How cruise lines are coping with Vaccination Ban

[coffeebean]

6 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Under the CDC guidelines, cruise lines that are sailing with 95% vaccinated do not need to require masking anywhere on the ship by anyone. The Royal Caribbean sailings that have sailed so far (two total) have been 95%+ vaccinated.

Oh yes, of course. I knew that. My bad.

[coffeebean]

33 minutes ago, Diane67B said:

Celebrity Edge, leaving from Florida just changed their 95% vaccinated to allow for unvaccinated passengers. I am really, really sad and disappointed. I was hoping with them asking for proof of vaccinations, it would give me hope for my cruise out of Miami.

95% vaccinated does allow for 5% un-vaxxed passengers. I don't think that has changed from their original plan.

[ChiefMateJRK]

23 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Has NCL's lawyers found another loop hole that they are keeping under wraps for now?

 

Not a loop hole.  Just a business strategy.  Sail out of places other than FLA until this mess is sorted out.  Yes, I know, they still have a handful of FLA cruises that haven't (yet) been cancelled.  They fired a shot across the bow with this week's FLA cancellations.  Likely just sitting back now to see if FLA changes course.  (see what I did there with the ship references?? 😁)

[Diane67B]

Jamie, unfortunately, it is true. I just read it on the Celebrity website. A poster just quoted her email that she received from Celebrity about Florida departures. She is on the Edge on the 26th.

[Diane67B]

 

[Diane67B]

What happens if there is more than 5%

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, Diane67B said:

What happens if there is more than 5%

Only 5% are allowed to board.  The others are given a voucher for a cup of coffee at the nearest Denny's.

[BermudaBound2014]

5 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

It depends entirely with what happens with the CDC. If they retain purview over sailings (even the injunction that goes into effect on 7/18 only applies to FL), then cruise lines will be required to enforce mitigation measures included in the Return to Sail Framework or will risk having their ships shut down. The Royal Caribbean sailing last week was not under the purview of the CDC since it sailed out of Nassau. Also, their rules were stricter than those currently in the CDC guidelines, which say that on 95%+ vaccinated cruises, no one is required to wear masks, vaccinated or unvaccinated. Royal and Celebrity seem to be using the threat of masking as a deterrent for unvaccinated passengers coming on board in the first place.

 

PS: NCL has already said masks won't be required on board for their 100% vaccinated sailings.

 

Can you please expand on these points. You may be correct, but I've read the ruling differently.....

 

1) How you certain the CDC ruling only applies to Florida? It is my understanding that Federal ruling will apply Federally (to all 50 states). 

 

2) You wrote: "If they retain purview over sailings (even the injunction that goes into effect on 7/18 only applies to FL), then cruise lines will be required to enforce mitigation measures included in the Return to Sail Framework or will risk having their ships shut down." 

 

It is my understanding that the CDC must reply by July 2nd (not the 18th) with a new plan. Failure to do so will result in the CDC only having the ability to suggest policy... "conditional sailing order will persist as only a non-binding “consideration,” “recommendation” or “guideline,” 

 

Note: I do expect the CDC will respond by July 2nd and then NCL has a week to respond to the CDC. So at the very latest, we should know by July 9th if there are any new binding guidelines from the CDC. The judge clearly stated that should the CDC stick with non-binding guidelines (ie, they don't respond by July 2nd) then they would be following in line with current policy of other transportation (Airlines, etc..).

 

I do agree, NCL has already said no masking and 100% vaccinated until October 30th, but I believe those policies are subject to change at any time. I'm not even confident NCL will make it with these rules in place until October 30th, but time will tell. 

 

Maybe I'm missing something important, but it sure seems to me like the CDC has zero authority after July 18th unless they respond by July 2nd with an updated plan.

[BirdTravels]

This will be interesting. Royal Caribbean's 2nd cruise out of Nassau with 94% vaccinated passengers had 2 positive COVID cases today on Day 6 of the cruise (passengers were being tested to provide negative results to fly home to the US). Both positive cases were unvaccinated teens, one symptomatic and one asymptomatic. The teens and their parents were disembarked in Freeport (scheduled port of call). Parents, passengers, and crew identified during contact tracing were all negative. All passengers had to present a negative PCR test prior to boarding.  

Edited June 25, 2021 by BirdTravels

[BermudaBound2014]

2 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

This will be interesting. Royal Caribbean's 2nd cruise out of Nassau with 94% vaccinated passengers had 2 positive COVID cases today on Day 6 of the cruise (passengers were being tested to provide negative results to fly home to the US). Both positive cases were unvaccinated teens, one symptomatic and one asymptomatic. The teens and their parents were disembarked in Freeport (scheduled port of call). Parents, passengers, and crew identified during contact tracing were all negative. All passengers had to present a negative PCR test prior to boarding.  

