So the CDC have backed down

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Just curious how the vaccinated person inputs the vaccine information to this Excelsior Pass. Can NY residents submit their filled out CDC card as proof of vaccination when registering for the Excelsior Pass? 

Every state but one (IIRC New Hampshire is the exception)  has a centralized state vaccine data base, called an IIS...immunization information system . Your COVID vaccination record should be available in that database.

[Notnewtoit]

Well there's a thing, the CDC are slowly winding back restrictions as situations improve/stabilize, whodathunkit... Yes its slow, yes it isn't always logical... yes it's like any other government department I ever met. Good news is, it's good news, likelihood is we take two steps forward, one back and so forth; such is the very nature of the human condition.

[lepidoptera]

4 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Just curious how the vaccinated person inputs the vaccine information to this Excelsior Pass. Can NY residents submit their filled out CDC card as proof of vaccination when registering for the Excelsior Pass? 

I just got mine set up last week. It fairly simple: down load the Excelsior app and then go to the Excelsior website and put in your name, date of birth and zip code. Then the app asked me what day I got my second shot, what county I got it in and what type of shot I got. No card required. It compares the info I gave it with the info that was reported to the state and then it generates a pass that I can store in the app and in my apple wallet. So the app doesn’t have any private health info stored on it. The vaccine pass is good for 3 months, and after that I can go back to the site and generate a new vaccine pass. 

 

The excelsior pass also can be used with Rapid and PCR tests, but I haven’t had to do that yet. When I go to things like the baseball game I am going next week, they scan your pass and then check the name and DOB that registers on their scanner against your picture id. 

[BermudaBound2014]

2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Then I guess "Naive" is my middle name. Don't advertise a 100% vaccinated ship and not produce the product you advertised. I naively think NCL will find a way to verify vaccination status for every single person that boards their ships when cruising starts back up.

 

I suppose Naive isn't the worst middle name you could have.

 

For the summer cruises from Jamaica and the DR, I strongly believe NCL will require passengers to take a photo and upload their CDC vaccine certificate. We already know that there are millions of counterfeit certs that have flooded the market. The question is, how to verify authenticity? 

 

Let me guess, you are also naive enough to believe that someone seeking a counterfeit vaccination card won't board a cruise ship for fear of some type of punishment from the US government while in a foreign country? Who is going to do the punishing? Jamaican authorities? DR Authorities? Unrealistic.

 

With all that said, I think the best we can hope for is that there won't be enough counterfeit cards onboard to create an outbreak. After all, MSC has been sailing successfully and they don't even require vaccination. 

 

BTW: I'm all for 100% vaccinations required to restart. I do think this is the best way to resume cruising safely. We need to get this right.  However; I do think it rather absurd to believe that NCL can get the technology in place in the next few months to verify all cards (especially with entry from a foreign port). 

 

I will revisit this exact thread with the first NCL sailings from Jamaica and the DR to see to what degree NCL has been able to  "verify vaccination status for every single person that boards." I will be shocked if they do anything more than require a vaccine card photo to be uploaded to the system. If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow. 

 

 

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Every state but one (IIRC New Hampshire is the exception)  has a centralized state vaccine data base, called an IIS...immunization information system . Your COVID vaccination record should be available in that database.

Thank you. I will look into that.

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Every state but one (IIRC New Hampshire is the exception)  has a centralized state vaccine data base, called an IIS...immunization information system . Your COVID vaccination record should be available in that database.

Thank you for this information.

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, lepidoptera said:

I just got mine set up last week. It fairly simple: down load the Excelsior app and then go to the Excelsior website and put in your name, date of birth and zip code. Then the app asked me what day I got my second shot, what county I got it in and what type of shot I got. No card required. It compares the info I gave it with the info that was reported to the state and then it generates a pass that I can store in the app and in my apple wallet. So the app doesn’t have any private health info stored on it. The vaccine pass is good for 3 months, and after that I can go back to the site and generate a new vaccine pass. 

