Should the Covid vaccine be required?

[sugcarol]

At first I wanted a fully vaccinated crew and passengers, but after seeing the comments about the reluctance to get the vaccine, I have decided I will  cruise anyway. I'm fully vaccinated and do not have fear of getting Covid from unvaccinated passengers. If they don't care about themselves or others then I do not care about them. I will leave it up to the cruise lines and ports to make the decision. JMHO

[time4u2go]

23 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

As of March 12th there were 100,000,000 ADULTS with at least one injection.

 

I'm curious where you get that number from, by that date.  If you are talking about adults in the US, from the link below, it appears that about 66,000,000 adults had received at least one dose by then.  If you are talking about world-wide, then 100,000,000 adults had received at least one dose by about February 14.  If you have a different source that's showing different numbers, I'd be curious to see it.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by time4u2go

[crewsweeper]

I'm guessing that this summer if the variants don't rise significantly and don't affect vaccine recipients, and have fewer deaths, maybe the CDC director will stop shaking in fear and doom and remove the order.  But she'll wait until after Labor Day and any hiccup maybe never.

[broberts]

40 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Not pointless at all 

Not inaccurate at all

To expect an agency that is currently announcing to the public that they are preparing for “impending doom” to make an informed, scientifically based decision to allow the cruise industry to move forward; is folly. 

 

 

Typical spin. Raising expectations so that later you can claim how wrong the CDC was. It is not predicting impending doom. It is saying that the current rush to abandon mitigation efforts is worrisome and could lead to another wave.

 

Since the predictions of the CDC and others have been right more often that the gainsayers I suspect its concerns have a lot of science backing them up. Certainly more than those attacking the agency.

 

If you or the cruise industry has actual, verifiable data that confirms cruising at previous levels poses no serious risk to the US, present it to the CDC. In the mean time it would be nice if there was a cesation of baseless attacks on the integrity and competence of the CDC.

[not-enough-cruising]

19 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Typical spin. Raising expectations so that later you can claim how wrong the CDC was. It is not predicting impending doom. It is saying that the current rush to abandon mitigation efforts is worrisome and could lead to another wave.

 

Since the predictions of the CDC and others have been right more often that the gainsayers I suspect its concerns have a lot of science backing them up. Certainly more than those attacking the agency.

 

If you or the cruise industry has actual, verifiable data that confirms cruising at previous levels poses no serious risk to the US, present it to the CDC. In the mean time it would be nice if there was a cesation of baseless attacks on the integrity and competence of the CDC.

You, obviously have much more confidence in them than do I (and I work under their purview) 

 

there is no spin, I was quoting the director “impending doom” with no data to support

such a claim. 

Edited March 31, 2021 by not-enough-cruising

[cured]

1 hour ago, sugcarol said:

At first I wanted a fully vaccinated crew and passengers, but after seeing the comments about the reluctance to get the vaccine, I have decided I will  cruise anyway. I'm fully vaccinated and do not have fear of getting Covid from unvaccinated passengers. If they don't care about themselves or others then I do not care about them. I will leave it up to the cruise lines and ports to make the decision. JMHO

I don't have a fear of catching Covid being vaccinated. I am more concerned about what happens to a vacation if there is an outbreak amongst unvaccinated passengers. Does the cruise get cut short to bring the sick passengers back to port? Do we miss a port or two because the islands don't want people from a ship that has some cases aboard to mingle with their residents?  

 

I would rather have a vaccinated ship (including the teens/tweens) to minimize any fallout from an outbreak amongst unvaccinated cruisers. 

[broberts]

3 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You, obviously have much more confidence in them than do I (and I work under their purview) 

 

there is. I spin, I was quoting the director “impending doom” with no data to support

such a claim. 

 

If you are going to quote an official making known a personal opinion it shouldn't be presented as "... agency that is currently announcing to the public that they are preparing for “impending doom” . As I said, spin.

[Ocean Boy]

3 minutes ago, cured said:

I don't have a fear of catching Covid being vaccinated. I am more concerned about what happens to a vacation if there is an outbreak amongst unvaccinated passengers. Does the cruise get cut short to bring the sick passengers back to port? Do we miss a port or two because the islands don't want people from a ship that has some cases aboard to mingle with their residents?  

