An Issue with Celebrity’s Plan?

[cscurlock]

7 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I definitely think there is just some grandstanding/campaigning going on here. When DeSantis sued the CDC in an effort to get cruising started back up again, it would look pretty bad long-term if it the CDC has cleared cruises and HE is the roadblock to the actual resumption of cruising.

I believe that at the end of the day the cruise lines know what they are doing.  I'm pretty sure their lawyers have been advised and they are proceeding down the path which goes against the Florida state law.  The law only applies to Florida state residents and I'm pretty sure the cruise contract will state that your cruise reservation will be cancelled if you don't provide vaccination status to be reviewed 2 weeks before your cruise begins.  

[Fouremco]

30 minutes ago, bajathree said:

What's being released from Celebrity is in direct contrast to what is being released by DeSantis's office. So either a deal is already in works behind the scenes and DeSantis is just grandstanding or Celebrity doesn't know what they r doing. I would have to believe that when Celebrity is telling everyone that they are sailing starting Jun 26 and that you need to be vaccinated and things will be worked out with the governor.....they are in the know.

I'll go with option 1. 😇

[songbird1329]

DeSantis is grandstanding 

[Straughn]

I am a Florida resident and I support may things DeSantis has done for our state. The whole not allowing a business to require proof of vaccination is a clear case of “ready, fire, aim.”  The Governor wasn’t thinking about it’s impact on the cruise industry. It was aimed at protecting Floridians from having to show proof of vaccination every place they went- stores, restaurants, work, offices, etc. He is now between a rock and a hard place. He either has to eat a lot of crow, which, in some ways he is already choking on, or find a way to exempt the cruise lines. I am, in no way, an expert on international transportation law and maritime law. Why, if he could point to one or more of those laws, requirements, etc. to get out of this gracefully, hasn’ t he done that?

Edited May 30, 2021 by Straughn

[cscurlock]

8 minutes ago, Straughn said:

I am a Florida resident and I support may things DeSantis has done for our state. The whole not allowing a business to require proof of vaccination is a clear case of “ready, fire, aim.”  The Governor wasn’t thinking about it’s impact on the cruise industry. It was aimed at protecting Floridians from having to show proof of vaccination every place they went- stores, restaurants, work, offices, etc. He is now between a rock and a hard place. He either has to eat a lot of crow, which, in some ways he is already choking on, or find a way to exempt the cruise lines. I am, in no way, an expert on international transportation law and maritime law. Why, if he could point to one or more of those laws, requirements, etc. to get out of this gracefully, hasn’ t he done that?

I think it won't really matter.  Royal/Celebrity has basically stated that they are going to do it.  They will take it to court and it will be found unconstitutional due to the commerce clause.  They just built that new terminal in Miami that was like 266 million.  Usually you don't put that kind of money into a terminal unless your lawyers have stipulated an out to get that money back from these kind of situations.  Why would Port Everglades agree to a port agreement knowing that the cruise lines are going to require vaccinations that go again the state law?  Hmmm I wonder.  

[Babr]

33 minutes ago, Straughn said:

I am a Florida resident and I support may things DeSantis has done for our state. The whole not allowing a business to require proof of vaccination is a clear case of “ready, fire, aim.”  The Governor wasn’t thinking about it’s impact on the cruise industry. It was aimed at protecting Floridians from having to show proof of vaccination every place they went- stores, restaurants, work, offices, etc. He is now between a rock and a hard place. He either has to eat a lot of crow, which, in some ways he is already choking on, or find a way to exempt the cruise lines. I am, in no way, an expert on international transportation law and maritime law. Why, if he could point to one or more of those laws, requirements, etc. to get out of this gracefully, hasn’ t he done that?

 

Protecting Floridians from what - best practices that would facilitate public health? 

[Iamcruzin]

On 5/27/2021 at 8:43 AM, baggal said:

Pre-COVID, cruise ships left from NYC and NJ for the Caribbean every week during the winter for 10 day Caribbean cruises.  Even though you spent a total of 3-4 days in less than tropical weather you were still on a CRUISE SHIP.  There's a huge market here in the Northeast for these cruises, especially for people who don't want to fly.  As an example, a family of 4 can drive down from Massachusetts to NYC in under 5 hours.  So yes, cruises from the Northeast are very popular with the public.

I agree. The first day is mostly spent in doors exploring the ship and unpacking. The last sea day is spent  packing and winding down before you have to return to reality. The 9 and 10 day cruises are the best.  Relaxing on a ship in Feb even with a few cold days sailing is better than sitting at home waiting for spring.

