Official: Mediation in lawsuit against federal gov., CDC over cruising shutdown has failed

[MaritimeR&R]

From WESH Headlines : An official with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’ administration said the mediation effort in the lawsuit against the federal government and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has failed.

The lawsuit demanded the reopening of the cruise industry.

The state is insisting that a judge invalidate the no-sail order and allow ships to cruise as they did before the pandemic.

The official went on to say the state will enforce the law against vaccination passports and will look to fine companies $5,000 for each person who is asked for proof of vaccination. State officials called the test cruises meaningless and said they do not represent a go-ahead for paying passenger cruises.

For a cruise to take place, cruise companies would have to certify their crews are 98% vaccinated and passengers are 95% vaccine, which the state will not allow.

The official with DeSantis’ administration says the state will wait on a ruling on its lawsuit, which is expected "soon."

Edited June 3, 2021 by MaritimeR&R

[crewsweeper]

RUT ROW!🤡

[boatseller]

Given the entire NIH/CDC narrative is collapsing, wonder if they'll even show for the next hearing.

[MaritimeR&R]

According to the report, a judge will be making a ruling shortly. 

 

[NightOne]

Not a huge surprise there.

 

Hopefully the judge will rule the CSO out of existence immediately.

[Sea Dog]

I’m not surprised. I will be on pins and needles for the ruling.

[MaritimeR&R]

And then, I assume, there's always the appeal process.  

 

[100viper]

Everyone should’ve expected that. How soon can we expect a ruling? Today? By the end of the week?

[NightOne]

Just now, 100viper said:

Everyone should’ve expected that. How soon can we expect a ruling? Today? By the end of the week?

 

based on how long it already has been going on ... some time after the CSO is lifted 😞

[jrapps]

There's an article on it on the RC Blog now too, and a link to another article where Taryn Fenske, communications director for Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, issued a statement

 

“After more than a week of good-faith negotiations by the State of Florida in mediation with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), after Florida sued the CDC to overturn the agencies unlawful No Sail Order, the CDC continues to impose ridiculous, unlawful regulations that targets a single industry by imposing vaccine requirements – something no other business or industry must do. These requirements not only discriminate against one industry, but children, families, and small businesses. Despite Florida’s sincere efforts to reach a compromise, the United States District Court declared an impasse.”

 

My issue with this political spin is that it seems like FL came to the mediation table prepared to accept nothing short of "We will repeal the CSO". Now that is just my opinion here as the exact details of the mediation are confidential, but this doesn't make it seem like they even tried to compromise.

 

And yet even more doubling down on the whole vaccine issue, so those reports out there that the lines are negotiating with FL are poppycock.

 

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/06/03/mediation-fails-to-settle-cruise-line-lawsuit-between-florida-cdc/

 

Hopefully we get a ruling today or tomorrow and then all this "spin" can go away.

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by jrapps

[molly361]

5 minutes ago, jrapps said:

 

 

My issue with this political spin is that it seems like FL came to the mediation table prepared to accept nothing short of "We will repeal the CSO". Now that is just my opinion here as the exact details of the mediation are confidential, but this doesn't make it seem like they even tried to compromise.

 

And yet even more doubling down on the whole vaccine issue, so those reports out there that the lines are negotiating with FL are poppycock.

 

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/06/03/mediation-fails-to-settle-cruise-line-lawsuit-between-florida-cdc/

 

Hopefully we get a ruling today or tomorrow and then all this "spin" can go away.

 

Correct- The governors office issued a statement yesterday that was on the news saying that there were NO such negotiations going on

[harkinmr]

6 minutes ago, jrapps said:

There's an article on it on the RC Blog now too, and a link to another article where Taryn Fenske, communications director for Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, issued a statement

 

“After more than a week of good-faith negotiations by the State of Florida in mediation with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), after Florida sued the CDC to overturn the agencies unlawful No Sail Order, the CDC continues to impose ridiculous, unlawful regulations that targets a single industry by imposing vaccine requirements – something no other business or industry must do. These requirements not only discriminate against one industry, but children, families, and small businesses. Despite Florida’s sincere efforts to reach a compromise, the United States District Court declared an impasse.”

 

My issue with this political spin is that it seems like FL came to the mediation table prepared to accept nothing short of "We will repeal the CSO". Now that is just my opinion here as the exact details of the mediation are confidential, but this doesn't make it seem like they even tried to compromise.

 

And yet even more doubling down on the whole vaccine issue, so those reports out there that the lines are negotiating with FL are poppycock.

 

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/06/03/mediation-fails-to-settle-cruise-line-lawsuit-between-florida-cdc/

 

Hopefully we get a ruling today or tomorrow and then all this "spin" can go away.

 

Of course Florida came to the table expecting the CSO to be dropped.  I said as much numerous times, but others saw some sort of five dimensional chess being played by the State.  There was and is no give.  The need to win and be vindicated took over and appears to have clouded the Governor's judgment.  And this crap on the vaccines needs to go bye-bye too.  My guess: injunctive relief denied.  Judge dismisses the case based on CDC's filing yesterday, or, most likely the case goes to trial.  And the cruise world keeps on turning...

[harkinmr]

6 minutes ago, molly361 said:

Correct- The governors office issued a statement yesterday that was on the news saying that there were NO such negotiations going on

It's hard to negotiate when you are stuck in the sand.

[smokeybandit]

13 minutes ago, jrapps said:

My issue with this political spin is that it seems like FL came to the mediation table prepared to accept nothing short of "We will repeal the CSO". Now that is just my opinion here as the exact details of the mediation are confidential, but this doesn't make it seem like they even tried to compromise.