 

The excelsior pass also can be used with Rapid and PCR tests, but I haven’t had to do that yet. When I go to things like the baseball game I am going next week, they scan your pass and then check the name and DOB that registers on their scanner against your picture id. 

Great information. Thanks.

[debenson0723]

5 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Every state but one (IIRC New Hampshire is the exception)  has a centralized state vaccine data base, called an IIS...immunization information system . Your COVID vaccination record should be available in that database.

Thank you for this information.  I just went to my States health site, registered and got a print out of all of my vaccines with date given...covid, shingles, flu, etc.  Would be somewhat hard for someone to fake this information when presented with my passport.

[StackSkipton]

My guess is Norwegian will take the cards and not really verify it. There isn't a real reason to do so, if you are vaccinated, getting disease poses very little risk to you if you get it at all. 

 

Also, NCL will likely point this out but these records are likely to be part of official records submitted to various government agencies both foreign and American. If it ever came out someone was lying, government could likely consider the same if you had lied on customs form. Few people dragged off the boat in foreign port for immigration violation (lying about vaccination status) could clear up those problems quickly.

 

I do agree the mask requirement needs to go. It's pointless and with CDC guidance, makes little sense. It's also why I refuse to book a cruise, I'm waiting for it to go, I'll vacation elsewhere until then.

[Fabulous97]

In the U.K. we have the NHS (National Health Service) app to show your vaccinations. The cards are not worth the paper they are written on. The app holds all your medical records, you can use it to order repeat prescriptions, contact your Dr etc. There is talk of a European wide app however the U.K. is no longer part of Europe. We are well ahead with our vaccinations programme. Still masks for all here as well.

[graphicguy]

On 5/13/2021 at 5:02 PM, njhorseman said:

Every state but one (IIRC New Hampshire is the exception)  has a centralized state vaccine data base, called an IIS...immunization information system . Your COVID vaccination record should be available in that database.

Thank you!  That's outstanding.  Actually registered my info at the site, too.

[BermudaBound2014]

On 5/13/2021 at 4:34 PM, coffeebean said:

Then I guess "Naive" is my middle name. Don't advertise a 100% vaccinated ship and not produce the product you advertised. I naively think NCL will find a way to verify vaccination status for every single person that boards their ships when cruising starts back up.

 

You already know I respectfully disagree with this statement and believe that all that will be required is to show (or upload) a CDC vaccine card to sail NCL during the initial restart phase (maybe even less requirements after cruising resumes fully). But I came across new information (to me) this morning as I was looking at other cruise lines.

 

I though you may find this interesting. Royal Carribbean already has policy in place that the CDC vaccine card is all that is required. They even go further and state that Electronic Vaccination records will not be accepted for US citizens by default (since USA does not have electronic documentation as the standard issue form).

 

 

I've read a bit on the electronic vaccination records and it appears they come with a slew of problems too, including, but not limited to, fake apps which look exactly like the real deal. This is probably why Royal is not accepting electronic verification at this time. 

 

I don't believe NCL will use a robust method to "find a way to verify vaccination for every single person that boards their ships" Unless they are miles ahead of Royal Caribbean, I think the policy is simply going to be to show the CDC card (either upload before hand or show at boarding).

 

Don't get me wrong. I believe that the amount of people boarding initial sailings with false verification will be minimal enough to prevent an outbreak, but there are many members of the CC forum who continue to state they will ONLY cruise on NCL because 100% of the passengers are vaccinated. Those guests should understand that there are no guarantees this early in the sailing process; especially for those sailings originating in DR and Jamaica.

 

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/do-i-need-a-covid-vaccine-to-cruise-what-counts-as-proof

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by BermudaBound2014

[happy cruzer]

So will it matter if the vaccine is JnJ vs. one or two of the Moderna or Pfizier?  Big difference in immunity. 

 

The devil is in the details.  Probably will still need to test before travel?

[BermudaBound2014]

20 minutes ago, happy cruzer said:

So will it matter if the vaccine is JnJ vs. one or two of the Moderna or Pfizier?  Big difference in immunity. 

