CDC-update May 5th

[Radiioman46]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

There are CDC "recommendations" for the US, but they have no jurisdiction to mandate anything to an entity like a baseball stadium, since that does not involve either leaving/entering the US, or traveling across state boundaries.

You're right about the their right to mandate vs recommend, but for the cruise lines that have been sailing elsewhere with over 500,000 passengers that have sailed, prove that the CDC guidelines for sailing is full of ....... and is intended to punish the cruise lines as much as possible. 

 

Timing is everything, and just after last week with all the optimism displayed, the following week, the CDC issues these new set of guidelines that prove they are not serious about allowing cruising.   

[kleibo]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

There are CDC "recommendations" for the US, but they have no jurisdiction to mandate anything to an entity like a baseball stadium, since that does not involve either leaving/entering the US, or traveling across state boundaries.

 

Thanks - just a head scratcher that's for sure.  I just don't get it.   I think cruises are getting a bad rap due to early 2020 cruise issues.  We have come a long way since then.  I have one booked in October and another in February.   I may cancel both.  I knew there may be some restrictions, but these are excessive.

[kdr69]

56 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

The fact that they felt like they should actually put that ridiculous statement in writing really tells me all I need to know about the CDC's attitude right now.

you mean like "this coffee is hot and may cause burns" statements?  There are reasons (aka people) for these kind of statements.....just sayin.....

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

you mean like "this coffee is hot and may cause burns" statements?  There are reasons (aka people) for these kind of statements.....just sayin.....

"You can't coach stupid"

[chengkp75]

11 minutes ago, Radiioman46 said:

and is intended to punish the cruise lines as much as possible. 

What is the reason for "punishing" the cruise lines?

[d12j28]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

"You can't coach stupid"

I don't know about that. I've seen some parents doing a pretty good job "coaching" there kids! 

[crazy4themouse]

Texas has officially joined the legal fight:

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/legal-regulatory/texas-files-join-floridas-lawsuit-against-cdc-over-cruise-shutdown

 

 

[BoozinCroozin]

1 hour ago, embarkation75 said:

LOL! You are really putting your hopes in this frivolous suit that has as much chance of doing anything as I do winning the lottery!  Whatever, as I guess it gets you through the down time although you'll likely need some "Boozin" after the 12th passes with nothing changing! 🤣

You obviously have absolutely no clue do you?

 

This is a win-win situation for the cruise lines regardless of the outcome. If FL and Alaska win, then the CSO is gone. Cruise lines can start as soon as the ports can be staffed and their ships to ports. If the CDC wins, then the cruise lines can continue on their merry way with the mid-July agenda. 

 

In the end, the only outcome I would love to see is the CDC put in its place and investigated. They made decisions without data nor facts on publicly traded companies. If any one person profited or prevented loss in the CDC because of those decisions, it is a crime.

[BoozinCroozin]

28 minutes ago, Radiioman46 said:

You're right about the their right to mandate vs recommend, but for the cruise lines that have been sailing elsewhere with over 500,000 passengers that have sailed, prove that the CDC guidelines for sailing is full of ....... and is intended to punish the cruise lines as much as possible. 

 

Timing is everything, and just after last week with all the optimism displayed, the following week, the CDC issues these new set of guidelines that prove they are not serious about allowing cruising.   

It is no coincidence on the timing of the CDC. The change in attitude came within hours of the actual court date in FL. Once the court date was set to May 12th, the CDC took a massive jump back and issued their updated change. They had anticipated it not to head to court so quickly and with a judge that is more aligned with the direction FL and TX are going than the direction of the CDC. They also know if they do lose the case, they won't get a hearing at the FL Supreme Court until after the CSO date of October 31. 

 

I know there are a lot of if's and either side can win. If FL/TX/AK lose the case, then nothing really changes and everything stays as it is. However, if the CDC loses, there will be far reaching impacts, investigations, and committees. Everything they have done within the CDC and personal life will be investigated. The biggest issue they have is their own orders/mandates are not even being followed by the highest levels of government. We can't talk politics here, but you can go look at it yourself online. It is not going to bode well with someone saying "you must do this!" with a picture of our "leaders" doing the exact opposite.

[Buckeyefrank100]

14 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

You won't have to wear in your socially distanced lounge.

 

 

 

Wear to and from the socially distanced tables.