 

 

What else could they possibly have accepted?  Mediation just seemed so odd for this case since it is a very binary request to begin with.  

[jrapps]

Just now, smokeybandit said:

 

What else could they possibly have accepted?  Mediation just seemed so odd for this case since it is a very binary request to begin with.  

I agree that it seems to all of us that it was too binary for compromise, but to come to the press saying you were "negotiating" for a week in good faith is itself a bad faith thing to say if you weren't really negotiating as much as demanding.

 

I agree with @harkinmr, at this point my money is on the injunction denied, this goes to a trial scheduled for so far in the future it's a moot issue, and we go on to the next crisis.

[boatseller]

5 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

It's hard to negotiate when you are stuck in the sand.

Yeah, it's hard to negociate with stupid people.  I mean unless having your book cancelled is a sign of super duper smarts...is it?

 

The CDC is going all in because they have nothing left.

 

And you still haven't given any reason why the CDC is even remotely right in carrying on the farce.  Legal authority is irrelevant, they can change it any time they want.

[NightOne]

2 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Yeah, it's hard to negociate with stupid people.  I mean unless having your book cancelled is a sign of super duper smarts...is it?

 

The CDC is going all in because they have nothing left.

 

And you still haven't given any reason why the CDC is even remotely right in carrying on the farce.  Legal authority is irrelevant, they can change it any time they want.

 

CDC has too much power. That is what we need to be addressing.

[boatseller]

25 minutes ago, jrapps said:

My issue with this political spin is that it seems like FL came to the mediation table prepared to accept nothing short of "We will repeal the CSO". Now that is just my opinion here as the exact details of the mediation are confidential, but this doesn't make it seem like they even tried to compromise.

When you hold all the cards, no reason to expect anything other than the opponent folding.

 

At this point, the CDC just being petulant.

 

Anything they present in trial will be tainted by the disgraced NIH.  They have no case other then 'Because I said so!'.

 

If anyone can play Devil's Advocate (literally in this case :) and defend the CDC, we're all eyes.

[BeancounterUSA]

If a mediation "fails" then I have a hard time believing it was really a mediation, but rather another venue in which both sides restate their position.

 

A true mediation from my experience, has a mediator, who makes a decision both parties are bound by.  Having been involved in a corporate mediation some years ago, I can say that it's my opinion that mediators have a goal of ending the dispute with both parties about equally unhappy. 

 

[jrapps]

Just now, boatseller said:

When you hold all the cards, no reason to expect anything other than the opponent folding.

 

At this point, the CDC just being petulant.

 

Anything they present in trial will be tainted by the disgraced NIH.  They have no case other then 'Because I said so!'.

 

If anyone can play Devil's Advocate (literally in this case 🙂 and defend the CDC, we're all eyes.

Interesting..is your perspective that FL has all the cards and was expecting the CDC to fold, or the other way around? I think neither are true. I don't think the CDC is being petulant at all (or no more petualt than FL is being), and are not doing this just because they "say so". If that were the case, we wouldn't have seen any movement on the CSO. Are they perfect? Of course not, it's a hot mess. But people are trying to play victim and looking for an "enemy" to fight.

 

I also think the state truly believes they are doing the right thing (even if some of us disagree that they actually are). Desantis wants to start cruising, but he only wants it to restart his way. The word compromise is not in his vocabulary. Cruising may very well start up again under the current CSO rules and nothing he did will have made an impact at all

 

People in this thread are generally going to fall into one of 3 camps. 1)you think this is all the CDCs fault and that FL is trying to save cruising. 2)You think FL is at fault, making this messier than it was especially with the vaccine thing and the CDC is just trying to get cruising started again safely or 3) both share some measure of responsibility.

 

The only vindication here will be in a ruling. And even then, I don't expect anything more than people claiming the judge kicked the can down the road.

 

[Pratique]

I'm going to guess: injunction denied, Florida appeals. Meanwhile, the feds move to dismiss for lack of standing. It seems crazy not to try. After appeal is resolved, judge kicks Florida out for lack of standing. He gave them a chance to work this out and it failed. By now it is July or later. All assuming nothing else changes in the meantime.

[coldflame]

1 hour ago, boatseller said:

Given the entire NIH/CDC narrative is collapsing, wonder if they'll even show for the next hearing.

 

What are you talking about. There is no date for next hearing. The Congressional Act for Alaska actually gives them the higher odds in this case. 

[harkinmr]

26 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Yeah, it's hard to negociate with stupid people.  I mean unless having your book cancelled is a sign of super duper smarts...is it?

 

The CDC is going all in because they have nothing left.

 

And you still haven't given any reason why the CDC is even remotely right in carrying on the farce.  Legal authority is irrelevant, they can change it any time they want.

Why should they change anything with regard to cruising?  The cruise lines are cooperating and things are progressing as if the Florida lawsuit didn't even exist.  When all you have is "cancel the CDC and the CSO", you have nowhere to go but down.  An incessant need to be right and to win has many times proven to do people in.  Looks like another victim will be claimed.

[Pratique]

4 minutes ago, coldflame said:

 

What are you talking about. There is no date for next hearing. The Congressional Act for Alaska actually gives them the higher odds in this case. 

Yes they have already shown their cards in their request for supplemental briefing. They have more to say and want to say it.

[harkinmr]

32 minutes ago, NightOne said:

 

CDC has too much power. That is what we need to be addressing.

LOL!!!  Good luck with that.