Florida wins so Carnival can sail with kids

[SRQbeachgirl]

The order makes clear that any revised provisions the CDC proposes must be in line with the way the rest of the travel industry - planes, trains, busses - are being regulated. There is no other travel industry segment required to limit passengers to vaccinated or to a maximum percentage of unvaccinated. There are no capacity or social distancing requirements for any other segment of the travel industry. The CDC could require masks on cruise ships since they require them on other forms of transportation, but it has already been announced that the mask requirement on planes and other modes of travel will expire on September 13. They could require testing upon return to the U.S. since airline passengers coming from in on international flights are required to test, but that is expected to end soon as well.

 

That leaves the CDC with recommending sanitation and reporting protocols. Otherwise, things could be back to normal before the summer is over.

 

   

Edited June 18, 2021 by SRQbeachgirl

[BlerkOne]

6 minutes ago, scendro said:

I really don’t think this changes anything for Carnival’s July and August cruises, they will go forward with what they’ve announced - everyone must be vaxxed except a small amount that apply for and get approved exemptions- of which will be required to be masked while on the ship.  I don’t see Carnival doing a 180 

I don't either. And Florida's case on covid passports is weaker.

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, jfunk138 said:

 

I think its clear that mandating what people wear on their face in international waters is outside the scope of the CDC's Constitutional authority.  Manadating what people do while abroad is crazy.  People can engage in far higher risk activities and fly back to US with just a test.

 

 

It is certainly clear that it is outside of Florida's jurisdiction.

[BlerkOne]

and, of course, port agreements are now up in the air, and ports could require everyone to be vaccinated or tested at the port. Limit shore excursions. Etc.

[BroadwayGirl]

21 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

So masks would be required at a minimum.

And that’s what no one wants.  So I think the cruise lines are still stuck between vaxxed/no masks and mixed/with masks.  
 

However, I don’t necessarily agree with the judge saying it’s just like airline travel or trains or should be treated as such.  

[CruiseHealing]

Once a cruise enters international waters, the CDC rules do not apply.  The cruise line could announce all vaccinated passenger may remove their masks.

[BlerkOne]

20 minutes ago, LadyMac72 said:

So will everything up until July 18 now be cancelled?

Doubtful. That kind defeats the purpose.

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, CruiseHealing said:

Once a cruise enters international waters, the CDC rules do not apply.  The cruise line could announce all vaccinated passenger may remove their masks.

Do airlines let passengers toss their masks once in the air?

[jfunk138]

I think the CDC can only require masks in US waters.  There is no rule requiring masks to be worn on international air arrivals until you enter the terminal.

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

I think the CDC can only require masks in US waters.  There is no rule requiring masks to be worn on international air arrivals until you enter the terminal.

Things like this are what weaken Florida's law on vaccine passports.

[MrMarc]

I predict that, even though a bunch of people are happy right now, that giving this power to the Courts is going to end up being a bad thing for everyone.  Even now, the Judge is basically telling the CDC how to make rules, and he is going to decide if they are correct or not.

[ChutChut]

Just now, MrMarc said:

I predict that, even though a bunch of people are happy right now, that giving this power to the Courts is going to end up being a bad thing for everyone.  Even now, the Judge is basically telling the CDC how to make rules, and he is going to decide if they are correct or not.

Judicial branch can do this....

[ChutChut]

37 minutes ago, scendro said:

I really don’t think this changes anything for Carnival’s July and August cruises, they will go forward with what they’ve announced - everyone must be vaxxed except a small amount that apply for and get approved exemptions- of which will be required to be masked while on the ship.  I don’t see Carnival doing a 180 

Oh sure Carnival will. Moreover, Carnival is gonna get spanked by the FL no-vaccine law.

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, ChutChut said:

Posters should have taken your advice when they berated other posters for siding with Florida.

1000% true.  It was a pile on blood bath for people who sided with Florida. LOL.  Anyway, I think the CDC will come up with more reasonable requirements and that the majority of people will find them acceptable. 

[SRQbeachgirl]

1 minute ago, MrMarc said:

I predict that, even though a bunch of people are happy right now, that giving this power to the Courts is going to end up being a bad thing for everyone.  Even now, the Judge is basically telling the CDC how to make rules, and he is going to decide if they are correct or not.

 

No, the judge is telling a non-elected bureaucratic body that they have overstepped their authority - by a lot. He even stated the CDC sounded authoritarian in their responses under questioning during the trial. This is the point of a system with checks and balances, so that one branch of government cannot trample on the constitution or the public.

[MrMarc]

Just now, ChutChut said:

Judicial branch can do this....

Yes, and quite often does.  But the results end up being changeable, and unintended consequences are usually part of the package.  For example, here a Court is limiting the CDC, what happens in the next pandemic?  How limited is the CDC?  That is why he is pushing mediation so hard, then it would not impose a judicial limit on the power of the CDC.  I know some people don't like them right now, but who knows what the future will bring.  

