With the new ruling more or less likely to sail in July

[maddi730]

What is everyone’s opinion on the judgment regarding the cdc guidelines being overruled? Do you think the July cruises are more or less likely to sail now?? 

[firefly333]

I think will have zero effect july and probably august.

 

It's about protocols changing sooner than nov 1st, not about sailing or not sailing. 

 

The 5% unvaccinated allowance could change and protocols into sept and forward could allow more children ... hence the title of the other thread ..children can sail ..though new protocols going forward might be subject to change regarding children.. I dont see this affecting anything but the 5%. Which in turn affects mask policy. 

[scendro]

I don’t think the ruling on the “preliminary injunction” related to the conditional sail order will change what Carnival has already announced for its July and August sailings.  I don’t see Carnival changing their requirements that everyone be vaccinated except a small percentage of exemptions.  Carnival does not want to risk a bumpy restart by having unvaxxed passengers when it starts back up.

This ruling is clear- businesses can chose to follow the CDC’s “conditional sail order” or not -but are no longer required to - for the next 30 days.  Nothing in this ruling prevents Carnival or any other cruise line from requiring that passengers be vaccinated.  Nothing prevents any cruise line from following the CDC guidance.  At this points it’s in the hands of the cruise lines.  Personally, I think (initially) the cruise lines liked the idea of “blaming” the CDC for the strict vaccination guidelines during the start up - this was away for the cruise lines to appease the anti COVID vaccine crowd by placing on the blame on the CDC- Now they can’t really do that anymore since the CSO has been stayed during this injunction.  
 

Also, this “Preliminary Injunction” does not answer the question about whether or not cruise lines can require passengers to show proof of vaccination when sailing from Florida and I think a lot of people are conflating the two -very separate - issues.  The so called “vaccine passport” issue is not in front of this Judge or any judge as far as I’m aware of.  

Edited June 19, 2021 by scendro

[TNcruising02]

I think the cruise lines have already moved forward with July and August cruises and will not change anything except for the possibility they may be able to allow more children under 12.  Since all they really know is that the CDC will have to come up with less restrictive rules, the safest way to move forward for July and August is with their original plans.

Edited June 19, 2021 by TNcruising02

[deliver42]

It's true.. The vaccine passport hasn't even been brought up.

[balcony bound]

3 minutes ago, deliver42 said:

It's true.. The vaccine passport hasn't even been brought up.

Hawaii, New York, and Oregon are the only states that currently have vaccine passports.  Pretty useless outside of the state that issued them.

[balcony bound]

I think all the currently planned cruises will go as is, no changes to the cruise guideline.  But starting September the guidelines will be different - more relaxed.

[LadyMac72]

So I think they are going to leave the current restrictions in effect for now.  Can you imagine the fallout if they start allowing children under 12 now after a bunch of people cancelled because their unvaccinated child/children couldn't go?

 

We might see changes in September for all cruises except Alaska.  But July and August will remain the same.  

[stellarose]

and sure by December- really relaxed- which is could be good and or bad. 

[SNJCruisers]

4 minutes ago, balcony bound said:

I think all the currently planned cruises will go as is, no changes to the cruise guideline.  But starting September the guidelines will be different - more relaxed.

Hopefully more relaxed when it comes to kids.  If it's more relaxed regarding unvaccinated adults, then the vaccinated adults would have to wear masks as well as wrist bands similar to what RCI is implementing.

[firefly333]

7 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

Hopefully more relaxed when it comes to kids.  If it's more relaxed regarding unvaccinated adults, then the vaccinated adults would have to wear masks as well as wrist bands similar to what RCI is implementing.

If the cso goes away ... so does the mask policy for unvaccinated.. you dont know vaccinated pax will be required to wear mask if they allow more unvaccinated.    This is about the cso going away.

 

Not saying I want more unvaccinated, just saying we dont know 3 months from now. Cdc has until july 2nd to write up new cso with scientific backing. Tbh I havent seen studies saying masks work. We assume so, but I havent seen proof. I'm not forecasting the future, every week it changes.

 

 

[2Shoes2Go]

Wonder what the effect will be on cruises, in Sept,, from smaller ports, like Mobile and Jacksonville? Maybe more ports will open. Many cruises still in limbo and not yet cancelled.

[firefly333]

20 minutes ago, 2Shoes2Go said:

Wonder what the effect will be on cruises, in Sept,, from smaller ports, like Mobile and Jacksonville? Maybe more ports will open. Many cruises still in limbo and not yet cancelled.

Imo very little effect there either. The issue with gearing up is carnival is having to hire and get crews vaccinated..and I expect this to continue. It would be foolish to not get crew vaccinated. Hiring takes a while. 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, deliver42 said:

It's true.. The vaccine passport hasn't even been brought up.

Not according to the governor's site. More overreach?

 

https://www.flgov.com/2021/06/18/governor-desantis-wins-major-victory-to-protect-floridas-cruise-industry/?fbclid=IwAR0l_cKJ-EWNWZrVmvIoJL6gpgdOgn9cOreIoAKCI3rJtqJexR--JDJvuI0

 

Included in the ruling, the Middle District Court of Florida found that:

• The CDC cannot discriminately keep children and families from cruising;
• Neither the CDC, nor any federal agency, can require a vaccine passport; and
• The CDC must create an actual framework for businesses to resume operations, rather than forcing them to conduct burdensome and bureaucratic tests without any standard by which to be measured.

