Carnival’s CEO states that they will not require vaccinations

[mredandchis]

8 hours ago, OceanZena said:

I don't think you will have control over unforeseen side effects that may appear down the road with those untested jabs. But since it will get you back to cruising quickly, it'll be worth it right? 

there are many unforeseen side effects including the actual virus.  Covid infected people may have respiratory  issues in their latter years.  It is all a toss up.  

[mredandchis]

1 hour ago, Tippyton said:

I think you'll find this fascinating....

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/7/5/17500782/zero-number-math-explained

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

 

 

 

I don't know who you are but I could hang out with you.  I found the articles fascinating, true and a lot of fun.  

[OceanZena]

2 hours ago, skridge said:

My wife is going through the effects of long term Covid as we speak.  It is not only the 500k dead but the untold number of people who are going through the long term effects from this virus.  Unfortunately people like you are out there spreading misinformation about the Vaccine.  Keep waving your don't tread on me flag.

What does that mean? "Don't tread on me flag?" And what does that have to do with the conversation? Why do those who disagree continue seem to deflect away from the topic with crazy stuff like this? 

 

And where did I spread "misinformation?"Since you're directly quoting me with this reply please quote exactly where I spread this "misinformation"? Thanks. 

[Tippyton]

1 hour ago, mredandchis said:

I don't know who you are but I could hang out with you.  I found the articles fascinating, true and a lot of fun.  

[Not fixing the autocorrect and punctuation errors LOL]

 

Maybe you'll find me on a future cruise 😁.  I tire of these folks that over-simplify very complex concepts.  As I said before the notion of getting to zero is a fool's errand for many reasons.  In statistics the Confidence Interval is essentially a set area under the normal distribution curve.  The old 80/20 rule is a derivation of this concept.  95% CI gets you out on the curve quite a ways.  99% even further.  

 

Let's take recurrences of COVID.  It will happen.  The trials show 95% efficacy.  That's still 50,000 per million.  In a trail of 40,000 participants, there were no unusual. Blood clots.  We now have a real life trail with 100 million vaccinations.  The normal distribution curve may look the same, but the scale is different.  Instead of a .027 (say ,blood clots) value (y-axis) at a point on the x-axis, it is now 27,000 because our sample size is 40 million and not 40,000.

 

Anyway, here's another good read that's related.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Tippyton

[OceanZena]

1 hour ago, mredandchis said:

there are many unforeseen side effects including the actual virus.  Covid infected people may have respiratory  issues in their latter years.  It is all a toss up.  

The key word there is "may". Cases of this virus have only been known for less than 16 months so it's a bit of a stretch to assume people will have issues in their latter years from this virus. It's just too early to tell. Just like me having hesitation of possible side effects of the shot which is speculation, issues with Covid years down the line is speculation also. 

 

[d12j28]

21 minutes ago, OceanZena said:

What does that mean? "Don't tread on me flag?" And what does that have to do with the conversation? Why do those who disagree continue seem to deflect away from the topic with crazy stuff like this? 

 

And where did I spread "misinformation?"Since you're directly quoting me with this reply please quote exactly where I spread this "misinformation"? Thanks. 

There are a few on here that constantly get away with name calling when they don't agree. 

[OceanZena]

5 minutes ago, d12j28 said:

There are a few on here that constantly get away with name calling when they don't agree. 

The important thing is to not drop down to that level and try to stay on topic. In any case, i'm curious if they will still sail Carnival if those of us who choose not to take the shots are free to sail with negative testing upon boarding. As soon as Carnival can confirm that, I will be booking asap. 

[d12j28]

4 minutes ago, OceanZena said:

The important thing is to not drop down to that level and try to stay on topic. In any case, i'm curious if they will still sail Carnival if those of us who choose not to take the shots are free to sail with negative testing upon boarding. As soon as Carnival can confirm that, I will be booking asap. 

You won't see them step foot near a cruise ship that isn't fully vaccinated. 😂

 

Once I see what Carnival decides on I will make my decision then on whether to cruise or not. We have a B2B booked for March 2022 so hoping things will be worked out by then. 

[Pizzasteve]

18 minutes ago, OceanZena said:

The important thing is to not drop down to that level and try to stay on topic. In any case, i'm curious if they will still sail Carnival if those of us who choose not to take the shots are free to sail with negative testing upon boarding. As soon as Carnival can confirm that, I will be booking asap. 