 

I would rather have a vaccinated ship (including the teens/tweens) to minimize any fallout from an outbreak amongst unvaccinated cruisers. 

This is what people keep forgetting about. A 100% vaccinated ship gives us the best possibility of getting as close to the cruise experience that we all know. It is not just abour being vacinated yourself giving you protection.

[not-enough-cruising]

47 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

If you are going to quote an official making known a personal opinion it shouldn't be presented as "... agency that is currently announcing to the public that they are preparing for “impending doom” . As I said, spin.

The CDC director does NOT give personal opinion from the podium. If that is what she was doing, then she should be fired. 
 

stop defending this massive breach of protocol and abuse of public trust. 

[sugcarol]

1 hour ago, cured said:

I don't have a fear of catching Covid being vaccinated. I am more concerned about what happens to a vacation if there is an outbreak amongst unvaccinated passengers. Does the cruise get cut short to bring the sick passengers back to port? Do we miss a port or two because the islands don't want people from a ship that has some cases aboard to mingle with their residents?  

 

I would rather have a vaccinated ship (including the teens/tweens) to minimize any fallout from an outbreak amongst unvaccinated cruisers. 

My situation is different. My cruise is an american flagged ship sailing only in Hawaii. They would be able to off load any sick patients in Honolulu and continue on with cruise. Just today in the news there, they are considering letting fully vaccinated to show their vaccination card, while they work on a digital vaccine passport. We will know more soon. 

 

[skywonder]

3 hours ago, sugcarol said:

At first I wanted a fully vaccinated crew and passengers, but after seeing the comments about the reluctance to get the vaccine, I have decided I will  cruise anyway. I'm fully vaccinated and do not have fear of getting Covid from unvaccinated passengers. If they don't care about themselves or others then I do not care about them. I will leave it up to the cruise lines and ports to make the decision. JMHO

It is NOT about them not caring about others it is about them making a choice they feel safe with. If you are so worried about Covid then maybe you should not sail or do anything else for that matter. See it works both ways.

[skywonder]

2 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You, obviously have much more confidence in them than do I (and I work under their purview) 

 

there is no spin, I was quoting the director “impending doom” with no data to support

such a claim. 

Well said, I agree 100 percent.

[sugcarol]

2 minutes ago, skywonder said:

It is NOT about them not caring about others it is about them making a choice they feel safe with. If you are so worried about Covid then maybe you should not sail or do anything else for that matter. See it works both ways.

Where did you get the idea i was worried about covid?. I have changed my thinking about whether i did or did not want to cruise with unvaccinated passengers. I have done all i can to protect myself and others. I wont worry about what the person next to me does. This is not March 2020. We now know what it is, how to treat and how to prevent. At the beginning it was total chaos, it is not that way anymore.

[cured]

42 minutes ago, skywonder said:

It is NOT about them not caring about others it is about them making a choice they feel safe with. If you are so worried about Covid then maybe you should not sail or do anything else for that matter. See it works both ways.

As is Royal Caribbean. They are making a choice that they feel safe with. As of right now, Royal Caribbean's choice is that adults that are not vaccinated cannot sail. 

 

Hopefully this will extend to teens and tweens once Pfizer gets authorization for their vaccine and it and the others become more available for teens. Pfizer is anticipating having their vaccine ready for teens by late summer.

 

Not sure how it works both ways. Per the rules right now, those not vaccinated are the ones who cannot sail.  Maybe it will change. But the bean counters have obviously done their homework and have determined that a vaccinated ship is better for business for their brand, thus putting the over 18 vaccination rule in place.

 

Who knows, maybe Carnival will soon be available to unvaccinated passengers.  

Edited March 31, 2021 by cured

[smokeybandit]

14 minutes ago, cured said:

They are making a choice that they feel safe with

 

They're making a choice that they feel will maximize reservations. Otherwise they'd require vaccinations in Singapore

[mek]

27 minutes ago, sugcarol said:

Where did you get the idea i was worried about covid?. I have changed my thinking about whether i did or did not want to cruise with unvaccinated passengers. I have done all i can to protect myself and others. I wont worry about what the person next to me does. This is not March 2020. We now know what it is, how to treat and how to prevent. At the beginning it was total chaos, it is not that way anymore.

