Per Michael Bayley, Some CSO Updates

[logan25]

27 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Question. Is Texas being honest about the Covid death toll?

The number of cases and fatalities is typically lower on Sunday, so that at least follows the pattern I have seen for months.  As for data validity, well, it would have to be collusion of 254 counties which stretches credibility.

 

What is your opinion of the UK data?

Edited May 18, 2021 by logan25

[At Sea At Peace]

27 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Question. Is Texas being honest about the Covid death toll?

 

It is believed to be such.  They aren't using the same consultants that conducted the NY nursing home death toll data.  😲

[At Sea At Peace]

I wonder what impact, if any, the UK's recently noted increased effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine by three and a half times (3.5X) when the 2nd dose is 12 weeks spaced versus the 21-days will have on the allowances or classification of passengers as "fully vaccinated?"

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/may/14/delay-in-giving-second-jabs-of-pfizer-vaccine-improves-immunity

 

 

[ace2542]

5 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

I wonder what impact, if any, the UK's recently noted increased effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine by three and a half times (3.5X) when the 2nd dose is 12 weeks spaced versus the 21-days will have on the allowances or classification of passengers as "fully vaccinated?"

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/may/14/delay-in-giving-second-jabs-of-pfizer-vaccine-improves-immunity

 

 

Deaths are usually in the single figures to teen figures now. I suspect cases have dropped as a result of the spread time and increase of people getting first shot before people getting second. The Indian variant is moving quickly though but will likely not pose a problem.

Edited May 18, 2021 by ace2542

[smokeybandit]

17 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

The Indian variant is moving quickly though but will likely not pose a problem.

 

Just like every other variant that they've tried to scare us with

[BecciBoo]

6 hours ago, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

then don't bother posting on a discussion-based forum.

I am reporting this comment which is totally out of line.  He has as much right to post his comments as you do no matter where he is getting his information or whether it is scientifically viable.  It is perfectly allowable for him to disagree with your agenda on any forum.

 

Those  who criticize just because someone disagrees with them is getting old.  I have my opinion, you have yours, there is no higher authority, especially with this pandemic who is the judge of anything.  You may advocate anything you want, but leave others to accept it or not without scathing remarks.  That is only fair.  And just because I point that out doesn't make me a "miserable human being"...as someone said.  You could be kind.... 

 

We've had our share of Covid in my family, and we've all been vaccinated as well, but he should be let alone to post whatever he pleases.  There are other points of view, doesn't make them wrong.

[jrapps]

55 minutes ago, BecciBoo said:

Those  who criticize just because someone disagrees with them is getting old. 

Very well said. This forum can get too hot sometimes.

 

One thing we all lose sight of is we all want to get back on a cruise ship. Despite political or ideological differences, we are kindred spirits.

[BecciBoo]

Yes, I think all of us are just sick (excuse pun) and tired of Covid and the last year.  Shortens tempers, I know it has mine.  Saw a story this morning about another major fight on board a plane, flyer hit an attendant in the face and tried to open the door.  Can't we just all be friends.  OR...live and let live.😇

[BecciBoo]

Just another comment and I'll let the pony wonder off...My professor in a college course taught the "one up one down" tenant of Psychology that says... Humanity has a driven need to be one up, this means the person you're interacting with has got to be one down.  I really think it's true.  It drives all our relationships, true unselfishness is very hard to adapt.  It makes us strive to be right all the time so someone else has got to be put down.  So something you say has to be proven right no matter the cost.  It brings out the defensiveness in everybody.  I try to remember that....but...then here comes a world wide pandemic....👿

[RedIguana]

On 5/16/2021 at 4:17 PM, orville99 said:

You might consider joining the 21st century, rather than spending your life tethered to a dinosaur PC tower. If you have a router connected to your phone line, then you probably already have everything you need to use an iPad, which BTW can be configured with a keyboard and a wireless mouse (mine is) so it functions just like your tower - just does it anywhere you happen to be whenever you happen to want to use it.

