hardball in the US. The government cannot force one to take the vaccine, but they can force quarantining until it is over. This can be done by freezing accounts, forced locked down in home, banning living in multi-family facilities (apartments and such), use of public facilities, requiring proof of vaccination to enter grocery stores. There is a lot that can be done. If covid is as serious as shutting the country down for 12+ months, we can shift to Marshall control of those that refuse to end it. 

Whoa! That is a little extreme. I don't think we need to shut anything down. The ones that don't want the vaccine will eventually contract the virus. Now I do think businesses could mandate vaccination for employment or for those wishing to use their services but shut downs and martial law is, as I said, IMO, unnecessarily extreme.

Edited March 18, 2021 by bbnmom
misspelling

[bbnmom]

19 hours ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

Unfortunately, the vaccines don't prevent you from getting covid entirely... but they do decrease the severity and risk of death to a much more manageable level.

 

Hypothetically, a passenger could be fully vaccinated, leave the ship, get the coronavirus from an unimmunized person on land, and then transmit a widespread infection amongst the other passengers. While a fully vaccinated passenger load means it's likely only a small percentage of people would become ill on the ship, there's still a risk of death.

A vaccine isn't a magic bullet until we reach heard immunity everywhere, and transmission of the virus slows and eventually putters out. It's great that the US is doing so well, but the next steps are going to have to be global to get places cruises go to up to the same level. 

I have read (just this morning) that all 3 US vaccines 100% no death due to the virus.