Again, the problem with negative testing is that you are basically an open field to plant virus seeds in.  Shore exursions would need to be forbidden and a sort of quarentine enforced.  People do test negative and then shed the virus (for example, you were  exposed on the flight to the cruise, it incubates a few days, then you are shedding to whole ship).  Then you are a high risk source for any unvaccinated crew and passengers).

 

The math just doesnt work on a ship (as opposed to more controllable travel with brief interactions, like a flight where air is recirculated much more effectively than ships).

 

The fact you mentioned washing hands often as your sure fire prevention method just seals the deal for me. The newer dominant strains of the current virus is nearly completely airborn as it's spread method. I wont sail with lines that allow unvaccinated people to take shore excursions until the disease is fully controlled, which will be several years out (we all hope).  Not because I will be exposed, but because of the risk of outbreak and disruption.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Pizzasteve

[OceanZena]

9 minutes ago, d12j28 said:

You won't see them step foot near a cruise ship that isn't fully vaccinated. 😂

 

Once I see what Carnival decides on I will make my decision then on whether to cruise or not. We have a B2B booked for March 2022 so hoping things will be worked out by then. 

It's the only thing keeping me from booking at the moment. I'm getting emails from them daily with such great sales making it so tempting to book---but I want to wait until what their definite plans are and I hope it's released soon. I've always wanted to do a B2B but with pets it's hard to stay away too long---but it's on my bucket list. 

[OceanZena]

3 minutes ago, Pizzasteve said:

Again, the problem with negative testing is that you are basically an open field to plant virus seeds in.  Shore exursions would need to be forbidden and a sort of quarentine enforced.  People do test negative and then shed the virus (for example, you were  exposed on the flight to the cruise, it incubates a few days, then you are shedding to whole ship).  Then you are a high risk source for any unvaccinated crew and passengers).

 

The math just doesnt work on a ship (as opposed to more controllable travel with brief interactions, like a flight where air is recirculated much more effectively than ships).

 

The fact you mentioned washing hands often as your sure fire prevention method just seals the deal for me. The newer dominant strains of the current virus is nearly completely airborn as it's spread method. I wont sail with lines that allow unvaccinated people to take shore excursions until the disease is fully controlled, which will be several years out (we all hope).  Not because I will be exposed, but because of the risk of outbreak and disruption.

I can understand your points even if I don't agree with them. Hopefully there will be sailing options for all of us to choose from until we're past this. And I believe that's the one thing we can all fully agree on, which is to reach the point where it won't even be an issue anymore. 

[Pizzasteve]

6 minutes ago, OceanZena said:

I can understand your points even if I don't agree with them. Hopefully there will be sailing options for all of us to choose from until we're past this. And I believe that's the one thing we can all fully agree on, which is to reach the point where it won't even be an issue anymore. 

A reasonable stance and we all hope for others to achieve happiness.

 

That said, those who refuse vaccination for reasons other than medical necessity are freeloading on the efforts of others to control this deadly disease.  I pity them, but do not respect them.  They are this era's draft dodgers, so to speak.  My opinion only.

[OceanZena]

Just now, Pizzasteve said:

A reasonable stance and we all hope for others to achieve happiness.

 

That said, those who refuse vaccination for reasons other than medical necessity are freeloading on the efforts of others to control this deadly disease.  I pity them, but do not respect them.  They are this era's draft dodgers, so to speak.  My opinion only.

Sigh---you just had to toss an insult in there? 🙄

[jetsfan58]

This Florida Governor is really starting to do and act out some outlandish things. He is so extremely radical (the wrong way) with his thoughts and applications. We all know that these are not his "Insane" ideas but a "Close Mentor" that also resides in Florida. 

 

My concern is that we all are majority Florida cruisers and/or will be in the near future. I am really concerned for the Citizens and the visitors to that State. This guy acts as if Covid has "Magically Disappeared". It hasn't and as a matter of fact did we not just see where India had the highest number of new cases in a long time? 

 

Maybe some of you Florida Cruise Nuts can help convince your Governor that he needs to be compassionate about all Floridians and also Visitors; not just those who he is counting on for future votes. It's really a sad situation that we all could be risking our health coming to cruise.    

[d12j28]

12 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

This Florida Governor is really starting to do and act out some outlandish things. He is so extremely radical (the wrong way) with his thoughts and applications. We all know that these are not his "Insane" ideas but a "Close Mentor" that also resides in Florida. 

