Mediation Fails to Settle Florida VS CDC Lawsuit

[Lee Cruiser]

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/06/03/mediation-fails-to-settle-cruise-line-lawsuit-between-florida-cdc/

[Sea Hag]

Now we wait and see what happens.

[tidecat]

Royal Caribbean story that broke earlier today:

 

https://www.insider.com/royal-caribbean-vaccine-mandate-florida-texas-2021-6

 

I figured Carnival is probably going to have to follow suit in at least Florida and Texas, and probably Alabama.

[Lee Cruiser]

4 minutes ago, tidecat said:

Royal Caribbean story that broke earlier today:

 

https://www.insider.com/royal-caribbean-vaccine-mandate-florida-texas-2021-6

 

I figured Carnival is probably going to have to follow suit in at least Florida and Texas, and probably Alabama.

It's kind of weird that the two cruise lines both reversed positions on the same day to go opposite ways.  It will be interesting to see what really happens.

[IntrepidFromDC]

6 minutes ago, Lee Cruiser said:

It's kind of weird that the two cruise lines both reversed positions on the same day to go opposite ways.  It will be interesting to see what really happens.

That really is the most interesting thing, I think.  Mediation failed so it goes back to the court, right?  Does Carnival think the "$5,000 fine per passenger" silliness is going to be struck down?  Have they found a workaround (e.g., related to the vaccine-proof upload technology Duffy talked about)?

[Lee Cruiser]

10 minutes ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

That really is the most interesting thing, I think.  Mediation failed so it goes back to the court, right?  Does Carnival think the "$5,000 fine per passenger" silliness is going to be struck down?  Have they found a workaround (e.g., related to the vaccine-proof upload technology Duffy talked about)?

According to the article the judge decides what happens next.  Who knows what that will be. I'm not sure what Carnival has up their sleeves as far as a workaround.  I really wonder if they were surprised by RCI's announcement yesterday or they already knew it was coming?  Apparently they didn't know or I doubt they would have announced the opposite thing on the same day.

[tidecat]

27 minutes ago, Lee Cruiser said:

It's kind of weird that the two cruise lines both reversed positions on the same day to go opposite ways.  It will be interesting to see what really happens.

And there's time for multiple changes to happen by July 1 as well.

[lobster1313]

51 minutes ago, Lee Cruiser said:

It's kind of weird that the two cruise lines both reversed positions on the same day to go opposite ways.  It will be interesting to see what really happens.

Carnival didn't decide anything.  There was no definitive statement. It was just more of the same double speak that they have been using all year.

[BlerkOne]

and still no cruise line has sided with Florida on the issue. The judge can't ignore that fact.

[TNcruising02]

1 hour ago, Lee Cruiser said:

According to the article the judge decides what happens next.  Who knows what that will be. I'm not sure what Carnival has up their sleeves as far as a workaround.  I really wonder if they were surprised by RCI's announcement yesterday or they already knew it was coming?  Apparently they didn't know or I doubt they would have announced the opposite thing on the same day.

That is very strange!  I am not surprised that Royal went with testing and open to everyone.  I am surprised that Carnival announced they will start with vaccinated only cruises after being very vocal about cruising with everyone.  I wonder what the deal is.  Does Carnival think they will not be able to keep control of the passengers as well as Royal?  It makes no sense that one line would say one thing and the other say another thing.

Maybe Carnival's intention is to only do July cruises as vaccinated.  Or maybe they think if they agree to vaccinated only cruises, that the CDC will agree to exempt the 12 and under children.  I do think Carnival could easily manage mask mandates for children, if all of the adults were vaccinated and they didn't have to worry about adults.

Edited June 6, 2021 by TNcruising02

[Joe817]

I will admit that based on the above posts, this may seem like a gross oversimplification of the issues before you. However this sounds like a classic "power struggle" between 2 super players in the cruising game. Who wins, or who blinks first, is anyone's guess. Who knows? I sure don't. I'm just a sideline observer, eating my popcorn. 

[BlerkOne]

16 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

That is very strange!  I am not surprised that Royal went with testing and open to everyone.  I am surprised that Carnival announced they will start with vaccinated only cruises after being very vocal about cruising with everyone.  I wonder what the deal is.

I think Christine was clear. The deal is cruising in a bubble won't be as enjoyable. Vaccinated cruises have more freedom.  

[TNcruising02]

I think Royal's decision is a final one for them since their cruises are sailing so soon.  Carnival might flip flop daily.  I hope someone who has a July cruise will let all of us know if they can check in and what communication they get.

[40yearcruiser]

"Those who are unvaccinated or unable to verify vaccination will be required to undergo testing and follow other protocols, which will be announced at a later date," Royal Caribbean said on Friday.

