6/7/21 Letter to July Horizon cruisers from Carnival

[lazydayz]

We are scheduled for the July 10th cruise from Miami and just received this via e-mail.      Dear Carnival Horizon Guest:   We are looking forward to welcoming you on board Carnival Horizon for your upcoming cruise in July. We have been working to navigate through the evolving guidance for restarting our ships in the U.S.  We appreciate the support for our U.S. restart and the industry continues to be in regular communication with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) requesting that more manageable guidelines be adopted, especially as it relates to families traveling with children under the age of 12 who are ineligible for vaccination.    The current CDC requirements for cruising with a guest base that is unvaccinated are much more restrictive and will make it very difficult to deliver the experience our guests expect especially given the large number of families with younger children who sail with us.    Earlier today we announced that we plan to operate our ships sailing from Galveston during the month of July with vaccinated guests.  This approach, however, requires guests to provide proof of vaccination at time of check-in which is currently prohibited in the State of Florida.      As stated above, we continue to work with CDC on its requirements for unvaccinated guests, especially children under the age of 12 and we are working with the Governor of Florida to find a resolution so we can begin cruising from Florida in the same manner that we are sailing from Galveston in July and satisfy their requirements.    We will provide an update by Friday, June 11, regarding protocols specific to your cruise in July.  As previously communicated, we have extended your ability to rebook or request a full refund until Monday, June 14.   We continue to believe these matters will be resolved in time for Carnival Horizon’s first departure from Miami on July 4 and we remain optimistic that requirements  for cruising from the U.S. will continue to evolve and our approach to future sailings will become more flexible. However, at this time we must follow the requirements we have as of today.    Ultimately, we are focused and committed to following all guidelines, protecting public health, AND delivering to our guests, a FUN Carnival cruise vacation.    Thank you to all our guests, travel advisors and other stakeholders who have been patient and supportive as we work through this process.  Sincerely,

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Christine Duffy President, Carnival Cruise Line

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[firefly333]

We continue to believe, and we continue to talk...

 

Imo not optimistic this will sail. Hopefully by the 11th they have facts. This is a yes or no. Time for answers, not we continue to talk.  

 

Sorry

[jrapps]

Trying to figure out from this letter if FL doesn't bend (which they won't) does carnival 1) require them anyway like Norwegian and Celebrity and just call their bluff 2) cancel the Horizon or 3) sail from FL with different experiences than in TX?

[lazydayz]

Since I live in Florida, I am much more flexible.  If this ship sails, we will be on it.  If not, we will fly to St. Maarten later in July and hop on the Celebrity Summit. 

 

I am so excited to see cruising return to the US ports.  

[BlerkOne]

Carnival is running out of time to schedule test cruises in Florida.

[lazydayz]

Just now, jrapps said:

Trying to figure out from this letter if FL doesn't bend (which they won't) does carnival 1) require them anyway like Norwegian and Celebrity and just call their bluff 2) cancel the Horizon or 3) sail from FL with different experiences than in TX?

 

It looks to me like Carnival is still trying to reach a resolution with Florida.  If not, I think their attorneys can get them comfortable that the Florida law is unconstitutional.  I don't blame them for not wanting that fight, but if Carnival has a reasonable level of risk tolerance, they just sail from Miami with a fully vaccinated ship.  

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Trying to figure out from this letter if FL doesn't bend (which they won't) does carnival 1) require them anyway like Norwegian and Celebrity and just call their bluff 2) cancel the Horizon or 3) sail from FL with different experiences than in TX?

If Florida remains anti-business, maybe Carnival will allow Horizon and Vista cruisers to swap? You know there will be some cancellations in Galveston.

 

I don't think NCL is sailing from Miami before the CSO expires.

[jrapps]

Just now, BlerkOne said:

If Florida remains anti-business, maybe Carnival will allow Horizon and Vista cruisers to swap? You know there will be some cancellations in Galveston.

 

I don't think NCL is sailing from Miami before the CSO expires.

Norwegian Gem, August 15th from Miami

[BlerkOne]

Actually another out for Carnival is to require vaccines and require proof to be uploaded before Jul1 when the law takes effect! Failure to upload will result in cruise cancellation unless you sign a waiver that you will voluntarily provide proof at the dock or be denied boarding. Ta Da!

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Norwegian Gem, August 15th from Miami

My bad and wonderful!

 

If NCL can, then no reason Carnival can't.

[sm3ds]

6 minutes ago, lazydayz said:

 

It looks to me like Carnival is still trying to reach a resolution with Florida.  If not, I think their attorneys can get them comfortable that the Florida law is unconstitutional.  I don't blame them for not wanting that fight, but if Carnival has a reasonable level of risk tolerance, they just sail from Miami with a fully vaccinated ship.  

Can you explain to me why it's unconstitutional? Governors have been telling private business what they can and cannot do throughout this whole pandemic. Have you forgotten about mask mandates, take out only,  capacity restrictions, gyms not being allowed to open. Disneyland shut down for a year and then no out of state visitors allowed.  My favorite you can't drink in a bar without ordering food. The list just goes on and on. 