I spend my life tethered to a "dinosaur" PC tower. My GPU alone will melt that iPad. To me, an iPad is a toy to check mail and get on the internet. I assume they meant Modem and not router from their description. Their modem may not even have wireless (mine does not, no reason for a wireless modem when I have a fairly high end router).  I have a wired modem with a router that has wireless. I hardwire my internet connection, much less latency and interference than wireless. Wireless is fine for the laptops for school and light work, not so much for my uses. I'll use a wireless mouse for my laptop, but not on my "dinosaur" rig. "Dinosaur" rig is fully wired. Tablets, whether android or Fruit, have their uses. For many users they function perfectly for their needs. But you don't need one to join the 21st century.

I would suggest that if they want to dip their toes into tablets, they start with a relatively inexpensive 8" (or 10") one, not jump into the apple environment. 

     

[BecciBoo]

I have all the toys, but only use them to read books, I am old and need a 27'' monitor!  I can't even use my phone to surf net, tooooo itsy bitsy....love my desk PC😄

[RedIguana]

2 minutes ago, BecciBoo said:

I have all the toys, but only use them to read books, I am old and need a 27'' monitor!  I can't even use my phone to surf net, tooooo itsy bitsy....love my desk PC😄

My main monitor is 27" curved. Nice comfy chair that reclines.  Doesn't seem like much of a difference at first, but you can really tell the difference using a flat screen after using a curved for a while. Great for watching movies etc. My secondary is an older 17" that fits under one of my side shelves. Still ok for watching TV on when using main screen for other tasks, but mainly use for voice or secondary browser. Tablets do occupy a niche for web surfing just for us older folks who prefer a larger screen than a phone.  But even my 17.3 " gaming laptop is a serious step down from my "dinosaur" tower.

[SidneyHuff1950]

10 hours ago, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

 

Stating that you're not getting vaccinated after having gotten the virus because "there is no medical or scientific reason to" can be read as a recommendation for people having already recovered from the virus. It's also blatant misinformation.

 

Oh, you're not going to "do" my research? If you're going to bury your head in the sand and say that the wave isn't coming because you can't see it, then don't bother posting on a discussion-based forum.

 

Also, to comment on the research you cited, just because the immune systems of recovered people have "durable memories" of the virus, it doesn't mean that they are just as protected from the virus as fully vaccinated people. I have already provided you an article (which you refuse to engage with) that's significantly more recent that illustrates this point.

 

 

Where have I put words in your mouth? Your "facts" aren't actually facts, let's get that straight. You have stated multiple times that there is no medical reason for you to get vaccinated, but a lie spoken multiple times doesn't make it any more true. In fact, I think you may be a victim of the Illusory Truth Effect. You have convinced yourself of your own misinformation due to the fact that you keep repeating it to yourself and to others. Period.

 

I would love to know where you're getting your numbers.

 

Why should I care if I'm vaccinated? I care that people on this forum aren't being exposed to intentional lies by people like yourself. I have no problem with you choosing to not get vaccinated; that is your right and decision. It is also your right and decision to not post false information, and that's what I have a problem with. I expect people to criticize me if I'm posting false information about the vaccine (e.g., I claimed the COVID vaccines gave you superpowers). 

 

Also, where am I making your medical decisions for you? Funny coming from someone that's claiming I'm putting words in their mouth.

 

The irony here is that you are making your life decisions with misinformation, which is arguably worse than feelings. At least feelings and instincts have contributed to our survival as a species. Maybe you should reconsider your decision-making process.

 

Whoa son, you gotta calm down there a little. This is just a message board.

 

Sidney

[Wolfie56]

HELP ME DECIDE!
Do I want my lemon drop martini with Gray Goose or Tito’s? 
 

Or do I want a Dirty Martini with stuffed blue cheese olives??

[wolfganghowell]

"Interesting fact, during the vaccine trials, they found that smokers and people taking steroids did not get the virus. It was an environment the virus did not like."