[firefly333]

2 minutes ago, bdever said:

Exactly, there is no reason to preemptively brag or berate a group of people. Bad form with an invitation for karma to step in. 

Maybe karma stepped in against all those posting here hitting me over the head telling me how the cdc was such a good thing, they loved the cdc, only here to help me. Nonsense.. 

 

Karma just spoke. Of course those who think the cdc is a lovely non political group will cry and make excuses about this win. No surprise. 

 

Not everyone thinks alike.. while you think it's wrong to celebrate this win, I'm tired of those telling me it was fair for cdc to treat cruises differently. They arent for equal treatment of all. I'm for equality.

 

I dont have kids, but I do think the cruiselines are capable of deciding how to sail safe. They know how much is on the line, and its in their interests to sail safe. Perhaps vaccinated except for young kids, but kids can board. Probably too late for july and august, maybe some common sense to sept and oct. More kids allowed.. note the title is kids allowed to sail .. this is about the kids. 

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

Oh sure Carnival will. Moreover, Carnival is gonna get spanked by the FL no-vaccine law.

A different case for a different day.

[firefly333]

7 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

That is true.  However, some of us took a beating here when we dared to say that our opinion is that the CDC was being unreasonable.  I think the CDC will come back with less restrictive rules and we can all move forward.

Exactly, we both took a beating for saying cdc wasnt being reasonable, or treating cruising the same as other businesses. I'll buy ya a drink if we sail together. This shouldn't be about politics, it should be about science and equal treatment.

[MrMarc]

4 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

No, the judge is telling a non-elected bureaucratic body that they have overstepped their authority - by a lot. He even stated the CDC sounded authoritarian in their responses under questioning during the trial. This is the point of a system with checks and balances, so that one branch of government cannot trample on the constitution or the public.

I think you are making this a bigger issue than it is right now.  I understand how you feel about the CDC and the pandemic.  But just for a minute, think of the consequences if it turns out they were correct, but now no one has the power to correct it.  

[bdever]

Can someone with legal expertise advise on my understanding - The CDC has 30 days to come up with less restrictions for Florida cruises correct? In theory the CDC, DOT, Cruise lines and other states ALREADY in agreements (Alaska, Texas, Seattle, California) can proceed under the current guidelines?

[caniuseit]

29 minutes ago, BroadwayGirl said:

And that’s what no one wants.  So I think the cruise lines are still stuck between vaxxed/no masks and mixed/with masks.  
 

However, I don’t necessarily agree with the judge saying it’s just like airline travel or trains or should be treated as such.  

Completely agree. 
when the plane lands, you get off. The airport doesn’t deny you the right to land. 
 

when sickness occurs on a cruise ship, we had trouble finding someplace to dock. The cruise operator had to incur all the cost of food, drink, medical and evacuation 

 

nothing like a plane or train

 

If I were the cruise line I would want assurances by Desantis that Florida will allow a sick ship to dock and take responsibility for the passengers

 

that, or allow them to run their business as they see fit

 

 

[MrMarc]

8 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

1000% true.  It was a pile on blood bath for people who sided with Florida. LOL.  Anyway, I think the CDC will come up with more reasonable requirements and that the majority of people will find them acceptable. 

I agree with you up until that last part.  I predict the majority of people will be unhappy.  I say that because I see no way for a cruise ship to have a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated and not require masks and distancing.  The other solutions create a two tier system that the unvaccinated won't like, and the people that want 100% vaccinated cruises won't either.  But I hope you are correct and I am wrong.

[Jasonsterling]

I'm happy enough with this- I have thought the CDC was overstepping it's bounds to too great an extent in the face of the entire rest of the country opening up. I think cruise lines should be mindful of COVID and should continue the measure they were putting into place last March before the shut BUT even more so passengers need to be mindful of themselves and if, like me, you are concerned about catching COVID get the vaccine and wash your hands and practice good overall cleanliness. I booked a great deal on a cruise in August just this morning and can not wait to sail the Breeze out of Galveston in a few weeks! 

[firefly333]

9 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Yes, and quite often does.  But the results end up being changeable, and unintended consequences are usually part of the package.  For example, here a Court is limiting the CDC, what happens in the next pandemic?  How limited is the CDC?  That is why he is pushing mediation so hard, then it would not impose a judicial limit on the power of the CDC.  I know some people don't like them right now, but who knows what the future will bring.  

Maybe the next pandemic the cdc shouldn't ONLY be in charge of cruises... which is why some of us think this wasnt fair by the cdc. Makes no sense they control ONE industry and have no real control elsewhere.

 

Next pandemic this needs to be rethought.