[Honolulu Blue]

10 hours ago, Straughn said:

I am a Florida resident and I support may things DeSantis has done for our state. The whole not allowing a business to require proof of vaccination is a clear case of “ready, fire, aim.”  The Governor wasn’t thinking about it’s impact on the cruise industry. It was aimed at protecting Floridians from having to show proof of vaccination every place they went- stores, restaurants, work, offices, etc. He is now between a rock and a hard place. He either has to eat a lot of crow, which, in some ways he is already choking on, or find a way to exempt the cruise lines. I am, in no way, an expert on international transportation law and maritime law. Why, if he could point to one or more of those laws, requirements, etc. to get out of this gracefully, hasn’ t he done that?

Thanks for your level headed perspective.

 

To the points you made in your last sentence, I don't believe any other laws are in his way at this time. The CDC explicitly did not require vaccines or proof of such in order to sail. Granted, the path forward is a lot easier and quicker if they do, but it's not a requirement. And none of the ports are requiring vaccines in order to enter by sea. I think it's very likely Mexico never will. The Bahamas needs the tourists too badly to stand in their way, unless the cruise lines really put the pressure on. St. Smarten could, but haven't yet.

[boscobeans]

8 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

I agree. The first day is mostly spent in doors exploring the ship and unpacking. The last sea day is spent  packing and winding down before you have to return to reality. The 9 and 10 day cruises are the best.  Relaxing on a ship in Feb even with a few cold days sailing is better than sitting at home waiting for spring.

Our thoughts exactly.  Being on a cruise ship for 2 days is so much better and less expensive than spending 2 days in airports and planes.

 

We sailed from Liberty when the top deck on the Silhouette was covered in ice and snow to wake up the following morning to warm breezes and bright sunshine off the Carolinas.

 

[Denny01]

11 hours ago, Straughn said:

I am a Florida resident and I support may things DeSantis has done for our state. The whole not allowing a business to require proof of vaccination is a clear case of “ready, fire, aim.”  The Governor wasn’t thinking about it’s impact on the cruise industry. It was aimed at protecting Floridians from having to show proof of vaccination every place they went- stores, restaurants, work, offices, etc. He is now between a rock and a hard place. He either has to eat a lot of crow, which, in some ways he is already choking on, or find a way to exempt the cruise lines. I am, in no way, an expert on international transportation law and maritime law. Why, if he could point to one or more of those laws, requirements, etc. to get out of this gracefully, hasn’ t he done that?

There were no restaurants, stores or any businesses that required or planned  to require customers to show vaccination documentation in Florida. So no idea what we Floridians were being protected from. I don’t support any politician as an individual, I support good decisions and I do Not support grandstanding.

 

ill leave it at that.  
 

den

[TeeRick]

23 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

There were no restaurants, stores or any businesses that required or planned  to require customers to show vaccination documentation in Florida. So no idea what we Floridians were being protected from. I don’t support any politician as an individual, I support good decisions and I do Not support grandstanding.

 

ill leave it at that.  
 

den

This is definitely not about protecting FL residents.  It is more about national aspirations in 2024.  I'll leave it at that too.

[paulh84]

On 5/27/2021 at 7:19 PM, harkinmr said:

Don’t think so. Listen to Fain again. There will be no requirement and exemptions made here, there, and everywhere. He wants people to believe that “most” people on board will be vaccinated, but doesn’t want to prove it. 

 

When he mentions RCI he says "like our other brands [Celebrity and Silversea] everyone who is eligible will be expected to have one [vaccine]."  Then talks about kids, then ends with "in any event, on these cruises we may not reach the 95%, but even here the vast majority will be vaccinated."

[Elkins45]

Whatever they decide I sure wish they would do it soon. The day after I booked July 25 on Equinox (interior) my wife received a free cruise offer from Carnival for Alaska (balcony) out of Seattle. If they are going to cancel our paid cruise I wish they would do it soon enough that we could take the free one. If we end up missing out on both I can promise Desantis I will vote for Charles Manson’s corpse over him when he runs for President.

[kstetser]

14 minutes ago, Elkins45 said:

Whatever they decide I sure wish they would do it soon. 