 

COMPLETELY untrue. WTH

 

"I guess you should go down to the neighborhood bar tonight and have a party to celebrate."

 

Yep, we will.  Because we've been partially open since June and fully open a few months. The Texas economy will survive.  Let's see how NY and CA do.  Oh wait, they're all moving to Texas and Florida these days.  Life is about choices.  All we can do is protect ourselves with our own choices.  If you choose not to get vaccinated, then hey, roll the dice and possibly get sick. We were extremely careful yet I had covid last fall, I had antibodies, I got vaccinated.  I wore a mask until told it was unnecessary, I wear one where it's still required.  I hope the cruise lines continue to enforce 95% vaccinated passengers because it's not fair for someone's "choice" to bring about the utter destruction of an entire industry.  Cruises need to sail safely!

[BOOKBOOKBOOK]

6 hours ago, BecciBoo said:

I am reporting this comment which is totally out of line.  He has as much right to post his comments as you do no matter where he is getting his information or whether it is scientifically viable.  It is perfectly allowable for him to disagree with your agenda on any forum.

 

Those  who criticize just because someone disagrees with them is getting old.  I have my opinion, you have yours, there is no higher authority, especially with this pandemic who is the judge of anything.  You may advocate anything you want, but leave others to accept it or not without scathing remarks.  That is only fair.  And just because I point that out doesn't make me a "miserable human being"...as someone said.  You could be kind.... 

 

We've had our share of Covid in my family, and we've all been vaccinated as well, but he should be let alone to post whatever he pleases.  There are other points of view, doesn't make them wrong.

 

While I agree with you that I may have been out of line with that jab, I disagree with the premise that someone who isn't willing to discuss and consider other people's viewpoint (or spreads misinformation) has just as much of right as anyone to post on a discussion-based forum.

 

I have no problem with him discussing his views which I disagree with (I've said this multiple times in past posts), but what I do have a problem with is him making blanket statements like "there's zero medical or scientific reason for people already infected with COVID-19 to get the vaccine." Statements like these made with zero evidence have zero place here unless they were made as an honest mistake. I feel like I don't belong on a forum if I'm unironically (and without satire) misrepresenting facts about the vaccines (e.g, they give you superpowers, they give you free 5G, etc.). Vaccines aside, if I was spreading lies about any particular cruise line (e.g., the Allure got amplified, trust me guys, I saw it happen with my own eyes), I also feel that content doesn't belong here.

 

From a free speech standpoint, I agree that he has the right to say whatever he wants, even misinformation, but this is a discussion-based forum where it would be out of line for him to say "I'm not going to engage with your sources/reasoning, I'm just going to continue spreading my non-facts." I feel from an etiquette standpoint, a line has to be drawn, and this individual has crossed this line multiple times.

 

That's terrible that someone called you a "miserable human being" for simply stating your opinion. That's out of line. I would expect someone to call me out if I did something similar to another poster.

[jpurdy]

1 minute ago, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

 

While I agree with you that I may have been out of line with that jab, I disagree with the premise that someone who isn't willing to discuss and consider other people's viewpoint (or spreads misinformation) has just as much of right as anyone to post on a discussion-based forum.

 

I have no problem with him discussing his views which I disagree with (I've said this multiple times in past posts), but what I do have a problem with is him making blanket statements like "there's zero medical or scientific reason for people already infected with COVID-19 to get the vaccine." Statements like these made with zero evidence have zero place here unless they were made as an honest mistake. I feel like I don't belong on a forum if I'm unironically (and without satire) misrepresenting facts about the vaccines (e.g, they give you superpowers, they give you free 5G, etc.). Vaccines aside, if I was spreading lies about any particular cruise line (e.g., the Allure got amplified, trust me guys, I saw it happen with my own eyes), I also feel that content doesn't belong here.

 

From a free speech standpoint, I agree that he has the right to say whatever he wants, even misinformation, but this is a discussion-based forum where it would be out of line for him to say "I'm not going to engage with your sources/reasoning, I'm just going to continue spreading my non-facts." I feel from an etiquette standpoint, a line has to be drawn, and this individual has crossed this line multiple times.