 

My concern is that we all are majority Florida cruisers and/or will be in the near future. I am really concerned for the Citizens and the visitors to that State. This guy acts as if Covid has "Magically Disappeared". It hasn't and as a matter of fact did we not just see where India had the highest number of new cases in a long time? 

 

Maybe some of you Florida Cruise Nuts can help convince your Governor that he needs to be compassionate about all Floridians and also Visitors; not just those who he is counting on for future votes. It's really a sad situation that we all could be risking our health coming to cruise.    

Stay home then or cruise from someplace else. Nobody is making you go to Florida.

[Pizzasteve]

1 hour ago, OceanZena said:

Sigh---you just had to toss an insult in there? 🙄

It is truth.  If it hurts, that is on the anti vaccine freeloader.  They are not doing their part out of selfishness, a reliance on unreliable information sources, or political petulance.  If Covid is eventually contolled it is in spite of their actions, not because of them.  Again my opinion and your thin skin doesnt change the truth.

 

These same people would expect health care workers and emergency responders to risk their own lives to save them, yet cant be bothered to get a vaccine they, and we all are to help save our civil society. Refusing vaccine, except for medical need, is the antithisis of patriotism and I want no part of sailing with them. 

 

We've been volunteering at clinics with the heroes saving our country. They are owed our full support.  More Americans have passed due to this disease than in all our wars.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Pizzasteve

[OceanZena]

42 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

This Florida Governor is really starting to do and act out some outlandish things. He is so extremely radical (the wrong way) with his thoughts and applications. We all know that these are not his "Insane" ideas but a "Close Mentor" that also resides in Florida. 

 

My concern is that we all are majority Florida cruisers and/or will be in the near future. I am really concerned for the Citizens and the visitors to that State. This guy acts as if Covid has "Magically Disappeared". It hasn't and as a matter of fact did we not just see where India had the highest number of new cases in a long time? 

 

Maybe some of you Florida Cruise Nuts can help convince your Governor that he needs to be compassionate about all Floridians and also Visitors; not just those who he is counting on for future votes. It's really a sad situation that we all could be risking our health coming to cruise.    

As a Floridian I LOVE my Governor!! ❤️

[OceanZena]

1 minute ago, Pizzasteve said:

It is truth.  If it hurts, that is on the anti vaccine freeloader.  They are not doing their part out of selfishness, a reliance on unreliable information sources, or political petulance.  If Covid is eventually contolled it is in spite of their actions, not because of them.  Again my opinion and your thin skin doesnt change the truth.

Wow. 

[bitemyfly]

The ignor feature on this site is a great thing , just got to remember to sign in !

With the amount of people choosing to be vaccinated coupled with those who have it and recovered ,soon this will over.

We will be evolved procedures that will be different from what we see today in Europe cruises.

I also firmly believe the market will react and respond to the paying customer they try to attract . There will be choices if the demand is there .

[Stallion]

28 minutes ago, Pizzasteve said:

It is truth.  If it hurts, that is on the anti vaccine freeloader.  They are not doing their part out of selfishness, a reliance on unreliable information sources, or political petulance.  If Covid is eventually contolled it is in spite of their actions, not because of them.  Again my opinion and your thin skin doesnt change the truth.

 

These same people would expect health care workers and emergency responders to risk their own lives to save them, yet cant be bothered to get a vaccine they, and we all are to help save our civil society. Refusing vaccine, except for medical need, is the antithisis of patriotism and I want no part of sailing with them. 

 

We've been volunteering at clinics with the heroes saving our country. They are owed our full support.  More Americans have passed due to this disease than in all our wars.

Beautifully stated-let's cut through the **** and tell it like it is. I was amazed at how each sentence was expertly crafted only to be followed by another.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Stallion

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, OceanZena said:

The key word there is "may". Cases of this virus have only been known for less than 16 months so it's a bit of a stretch to assume people will have issues in their latter years from this virus. It's just too early to tell. Just like me having hesitation of possible side effects of the shot which is speculation, issues with Covid years down the line is speculation also. 

 

You have only been avoiding the virus for less than 16 months. I think it is less of a stretch to believe there will be more long term health issues because of the virus than there will be from the vaccines. And there is it in a nutshell. You are an army of one. We outnumber you.

 

 

 

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, Swampbabe said:

As a Floridian myself, I think that he's an unhinged crackpot playing to his audience of other crackpots.