[BlerkOne]

47 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

 

Not saying I want more unvaccinated, just saying we dont know 3 months from now. Cdc has until july 2nd to write up new cso with scientific backing. Tbh I havent seen studies saying masks work. We assume so, but I havent seen proof. I'm not forecasting the future, every week it changes.

 

The kind of CSO the judge is looking for could last far beyond Nov 1.

 

Of course masks work and are a gold standard for cruising in Europe which the judge referenced several times.

[rabidstoat]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The kind of CSO the judge is looking for could last far beyond Nov 1.

 

Of course masks work and are a gold standard for cruising in Europe which the judge referenced several times.

 

A number of vaccinated people don't want to cruise if they have to wear a mask.

 

Maybe this will allow cruises to say "unvaccinated wear masks and vaccinated don't have to" and let them mingle without having special spaces set aside, like the CSO requires. And not require test cruises.

 

Heck, the cruises could go 'honor system' on masks, I suppose, which would effectively be 'wear a mask if you feel like it otherwise don't.'

[Dunk]

1 hour ago, balcony bound said:

Hawaii, New York, and Oregon are the only states that currently have vaccine passports.  Pretty useless outside of the state that issued them.

California also has one as of yesterday. Optional to participate. 

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, rabidstoat said:

 

A number of vaccinated people don't want to cruise if they have to wear a mask.

 

Maybe this will allow cruises to say "unvaccinated wear masks and vaccinated don't have to" and let them mingle without having special spaces set aside, like the CSO requires. And not require test cruises.

 

Heck, the cruises could go 'honor system' on masks, I suppose, which would effectively be 'wear a mask if you feel like it otherwise don't.'

Most cruisers want vaccinated cruises. All rules optional won't lead to safe cruises.

[rabidstoat]

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Most cruisers want vaccinated cruises. All rules optional won't lead to safe cruises.

 

Well, kids can still be a sticking point. They can't be vaccinated yet. I've seen polls that say people prefer vaccinated cruises, but I've not seen polls about vaccinated cruises except for kids. Personally I'd be fine with that, and any parents cruising with a young child would be, but I'm not sure about overall.

[IntrepidFromDC]

Kids should be allowed to cruise, pending the data that unfolds about the new variant that is making kids sick.  Vaccinated should be able to cruise mask-free and no obligation to socially distance.  Unvaccinated adults should be able to cruise but must wear the face diaper outside of their own cabins except while eating and must socially distance.

Edited June 19, 2021 by IntrepidFromDC

[pogoism9]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

Imo very little effect there either. The issue with gearing up is carnival is having to hire and get crews vaccinated..and I expect this to continue. It would be foolish to not get crew vaccinated. Hiring takes a while. 

 

Heald said a week or so ago that they are working on staffing up the entire fleet, even ships that have not been announced for restart so they can just pull the trigger and be ready to sail. I expect we will see quite a few new sailings for September

[sailingships]

2 hours ago, LadyMac72 said:

So I think they are going to leave the current restrictions in effect for now.  Can you imagine the fallout if they start allowing children under 12 now after a bunch of people cancelled because their unvaccinated child/children couldn't go?

 

 

And can you imagine the bad PR for a 'family' cruise line if they dont ? Those passengers chose to cancel without waiting to see what would happen. The court case was to be decided before any Carnival ship actually sailed. They can book on those same sailings again if they want to. I think most people are waiting. Those who applied for the exemptions for their children will receive all of their money back if they are denied. So its a win/win.

[bdever]

4 hours ago, scendro said:

I don’t think the ruling on the “preliminary injunction” related to the conditional sail order will change what Carnival has already announced for its July and August sailings.  I don’t see Carnival changing their requirements that everyone be vaccinated except a small percentage of exemptions.  Carnival does not want to risk a bumpy restart by having unvaxxed passengers when it starts back up.

This ruling is clear- businesses can chose to follow the CDC’s “conditional sail order” or not -but are no longer required to - for the next 30 days.  Nothing in this ruling prevents Carnival or any other cruise line from requiring that passengers be vaccinated.  Nothing prevents any cruise line from following the CDC guidance.  At this points it’s in the hands of the cruise lines.  Personally, I think (initially) the cruise lines liked the idea of “blaming” the CDC for the strict vaccination guidelines during the start up - this was away for the cruise lines to appease the anti COVID vaccine crowd by placing on the blame on the CDC- Now they can’t really do that anymore since the CSO has been stayed during this injunction.  
 

Also, this “Preliminary Injunction” does not answer the question about whether or not cruise lines can require passengers to show proof of vaccination when sailing from Florida and I think a lot of people are conflating the two -very separate - issues.  The so called “vaccine passport” issue is not in front of this Judge or any judge as far as I’m aware of.  

Perfect 👍 Thank you for posting. Agreed, Carnival will restart as is and possibly make some adjustments for future sailings but I would imagine that what ever adjustments are to be made will be heavily influenced by data gathered from their summer sailings. Also I would like to add that the current ruling does not mean that the CDC’s oversight function ends. If there is an outbreak on a cruise, jurisdiction and oversight still falls back to the CDC so the cruise lines are still working hand in hand with the CDC regardless of the injunction. In the meantime, business as usual. 

[SNJCruisers]

3 hours ago, rabidstoat said:

Heck, the cruises could go 'honor system' on masks, I suppose, which would effectively be 'wear a mask if you feel like it otherwise don't.'

Honor system with the unvaccinated?  That's the best joke I have heard in ages.

[BlerkOne]

Carnival should just ignore the judge and carry on as they had planned.