 

The devil is in the details.  Probably will still need to test before travel?

 

Right now it appears most places that are are requiring vaccination are accepting records from any company listed as accepted by WHO. While the USA has only offered emergency use to 3 companies, there are 4 (5?) additional vaccines widely being used. 

 

I think the booster requirement is going to be very interesting. Both moderno and pfizer have stated that a booster is likely between 6 and 12 months. The CDC director has agreed. If you got your vaccine early in the process you could be up for a booster before your ships sails. University of Michigan is already making a plan for how to administer booster vaccines to members of the surgical teams since they were first to receive. 

 

It's a mess. And fluid. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by BermudaBound2014

[ChutChut]

1 hour ago, happy cruzer said:

So will it matter if the vaccine is JnJ vs. one or two of the Moderna or Pfizier?  Big difference in immunity. 

 

The devil is in the details.  Probably will still need to test before travel?

Actually, there isn't a big difference in immunity as the JnJ trials were done later and addressed Covid variants - neither Moderna nor Pfizer addressed variants. So if you eliminate the variants, the vaccines are pretty much equal.

[ChutChut]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

You already know I respectfully disagree with this statement and believe that all that will be required is to show (or upload) a CDC vaccine card to sail NCL during the initial restart phase (maybe even less requirements after cruising resumes fully). But I came across new information (to me) this morning as I was looking at other cruise lines.

 

I though you may find this interesting. Royal Carribbean already has policy in place that the CDC vaccine card is all that is required. They even go further and state that Electronic Vaccination records will not be accepted for US citizens by default (since USA does not have electronic documentation as the standard issue form).

 

 

I've read a bit on the electronic vaccination records and it appears they come with a slew of problems too, including, but not limited to, fake apps which look exactly like the real deal. This is probably why Royal is not accepting electronic verification at this time. 

 

I don't believe NCL will use a robust method to "find a way to verify vaccination for every single person that boards their ships" Unless they are miles ahead of Royal Caribbean, I think the policy is simply going to be to show the CDC card (either upload before hand or show at boarding).

 

Don't get me wrong. I believe that the amount of people boarding initial sailings with false verification will be minimal enough to prevent an outbreak, but there are many members of the CC forum who continue to state they will ONLY cruise on NCL because 100% of the passengers are vaccinated. Those guests should understand that there are no guarantees this early in the sailing process; especially for those sailings originating in DR and Jamaica.

 

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/do-i-need-a-covid-vaccine-to-cruise-what-counts-as-proof

 

 

True - also those of us who are vaccinated can still be infected and become sick with Covid.

[BermudaBound2014]

29 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

True - also those of us who are vaccinated can still be infected and become sick with Covid.

I believe that the injection does  provide enough immunity that those vaccinated should feel safe from covid. It seems to me that the greater risk of ships without 💯 vaccination is an interruption to the sailing (return to home port, quarantined to room, etc...). 
 

 

[IrieBajan54]

21 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I believe that the injection does  provide enough immunity that those vaccinated should feel safe from covid. It seems to me that the greater risk of ships without 💯 vaccination is an interruption to the sailing (return to home port, quarantined to room, etc...). 
 

 

Or home port refuses to let you dock, so ship is stranded at sea.

[zerooveride]

59 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

True - also those of us who are vaccinated can still be infected and become sick with Covid.

Just look at what is happening with the New York Yankees. 9 positives among fully vaccinated individuals. I believe they all received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. Also 1 player, who previously had COVID and had received the vaccine, tested positive. Good news is that only one person had minor symptoms and the rest were all asymptomatic. 

[coffeebean]

On 5/16/2021 at 3:23 PM, ChutChut said:

Actually, there isn't a big difference in immunity as the JnJ trials were done later and addressed Covid variants - neither Moderna nor Pfizer addressed variants. So if you eliminate the variants, the vaccines are pretty much equal.

Everything I'm reading though claims the mRNA vaccines are protective for the variants that so far have come from mutations. Have you heard or read differently?