As a non-Floridian apparently some think I am not entitled to an opinion on you know who, so I will just give you a

 

[SNJCruisers]

11 hours ago, OceanZena said:

I'm not worrying about you at all. My apologies if I gave you that impression. 

 

10 hours ago, OceanZena said:

This is a Carnival board. OMG. I just can't anymore with you. Bye. 🖐️

 

2 hours ago, OceanZena said:

What does that mean? "Don't tread on me flag?" And what does that have to do with the conversation? Why do those who disagree continue seem to deflect away from the topic with crazy stuff like this?

 

1 hour ago, OceanZena said:

The important thing is to not drop down to that level and try to stay on topic. In any case, i'm curious if they will still sail Carnival if those of us who choose not to take the shots are free to sail with negative testing upon boarding. As soon as Carnival can confirm that, I will be booking asap. 

 

Even though you are not worrying about me, I certainly am worrying about you.  If by some chance Carnival does in fact let the unvaccinated on board, even with negative testing, that will increase the possibility of having to wear a mask on board.  If the ship was 100% fully vaccinated like NCL's current summer policy, masks may not have to be worn at all, or certainly less often.  I for one, hate the damn things.  I'm sure we will agree on that.  But of course I am sure there will be many of the unvaccinated that will try to avoid wearing masks as often as possible even if required and once again fly the "Don't tread on me flag", whose meaning is linked in the paragraph below. 

 

Still trying to wrap my head about why you got so upset about me bringing up NCL.  You do realize that we are all in this together?  Covid doesn't just choose Carnival, it chooses all of the cruise lines and the policies that those other lines are currently implementing and will be implementing in the future effects all cruisers, not just those cruisers that are sailing on that specific line.

 

Many have brought up variants that are indeed staying on topic and I guess since they are slightly outside the myopic view that you have you don't realize it.

Here is a link that will educate you as to what "Don't thread on me" means and how the meaning is still true today just like it was 250 years ago.  You obviously were absent the day your American History teacher taught it.  https://www.dictionary.com/e/pop-culture/dont-tread-on-me/

 

Regarding your last inquiry.  I will make my determination what I am going to do once Carnival resumes cruising.  If my Mardi Gras cruise over Halloween sails, I will more than likely be on it.  If it doesn't sail, it'll get flipped to September of 2022, when the cruising landscape will be much different than it is today.

 

 

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

52 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

This Florida Governor is really starting to do and act out some outlandish things. He is so extremely radical (the wrong way) with his thoughts and applications. We all know that these are not his "Insane" ideas but a "Close Mentor" that also resides in Florida. 

 

My concern is that we all are majority Florida cruisers and/or will be in the near future. I am really concerned for the Citizens and the visitors to that State. This guy acts as if Covid has "Magically Disappeared". It hasn't and as a matter of fact did we not just see where India had the highest number of new cases in a long time? 

 

Maybe some of you Florida Cruise Nuts can help convince your Governor that he needs to be compassionate about all Floridians and also Visitors; not just those who he is counting on for future votes. It's really a sad situation that we all could be risking our health coming to cruise.    

 

Florida voters who may differ with DeSantis are not able to sway his policy, no more than that of his protégé. But that's more so becoming the nature of politics and power.

 

It is what it is, and we're all along for the ride.

 

The thing that really irks me is the way elections/voters are handled by some, again, in power. They do what they have to in order to retain or gain more power for their party. Even if that means working the system - gerrymandering, restricting voting (by numerous means), etc. I mean, if we really can't ensure that everyone can easily vote, then what do we have? Certainly not a core part of what I feel a democracy should be. BTW, voter fraud is mainly a story line scare tactic to justify the means.  😞

 

OK.. off soapbox again!

 

Tom

[OceanZena]

18 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

Many have brought up variants that are indeed staying on topic and I guess since they are slightly outside the myopic view that you have you don't realize it.

Here is a link that will educate you as to what "Don't thread on me" means and how the meaning is still true today just like it was 250 years ago.  You obviously were absent the day your American History teacher taught it.  https://www.dictionary.com/e/pop-culture/dont-tread-on-me/

 

 

 

 

There's no need to be condescending. I know what the saying means. However, I fail to see the correlation between "Don't tread on me" and being hesitant to have an untested shot injected into one's body that no one knows what side effects will come about from it years from now. The two things have absolutely nothing to do with one another.