I agree with you up to a point, but I will admit that I am slightly concerned about the variants.  Michigan is a mess with NY and NJ not far behind with increasing cases.  I will admit I don't know how much the mutations are affecting the increases, but something is causing it.

Also, I'm not totally convinced how protected I will be if I am exposed to someone with one of the variants.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fully vaccinated and have started doing many of the things I wasn't able to do this past year, but I will not throw all caution to the wind until we see just what the state of Covid is over the next few months.

[mek]

5 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

They're making a choice that they feel will maximize reservations. Otherwise they'd require vaccinations in Singapore

Why do you continue to insist on comparing what is happening in Singapore with the US?  It's simply not the same.

[cured]

11 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

They're making a choice that they feel will maximize reservations. Otherwise they'd require vaccinations in Singapore

Yup, mentioned that in the same post.

 

You cannot compare the  "best for society" centered Asian culture to the wildly individualistic US culture. What has worked in Singapore will not work in the US. Additionally, Singapore has a rule that no one who has had covid in the past 6 months can board the ship. Good luck finding enough Americans who have not been exposed to covid in the past 6 months to even partially fill a ship. Singapore has very, very strict rules, rules that Americans would never tolerate. To try to compare results of their cruises to what would happen in the US is apples to oranges.

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by cured

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, cured said:

 Singapore has a rule that no one who has had covid in the past 6 months can board the ship.

Which is an entirely stupid rule with no medical backing.

[cured]

3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Which is an entirely stupid rule with no medical backing.

Their country, their rules. And their rules have worked. They can cruise with people not having tested positive for covid for 6 months.

 

 I am sure they think some of our decisions are entirely stupid since they have led the US to one of the world's worst responses to covid.

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by cured

[smokeybandit]

2 minutes ago, cured said:

I am sure they think some of our decisions are entirely stupid since they have led the US to one of the world's worst responses to covid.

 

Actually one of the best in the world, especially among large countries.

[sugcarol]

24 minutes ago, mek said:

I agree with you up to a point, but I will admit that I am slightly concerned about the variants.  Michigan is a mess with NY and NJ not far behind with increasing cases.  I will admit I don't know how much the mutations are affecting the increases, but something is causing it.

Also, I'm not totally convinced how protected I will be if I am exposed to someone with one of the variants.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fully vaccinated and have started doing many of the things I wasn't able to do this past year, but I will not throw all caution to the wind until we see just what the state of Covid is over the next few months.

Nobody should throw caution to the wind, but as a retired nurse and close friend of my doctor a provider of the vaccine in North Texas, he says treatment would be the same, variant or not, and vaccine as well. The booster for Covid may  factor in the variants just like the flu virus vax changes each year. I will roll with the flow and not worry about something unless and until it  became a serious issue.

[sugcarol]

31 minutes ago, cured said:

Yup, mentioned that in the same post.

 

You cannot compare the  "best for society" centered Asian culture to the wildly individualistic US culture. What has worked in Singapore will not work in the US. Additionally, Singapore has a rule that no one who has had covid in the past 6 months can board the ship. Good luck finding enough Americans who have not been exposed to covid in the past 6 months to even partially fill a ship. Singapore has very, very strict rules, rules that Americans would never tolerate. To try to compare results of their cruises to what would happen in the US is apples to oranges.

 

Right, Singapore has 5.7 million people. USA has 331 million people.

[time4u2go]

22 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

Actually one of the best in the world, especially among large countries.

Using what measure?

 

Among the world's 20 most populated countries, the US has the most cases per million people, and most deaths per million people.

[smokeybandit]

1 minute ago, time4u2go said:

Using what measure?

 

Among the world's 20 most populated countries, the US has the most cases per million people, and most deaths per million people.

 

Also the most tests per million and only one country in that top 20 is even close. Test less, find less cases, have less deaths. Simple math.