Royal Caribbean may have backed off somewhat from requiring vaccination, but the real question is what protocols will be required of those who will not or can not verify that they have been vaccinated. If the unvaccinated are required (as the CDC has published) to  be tested repeatedly, wear masks, social distance, and only leave the ship in a cruiseline sponsored tour while those who voluntarily provide proof of vaccination do not have to comply with these protocols there will be all kinds of complaining about how "unfair" this is. In addition, RC is going to have to institute a system to easily identify who is subject to this protocol and who isn't. This looks like a way to get around the Florida "no ask" vaccine passport law and still have most passengers vaccinated. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

[IntrepidFromDC]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

and still no cruise line has sided with Florida on the issue. The judge can't ignore that fact.

Judges are generally picked for their "reasonable interpretation skills".  It was difficult enough with the cruise lines at odds with CDC.  Now throw in a politician's meddling and it's pretty obvious none of the other three parties have difficulty seeing the governor was shortsighted, thinking about political points instead of cruise revenue and jobs, although those were his talking points.  It's really going to be a shame if it winds up being the CDC and cruise lines came together to cruise in July but a politician messed things up (AGAIN).

[BlerkOne]

37 minutes ago, 40yearcruiser said:

 

Royal Caribbean may have backed off somewhat from requiring vaccination, but the real question is what protocols will be required of those who will not or can not verify that they have been vaccinated.

It may have been their plan all along. Announce mandatory vaccination and I would think most people booked on Royal would get vaccinated or cancel. Now at almost the last minute flip flop, and you will still likely end up with mostly vaccinated cruisers, without having to mandate.

 

Carnival could be doing the same, but I hope not. I don't want to have to jump through extra hoops, or have a cruise terminated early because some didn't want to get vaccinated.

[kbandwb]

10 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

I think Royal's decision is a final one for them since their cruises are sailing so soon.  Carnival might flip flop daily.  I hope someone who has a July cruise will let all of us know if they can check in and what communication they get.

We are booked to sail on Horizon July 10th.  Nothing from Carnival so far.  Only that we have until June 14th to cancel with a full refund.  Hoping we still sail.  We are vaccinated so we are set either way if the ship sails. 

 

This came on 5/27/21:

Dear Carnival Guest:   We had hoped by now that we would have been able to communicate the specific health and safety protocols for your upcoming cruise in July and August.  We continue to evaluate many of the details the CDC shared with the cruise industry yesterday but still have questions that need clarification.    Given our commitment to providing a safe and healthy environment, combined with an enjoyable onboard guest experience, we need a few more days to come to some final decisions.  Consequently, we are extending the final payment deadline for your cruise to Monday, June 14.  We expect to provide further information prior to June 14, but this action will allow those of you who have not yet made final payment to wait until we can provide greater clarity on sailing guidelines before making a decision about your plans, rebooking to a later date, or requesting a refund.   We appreciate your patience and support.

Sincerely,

Christine Duffy President, Carnival Cruise Line

Edited June 6, 2021 by kbandwb

[lobster1313]

17 minutes ago, kbandwb said:

We are booked to sail on Horizon July 10th.  Nothing from Carnival so far.  Only that we have until June 14th to cancel with a full refund.  Hoping we still sail.  We are vaccinated so we are set either way if the ship sails. 

We're scheduled for the same cruise so hopefully we have some good news tomorrow.

[2Shoes2Go]

Watching and waiting for some info. We’re July 3, Vista. Is this one first out of the gate? 

[Aplmac]

This entire political issue/non-issue is beyond dismaying.

Only in America. Sorry about that.

 

[bethtex]

for those of you who mentioned Texas - the governor's order in Texas does NOT preclude private businesses from requiring proof of vaccination.  Only applies to state and local governments, public schools and such.  Much different than FL which penalizes private businesses for trying to operate as they wish.

[IntrepidFromDC]

10 minutes ago, bethtex said:

for those of you who mentioned Texas - the governor's order in Texas does NOT preclude private businesses from requiring proof of vaccination.  Only applies to state and local governments, public schools and such.  Much different than FL which penalizes private businesses for trying to operate as they wish.

 

God Bless Texas!

[MrMarc]

10 minutes ago, bethtex said:

for those of you who mentioned Texas - the governor's order in Texas does NOT preclude private businesses from requiring proof of vaccination.  Only applies to state and local governments, public schools and such.  Much different than FL which penalizes private businesses for trying to operate as they wish.

SB 968 does though, and it will become law around the end of August.

[IntrepidFromDC]

Just now, MrMarc said:

SB 968 does though, and it will become law around the end of August.

DOH!

[MrMarc]

3 minutes ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

DOH!

It wasn't publicized much.  Here is a link to it if anyone is interested:https://openstates.org/tx/bills/87/SB968/