That's not what it said.  In essence, It stated that sitting at a dinner table for the entire service without a mask is a violation of mask rules.

[Buckeyefrank100]

10 hours ago, bdever said:

All of the guidelines released today by the CDC pertain to section 2B of the CSO, which btw, are not required for cruise ship operators planning on sailing with 98% of crew vaxxed and 95% of passengers vaxxed. And these guidelines only pertain to the simulated test sailings. Until Carnival announces if they are going to opt in/out of the simulated sailings, & if opting out, what the restrictions will be for vaxx cruises we can only speculate. 

 

What I find interesting is: "At least one simulation must be conducted for each ship for which the cruise ship operator's application for a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate under the CSO." - So, if Carnival does decide to go with the simulated test cruise route vs.. the vaxxed cruises route it sounds like it would take a long time to get the entire fleet up and running again.

My guess at this point is that Carnival will opt into both.  I think they will open up to vaccinated only cruises to get revenue generation and at the same time begin the test cruise route as well.  The best of both worlds for them.

[harkinmr]

50 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Both.  These are the requirements for "simulated" cruises (those non-revenue test cruises) and for the "restricted" (revenue cruises) that happen either after approved simulated cruises or for vaccinated cruises, that still must meet the CSO requirements.

 

44 minutes ago, Radiioman46 said:

You're right about the their right to mandate vs recommend, but for the cruise lines that have been sailing elsewhere with over 500,000 passengers that have sailed, prove that the CDC guidelines for sailing is full of ....... and is intended to punish the cruise lines as much as possible. 

 

Timing is everything, and just after last week with all the optimism displayed, the following week, the CDC issues these new set of guidelines that prove they are not serious about allowing cruising.   

Nonsense.  The CDC guidelines and protocols are no different than the ones used on the sailings you cite that have gone already. Neither are they different from the protocols being used or required for the vaccinated sailings that will be going from the UK, Greece and Israel.  These protocols are not intended to “punish” the cruise lines.  They are fully in line with those used elsewhere in the world.  

[kleibo]

Yes - I saw that too -   In essence, It stated that sitting at a dinner table for the entire service without a mask is a violation of mask rules.

 

I mean how ridiculous is that - that has not been the case for months anywhere.  And I'm from New Jersey and we've had some of the most strictest restrictions.  Normally you wear the mask as you go into the restaurant and until you get to your table.  I had one instance where we had to wait with our masks on until we had either food or drink in front of us and then it was off for the entire meal.

[tkportersat]

15 hours ago, bucfan2 said:

Wow....for the near future, I think I’m a ‘former cruise addict’.  Until some sanity returns to cruising, I think I’ll check into getting my wisdom teeth pulled (again).

I'm with you, this has gone beyond ridiculous.  If this is the way it is going to be than I am out.  Way out...

[tkportersat]

15 hours ago, joeyancho said:

I don't think the buffets will be eliminated. They just will not be self-service anymore. How are they going to feed everybody without the buffet?  The dining room would have to be nonstop.  Won't work.  

     As for only leaving the ship on carnival excursions,  that's a deal breaker for me.  This is all so stupid.  

Super stupid...people have lost their minds.  

[tkportersat]

14 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

Wearing a mask on the pool deck while sun bathing is ridiculous.  We have a balcony cabin, but the crazy mask rules are making me really think about rescheduling for 2022 in the hopes that sanity will prevail.

Also, people have to wear masks at sit down dinners.  Give me a break.

I'm still waiting to see by my final payment in September but if this is the way it is going to be than I will definitely be canceling my Thanksgiving Cruise.  I've taken 3 vacations since Covid and they were great so I don't need this nonsense in my life. 

[logan25]

Just a thought.  IF buffets are eliminated, MDR-type service will again be open on port days.  That seems like a plus.

[iheartmarshall]

These guidelines are no surprise to me, but I also work in higher education and we've been in a mostly remote/limited on-campus state since March 2020.  We do plan to resume in-person classes this fall but things will be different for a while and it's the same with cruising.  We're still in the middle of a pandemic even though some are "over it" -- but it's far from over.  Get vaccinated, wear a mask, and help us reach the end sooner. 

 

Eventually, we know that cruising will most likely return to how it was.  It may take a couple of years for everything to fall back in place but it will happen.  We've all had to adapt and I understand that all these protocols are in place to protect the public's safety and I'm okay with that.  Things may not be ideal but it's the trade-off to progress back to "normal."  In the meantime, if you're not comfortable cruising with these restrictions then it's simple -- don't cruise. 