 

That is exactly what almost everyone's issue is right now with cruise lines.  We have cruises booked for the next few months and we are getting very little, if any, information about IF they will sail and WHAT the requirements will be.  No one can make educated decisions about their specific situations without that information.   It just feels like a money grab at this point - they have to know what they are going to do in the short term.   We are booked on a very expensive DCL cruise in September (in concierge) - NOTHING from DCL, not a peep about their plans or expectations for returning to sailing in the Caribbean.    I would switch to Celebrity in a heartbeat if they are sailing with 95% vaccinated and DCL is not (which is what we are all assuming will happen).   Folks need to plan their lives and the lack of transparency from the cruise lines is unacceptable.

[Elkins45]

5 minutes ago, kstetser said:

 

  Folks need to plan their lives and the lack of transparency from the cruise lines is unacceptable.

It’s not just the cruise lines. They can’t be transparent about things they don’t know, like what new changes the CDC will make this week, or what Desantis will do next. There are a lot of contributing factors.

 

I do agree it feels like a money grab. If I hadn’t already booked airfare I would be cheering for all the cruise lines to just abandon Florida and stage out of Texas and Louisiana this year. Let Desantis explain to all those Florida port employees and satellite industries why he cost them this year’s salary.

[kearney]

The CDC keeps updating their guidelines... makes it impossible for cruislines to tell you anything until they feel that the CDC has stopped making changes... just in the last week rules changed on masks (first outside then inside), excursions,  and just a few days ago they indicated that somethings were left up to the discretion of the cruise line.. So as of May 26... still not firm...plus there is the court case in mediation... hopefully we will know more next week. They can't be transparent over things they have no visibility to. I suggest you cancel and wait until the smoke has cleared..because they are not mind readers.  One of the contracts..Royal or Celebrity..can't recall... basically alerts passengers that they may or may not have to wear masks, socially distance and a whole bunch of things that appear to be no longer applicable...but the CDC could always reverse course if there is a bad outbreak.. So until you are on the ship you won't know what to expect.

13 minutes ago, kstetser said:

 

That is exactly what almost everyone's issue is right now with cruise lines.  We have cruises booked for the next few months and we are getting very little, if any, information about IF they will sail and WHAT the requirements will be.  No one can make educated decisions about their specific situations without that information.   It just feels like a money grab at this point - they have to know what they are going to do in the short term.   We are booked on a very expensive DCL cruise in September (in concierge) - NOTHING from DCL, not a peep about their plans or expectations for returning to sailing in the Caribbean.    I would switch to Celebrity in a heartbeat if they are sailing with 95% vaccinated and DCL is not (which is what we are all assuming will happen).   Folks need to plan their lives and the lack of transparency from the cruise lines is unacceptable.

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by kearney

[kstetser]

24 minutes ago, kearney said:

The CDC keeps updating their guidelines... makes it impossible for cruislines to tell you anything until they feel that the CDC has stopped making changes... just in the last week rules changed on masks (first outside then inside), excursions,  and just a few days ago they indicated that somethings were left up to the discretion of the cruise line.. So as of May 26... still not firm...plus there is the court case in mediation... hopefully we will know more next week. They can't be transparent over things they have no visibility to. I suggest you cancel and wait until the smoke has cleared..because they are not mind readers.  One of the contracts..Royal or Celebrity..can't recall... basically alerts passengers that they may or may not have to wear masks, socially distance and a whole bunch of things that appear to be no longer applicable...but the CDC could always reverse course if there is a bad outbreak.. So until you are on the ship you won't know what to expect.

 

I cannot cancel without losing my deposit - and I don't want to cancel, I want to sail, but don't know enough. There are things cruise lines know now - like if they are going to do the 95% vaccination or not.  That would be super helpful for many of us to make a decision about sailing.

[kearney]

9 minutes ago, kstetser said:

I cannot cancel without losing my deposit - and I don't want to cancel, I want to sail, but don't know enough. There are things cruise lines know now - like if they are going to do the 95% vaccination or not.  That would be super helpful for many of us to make a decision about sailing.

Royal is not doing the 95% but Celebrity is. In Fain's video..he noted that because Royal is more of a family oriented line that they will not be able to make the 95% because of the significant number of children on board. Those over 12..after May 1 will be expected to be vaccinated...but they believe that they will have enough children below 12 that it will not be possible to reach the 95% level.  The real issue now is Florida's vaccine passport ban... It kinda looks like they will use the honor system... request that passengers be vaccinated..but not ask for proof... at least that is what it looks like..from the documents I have seen...  Can you move your cruise to next year without losing deposit... Lift and Shift

[bajathree]

11 minutes ago, kstetser said:

I cannot cancel without losing my deposit - and I don't want to cancel, I want to sail, but don't know enough. There are things cruise lines know now - like if they are going to do the 95% vaccination or not.  That would be super helpful for many of us to make a decision about sailing.