 

In fact, the mRNA vaccines have performed even better in real life than the trials efficacy rates and that includes the variants that are circulating out there. I have read that real life efficiency of the mRNA vaccines are somewhere in the 98% to 99% efficiency real life percentage. I am truly encouraged by what the data is showing how these mRNA vaccines are performing.

[BermudaBound2014]

2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Everything I'm reading though claims the mRNA vaccines are protective for the variants that so far have come from mutations. Have you heard or read differently?

 

The data I"m reading is suggesting that the booster is the current wild card. No one knows or can pin point how long any of the vaccine lasts and it seems to be different for different people. I've read cases where it only lasts 6 months in some individuals. This could explain the Yankees. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by BermudaBound2014

[njhorseman]

1 minute ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

The data I"m reading is suggesting that the booster is the current wild card. No one knows can pin point long any of the vaccine lasts and it seems to be different for different people. It only lasts 6 months in some individuals. This could explain the Yankees. 

Since the J&J vaccine was granted EUA less than 3 months ago, on February 27,  I doubt the Yankees' situation can be blamed on the vaccine's effectiveness having declined substantially since their immunization. Remember that the efficacy of the J&J vaccine was 66.3%, substantially less than  the two mRNA vaccines that are in the high 90's, so there is  meaningfully higher chance of becoming infected after receiving J&J versus the mRNAs . 

All but one of the infected Yankees were asymptomatic and the other was only mildly symptomatic. Under normal circumstances no one would know the asymptomatic Yankees were infected, which actually shows the vaccine is doing its job because it's preventing serious illness even if you become infected. MLB players and on field staff are tested at least every other day, so if someone does have an asymptomatic infection it's going to be seen quickly in the testing while the average person could be walking around with an asymptomatic infection and no one would ever know because there would be no reason for that person to be tested.

[BermudaBound2014]

3 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Since the J&J vaccine was granted EUA less than 3 months ago, on February 27,  I doubt the Yankees' situation can be blamed on the vaccine's effectiveness having declined substantially since their immunization. Remember that the efficacy of the J&J vaccine was 66.3%, substantially less than  the two mRNA vaccines that are in the high 90's, so there is  meaningfully higher chance of becoming infected after receiving J&J versus the mRNAs . 

All but one of the infected Yankees were asymptomatic and the other was only mildly symptomatic. Under normal circumstances no one would know the asymptomatic Yankees were infected, which actually shows the vaccine is doing its job because it's preventing serious illness even if you become infected. MLB players and on field staff are tested at least every other day, so if someone does have an asymptomatic infection it's going to be seen quickly in the testing while the average person could be walking around with an asymptomatic infection and no one would ever know because there would be no reason for that person to be tested.

 

Thank you! I did not realize the Yankees all used J&J.

 

I do agree with you, if we keep testing everyone all the time we are going to get these false positive reports. It's unavoidable 😞

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Thank you! I did not realize the Yankees all used J&J.

 

I do agree with you, if we keep testing everyone all the time we are going to get these false positive reports. It's unavoidable 😞

I wouldn't call them false positives because the test results are accurate. It's just that MLB and other professional sports have been forced to adopt very strict protocols that  aren't appropriate or meaningful for the average person, in order to prevent the rapid spread of the virus through the teams. The players, coaches and support staff are in such close contact for months on end that a COVID outbreak could develop so quickly that it would be devastating to a sports team. 

[BermudaBound2014]

47 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

I wouldn't call them false positives because the test results are accurate. It's just that MLB and other professional sports have been forced to adopt very strict protocols that  aren't appropriate or meaningful for the average person, in order to prevent the rapid spread of the virus through the teams. The players, coaches and support staff are in such close contact for months on end that a COVID outbreak could develop so quickly that it would be devastating to a sports team. 

You are right- false positive was the wrong term. Is there a term for asymptotic and vaccinated (as opposed to asymptotic and not vaccinated?)

 

I read ncl was going to be testing at each port. If so, does that mean there will be a lot of chances for positive results  just like the Yankees?