[BoozinCroozin]

If you have food or drink at your table, you ARE actively eating or drinking. Are the CDC Security going to sit next to everyone and watch them pull the mask down, take a drink and immediately pull it up? No!

 

This is why it is recommended by realists to always have water with you. You are actively drinking it and it cannot be argued either way. Restaurants here had water at the table upon seating. You are immediately consuming and thus no mask.

[Radiioman46]

11 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

 

Nonsense.  The CDC guidelines and protocols are no different than the ones used on the sailings you cite that have gone already. Neither are they different from the protocols being used or required for the vaccinated sailings that will be going from the UK, Greece and Israel.  These protocols are not intended to “punish” the cruise lines.  They are fully in line with those used elsewhere in the world.  

Not true. NCL just stated that they will not require passengers to take ship sponsored excursions to get off the ship. Plus, on those cruises ppl don't have to stay masked while sitting at their dinner tables in the MDR, plus they don't use the grab n go at the buffets. Their buffets are set up where the hosts hands the food to the passengers behind a glass screen. I'm assuming (may be wrong) that what they mean be grab n go is what we are seeing here in hotel suites.  

[tkportersat]

1 hour ago, nae418 said:

I 100% agree! I along with the 33 of us that was going will also happily sit out. I'm a Platinum Guest and love all the perks that come with cruising and being Platinum.  Your right, this doesn't sound like cruising or a vacation. 

We have some first timers in our group that was looking for some fun. I would prefer they happily sit out as they're really not going to get the fun they were looking for. 

We had our October 31, 2020 Mardi Gras cruise cancel and we got 25% off the next cruise and $250 OBC. Just don't know if that offer will expire, hope we can use it in 2023 if we have to re-book August 7th Cruise.  

Yep, I would rather fill up an inflatable pool in my backyard with a tub of beer nearby then cruise under these conditions. 

[bdever]

4 hours ago, regoodwinjr said:

The guidelines were issued for both the simulated cruises and the restricted cruises so the restrictions apply to even vaccinated cruises after restart.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing the link to the operation manual. I did not know this was also released yesterday as well. Now the reference to “grab and go” meals is clear. 
With that being said there is a marked distinction in the manual between “required” guidelines and “recommended” guidelines. 
 

[ninjacat123]

2 minutes ago, bdever said:

Thank you for sharing the link to the operation manual. I did not know this was also released yesterday as well. Now the reference to “grab and go” meals is clear. 
With that being said there is a marked distinction in the manual between “required” guidelines and “recommended” guidelines. 
 

At this time, all persons, including port personnel, crew, and passengers (including those that are fully vaccinated) are advised that CDC’s Mask Order remains in effect and requires the wearing of masks on conveyances entering, traveling within or leaving the United States, and in U.S. transportation hubs (see Maritime-specific Frequently Asked Questions).

 

Does this constitute "requirred" or "recommended" ?  Thx!

[tkportersat]

5 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

If you have food or drink at your table, you ARE actively eating or drinking. Are the CDC Security going to sit next to everyone and watch them pull the mask down, take a drink and immediately pull it up? No!

 

This is why it is recommended by realists to always have water with you. You are actively drinking it and it cannot be argued either way. Restaurants here had water at the table upon seating. You are immediately consuming and thus no mask.

This is what I did at the Rangers Game this week actually,  I was actively eating and drinking the whole time I was there 😆

[cruisingguy007]

1 hour ago, kleibo said:

Aren't there current CDC guidelines for the entire USA right now and the Texas rangers had 40,000 at their home opener - side by side - thousands not wearing masks.  It seems very unfair that the CDC can put these crazy guidelines in place just for Cruises.

 

https://abc13.com/texas-rangers-globe-life-park-mandates-no-in/10488577/#:~:text=Due to the state of,the full 40%2C000-fan capacity.   

 

Should be the same in Florida ball parks, stadiums, concerts, and social venues soon now that they have also declared protections/rules invalid and fully opened up. If FL and TX have all these events and not many problems, it will set a fire under the rear ends of citizens of all the other states and make all these rules look ridiculous. (In my best game of thrones voice) Midterms are coming! This will either be political genius or political disaster. The tyrants are hoping for the latter and nervously sitting by sweating and biting their nails.