Celebrity has made it VERY clear that they are sailing the Edge starting June 26 going out 95% vaccinated. Had sales video conference last week where Celebrity told their TA's...."tell you clients that we are sailing fully vaccinated sailings on Celebrity.....Book them and tell them they will have to provide proof of vaccine". No masks will be required on-board but you will have to wear them in the terminal. 

[matadams4u]

On 5/27/2021 at 6:16 AM, Jeremiah1212 said:

An interesting take that I thought was a bit far fetched initially, but maybe not so much?

 

The law says documentation cannot be ''required'. So don't require it. If the passenger wants to volunteer it, that's their choice. I'll happily show them my card. But if you can't produce a vaccination record at check-in, you're set aside until they verify they have space in that 5% window to allow you on. If that 5% is full? Deny boarding due to the CDC guidance and/or the ticket contract that basically says they can deny you boarding whenever they want.

I belong to a club that is also open to the public with a dress code.  There is an exception for big names but otherwise it is at the discretion of the hostess.  When someone walks up to the counter dressed inappropriately the hostess just says the club is booked or calls up to the club to confirm “there are no opening”.  
 

The irony of Florida’s law - you can be denied entry to a club for not being dressed appropriately but not denied entry for being a threat to public health.

 

Life is a lot easier for me when I dress appropriately and work to be nice to staff and for some reason a table is always available.  I am also vaccinated and hope that allows me to be welcomed back to travel.

[cangelmd]

44 minutes ago, kstetser said:

 

That is exactly what almost everyone's issue is right now with cruise lines.  We have cruises booked for the next few months and we are getting very little, if any, information about IF they will sail and WHAT the requirements will be.  No one can make educated decisions about their specific situations without that information.   It just feels like a money grab at this point - they have to know what they are going to do in the short term.   We are booked on a very expensive DCL cruise in September (in concierge) - NOTHING from DCL, not a peep about their plans or expectations for returning to sailing in the Caribbean.    I would switch to Celebrity in a heartbeat if they are sailing with 95% vaccinated and DCL is not (which is what we are all assuming will happen).   Folks need to plan their lives and the lack of transparency from the cruise lines is unacceptable.

I feel your pain, but I do think some of this is out of the cruise line control and some will resolve soon. We are booked on Equinox for August 1. We and our TA are fairly certain it will sail, but certain enough to make our arrangements? Normally hotel and plane would have been booked a couple of months ago. 
Will we find out next week? Maybe, hopefully? Should we cancel and book on Edge? Should we drive?

It is frustrating and maybe we will get some clarity next week

[harkinmr]

2 hours ago, paulh84 said:

 

When he mentions RCI he says "like our other brands [Celebrity and Silversea] everyone who is eligible will be expected to have one [vaccine]."  Then talks about kids, then ends with "in any event, on these cruises we may not reach the 95%, but even here the vast majority will be vaccinated."

I’m not so sure because they will be making exceptions for medical contraindications and religious exemptions, plus children not able to be vaccinated.  He talked about those. Personally, I don’t see RCI asking for documentation and therefore most anyone can claim a medical/religious exemption.  He can say “most” will be vaccinated but that’s not verifiable in this instance.  It sounds good though. More importantly, for anyone vaccinated on these cruises the full CDC health protocols will apply, unlike fully vaccinated cruises. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by harkinmr

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, kearney said:

Royal is not doing the 95% but Celebrity is. In Fain's video..he noted that because Royal is more of a family oriented line that they will not be able to make the 95% because of the significant number of children on board. Those over 12..after May 1 will be expected to be vaccinated...but they believe that they will have enough children below 12 that it will not be possible to reach the 95% level.  The real issue now is Florida's vaccine passport ban... It kinda looks like they will use the honor system... request that passengers be vaccinated..but not ask for proof... at least that is what it looks like..from the documents I have seen...  Can you move your cruise to next year without losing deposit... Lift and Shift

The honor system.  That gave me a good laugh!

[kearney]

11 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

The honor system.  That gave me a good laugh!

I know...but I would have thought that if documentation was required...it would be in the cruise contract...wouldn't it?

[kearney]

19 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

The honor system.  That gave me a good laugh!

Here is the other thing... when I search for proof of vaccine required... I come across this screen. Notice that the proof of vaccination discussion is listed under sailing from Seattle or Bahamas... Florida is not listed... at this point...