 

That's terrible that someone called you a "miserable human being" for simply stating your opinion. That's out of line. I would expect someone to call me out if I did something similar to another poster.

 

 You are sick of the distortions. I am too.  The pandemic is revealing the best and worst in people. Exposing a lie is the right thing to do. 

[ONECRUISER]

23 hours ago, dswallow said:

 

I know people love to call it an "unapproved" vaccine but in reality that's not what it is, and the difference between the emergency approval and final approval are really minimal, especially considering how long it's been since that emergency approval began, and the studies that have been released in the interim. It's really what I call a false flag claim at this point.

Emergency Use Authorization for Vaccines Explained | FDA

What difference would full FDA approval make for COVID-19 vaccines? - Poynter

Though only EUA is enough reason that it isn't Mandated with so many able to decline including over 30% US Military and 40% Marines. This along with Many in Medical Fields, some high as 35%+. Just glad were on downside, all in my Family except my Grand Daughters are Vaccinated...

[smokeybandit]

This was added today. So if the local authority wants no part of a shore agreement, the cruise line doesn't need one? This could help speed things up.

 

What if a cruise ship operator is unable to document the approval of all local health authorities for a Phase 2A port agreement?

In lieu of documenting the approval of all local health authorities of jurisdiction, the cruise ship operator may instead submit to CDC a signed statement from a local health authority, on the health authority’s official letterhead, indicating that the health authority has declined to participate in deliberations and/or sign the Phase 2A port agreement, i.e., a “Statement of Non-Participation.”

[not-enough-cruising]

10 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

This was added today. So if the local authority wants no part of a shore agreement, the cruise line doesn't need one? This could help speed things up.

 

What if a cruise ship operator is unable to document the approval of all local health authorities for a Phase 2A port agreement?

In lieu of documenting the approval of all local health authorities of jurisdiction, the cruise ship operator may instead submit to CDC a signed statement from a local health authority, on the health authority’s official letterhead, indicating that the health authority has declined to participate in deliberations and/or sign the Phase 2A port agreement, i.e., a “Statement of Non-Participation.”

It couldn’t be that simple? Could it? 

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

It couldn’t be that simple? Could it? 

It does seem too easy. But it's kind of a win-win. CDC doesn't "change" their CSO, just offers an interpretation.

 

 

[Tree_skier]

19 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

This was added today. So if the local authority wants no part of a shore agreement, the cruise line doesn't need one? This could help speed things up.

 

What if a cruise ship operator is unable to document the approval of all local health authorities for a Phase 2A port agreement?

In lieu of documenting the approval of all local health authorities of jurisdiction, the cruise ship operator may instead submit to CDC a signed statement from a local health authority, on the health authority’s official letterhead, indicating that the health authority has declined to participate in deliberations and/or sign the Phase 2A port agreement, i.e., a “Statement of Non-Participation.”

They’re  literally changing the rules on a daily basis now. We will be cruising by fall at the latest. You can stick a fork in it, I think the CDC CSO is done. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Tree_skier

[Jeremiah1212]

Indoor mask requirement should be dropped from the CSO technical guidelines this week. 

 

👍

[Tree_skier]

They are neutering the guidelines one line item at a time. Every day it’s something new that they backed up on.

 

thank God this is all about science and there’s no politics in this at all. 

[sandebeach]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

This was added today. So if the local authority wants no part of a shore agreement, the cruise line doesn't need one? This could help speed things up.

 

What if a cruise ship operator is unable to document the approval of all local health authorities for a Phase 2A port agreement?

In lieu of documenting the approval of all local health authorities of jurisdiction, the cruise ship operator may instead submit to CDC a signed statement from a local health authority, on the health authority’s official letterhead, indicating that the health authority has declined to participate in deliberations and/or sign the Phase 2A port agreement, i.e., a “Statement of Non-Participation.”

I can not believe it would be this simple?