I'm perplexed as why all of sudden government telling a business they can't ask for medical records is an over reach. They've been over reaching for over a year and most of you were Ok with it. 

 

[jrapps]

Just now, BlerkOne said:

My bad and wonderful!

 

If NCL can, then no reason Carnival can't.

If Carnival decides to require vaccines in FL, I see this as the tipping point. All other lines on the fence will follow. Basically the entire industry standing up to the FL legislature.

[jrapps]

1 minute ago, sm3ds said:

Can you explain to me why it's unconstitutional? Governors have been telling private business what they can and cannot do throughout this whole pandemic. Have you forgotten about mask mandates, take out only,  capacity restrictions, gyms not being allowed to open. Disneyland shut down for a year and then no out of state visitors allowed.  My favorite you can't drink in a bar without ordering food. The list just goes on and on. 

I'm perplexed as why all of sudden government telling a business they can't ask for medical records is an over reach. They've been over reaching for over a year and most of you were Ok with it. 

 

The answer to that is very long, complicated, and politically charged. it will spark a longer heated debate than this thread deserves.

[lazydayz]

9 minutes ago, sm3ds said:

Can you explain to me why it's unconstitutional? Governors have been telling private business what they can and cannot do throughout this whole pandemic. Have you forgotten about mask mandates, take out only,  capacity restrictions, gyms not being allowed to open. Disneyland shut down for a year and then no out of state visitors allowed.  My favorite you can't drink in a bar without ordering food. The list just goes on and on. 

I'm perplexed as why all of sudden government telling a business they can't ask for medical records is an over reach. They've been over reaching for over a year and most of you were Ok with it. 

 

 

Short answer, it violates the commerce clause.  As to all the other stuff, I agree with previous poster - not getting into a political debate here.  Just want to focus on the good stuff, which includes cruising.  

[ChutChut]

10 minutes ago, lazydayz said:

 

Short answer, it violates the commerce clause.  As to all the other stuff, I agree with previous poster - not getting into a political debate here.  Just want to focus on the good stuff, which includes cruising.  

Doesn't violate Commerce Clause. Next.

[jrapps]

1 minute ago, ChutChut said:

Doesn't violate Commerce Clause. Next.

You realize this is just going to devolve into a tit-for-tat back and forth of people offering their opinions dressed up as facts. Until lawyers get involved, this is just a "we don't know" situation.

[lazydayz]

10 minutes ago, jrapps said:

You realize this is just going to devolve into a tit-for-tat back and forth of people offering their opinions dressed up as facts. Until lawyers get involved, this is just a "we don't know" situation.

 

Good point.  Thanks. 

[dandeck]

Anyone who has ever been on a cruise ship realizes fully why all crew & passengers must be vaccinated.  For a multitude of reasons, simply no other way presently.   

[kdr69]

55 minutes ago, lazydayz said:

 

It looks to me like Carnival is still trying to reach a resolution with Florida.  If not, I think their attorneys can get them comfortable that the Florida law is unconstitutional.  I don't blame them for not wanting that fight, but if Carnival has a reasonable level of risk tolerance, they just sail from Miami with a fully vaccinated ship.  

which I believe they cannot do under the current law as they would require proof of vaccination would they not?

[lazydayz]

3 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

which I believe they cannot do under the current law as they would require proof of vaccination would they not?

 

They can certainly require it, and face a fine of $5,000 per violation.  But that would give them the opportunity to challenge the law.  

[kdr69]

Just now, lazydayz said:

 

They can certainly require it, and face a fine of $5,000 per violation.  But that would give them the opportunity to challenge the law.  

True but if they were interested in a legal battle one would think they would have initiated that long ago.

[logan25]

As previously posted, under CSO, Carnival needs to either run a test version and be thereafter approved for revenue cruising on Horizon or jump right to approved revenue cruising with at least 95% passenger and 98% crew vaccination.  Only two options available per CDC.

 

If CSO is dropped or set aside, another ballgame altogether.

[CroozFanatic]

Looks strategic. Tell Texas passengers they are a go - make Florida look like an outlier. Set artificial deadline of June 11th. If they don't get something workable from Florida, cancel in two week increments.

[kdr69]

Dammmm sure is alot of orange status ships on the color code List now for all the cruise lines.  What up with that?

[BlerkOne]

59 minutes ago, sm3ds said:

Can you explain to me why it's unconstitutional? Governors have been telling private business what they can and cannot do throughout this whole pandemic. Have you forgotten about mask mandates, take out only,  capacity restrictions, gyms not being allowed to open. Disneyland shut down for a year and then no out of state visitors allowed.  My favorite you can't drink in a bar without ordering food. The list just goes on and on. 

I'm perplexed as why all of sudden government telling a business they can't ask for medical records is an over reach. They've been over reaching for over a year and most of you were Ok with it. c health

 

Public health is a responsibility of government and not overreach in any way.