 

This makes me very sad.

 

Thank you for sharing, I'm not following RCL closely.

[Karaboudjan]

33 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

This will be interesting. Royal Caribbean's 2nd cruise out of Nassau with 94% vaccinated passengers had 2 positive COVID cases today on Day 6 of the cruise (passengers were being tested to provide negative results to fly home to the US). Both positive cases were unvaccinated teens, one symptomatic and one asymptomatic. The teens and their parents were disembarked in Freeport (scheduled port of call). Parents, passengers, and crew identified during contact tracing were all negative. All passengers had to present a negative PCR test prior to boarding.  

On the whole this seems like a pretty good outcome.  Tests are not a guarantee that nobody infected will get aboard, so sooner or later it will happen, but it looks like things have worked out well so far with only one transmission, and that to another unvaccinated person.  

 

I personally feel that a few events like this are not a bad thing right now since it dispels the thinking that every case on a cruise ship is going to turn into an outbreak.  It doesn't hurt that both cases were unvaccinated people either.

[JamieLogical]

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Can you please expand on these points. You may be correct, but I've read the ruling differently.....

 

1) How you certain the CDC ruling only applies to Florida? It is my understanding that Federal ruling will apply Federally (to all 50 states). 

 

2) You wrote: "If they retain purview over sailings (even the injunction that goes into effect on 7/18 only applies to FL), then cruise lines will be required to enforce mitigation measures included in the Return to Sail Framework or will risk having their ships shut down." 

 

It is my understanding that the CDC must reply by July 2nd (not the 18th) with a new plan. Failure to do so will result in the CDC only having the ability to suggest policy... "conditional sailing order will persist as only a non-binding “consideration,” “recommendation” or “guideline,” 

 

Note: I do expect the CDC will respond by July 2nd and then NCL has a week to respond to the CDC. So at the very latest, we should know by July 9th if there are any new binding guidelines from the CDC. The judge clearly stated that should the CDC stick with non-binding guidelines (ie, they don't respond by July 2nd) then they would be following in line with current policy of other transportation (Airlines, etc..).

 

I do agree, NCL has already said no masking and 100% vaccinated until October 30th, but I believe those policies are subject to change at any time. I'm not even confident NCL will make it with these rules in place until October 30th, but time will tell. 

 

Maybe I'm missing something important, but it sure seems to me like the CDC has zero authority after July 18th unless they respond by July 2nd with an updated plan.

 

I don't know the exact legal aspects, but we have been repeatedly assured that the ruling will not impact the Alaska Tourism Recovery Act, because it only applies to Florida. Initially that was a fear that some people had because the language of the act specifically requires ships to be sailing under the conditional sail order in order to bypass Canada. However, after the ruling came out, better legal minds than mind assured us all, that the ruling was limited for sailings out of or stopping in Florida ports.

 

As for my second point, I was alluding to the possibility of a different outcome based on the judge's giving the CDC an opportunity to respond or appeal. As I understand it, if they appeal, the appellate court could stay the lower court's injunction until they can hear the case and make their own ruling.

[SpainAlien]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/24/two-guests-aboard-royal-caribbean-cruise-test-positive-for-covid.html

[podgeandrodge]

5 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

This makes me very sad.

 

Thank you for sharing, I'm not following RCL closely.

I read it as a pretty positive result!

[podgeandrodge]

1 hour ago, SpainAlien said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/24/two-guests-aboard-royal-caribbean-cruise-test-positive-for-covid.html

A great positive story, but CNBC couldn't bring themselves to add "unvaccinated" to their headline.

[SpainAlien]

2 hours ago, podgeandrodge said:

A great positive story, but CNBC couldn't bring themselves to add "unvaccinated" to their headline.

I was delighted that the whole ship didn't have to go into quarantine.  They seem to be working with the occasional covid infection quite well now

 

 

[JamieLogical]

11 hours ago, Diane67B said:

Jamie, unfortunately, it is true. I just read it on the Celebrity website. A poster just quoted her email that she received from Celebrity about Florida departures. She is on the Edge on the 26th.

I don't know what to tell you. You are wrong. If the Edge sails tomorrow without *verifying* that 95% of the passengers onboard are vaccinated, the CDC can/will shut the ship down. The conditional sail order is still in effect until at least July 18. Celebrity is not going to risk losing their clearance to sail from the CDC. The language of their policy is simply crafted to skirt Florida's vaccine passport law.

[KennyFla]

3 hours ago, podgeandrodge said:

I read it as a pretty positive result!

I agree.  On both cruises, the two positive passengers did not spread to anyone outside of their cabin.  This helps to calm the fears of an outbreak if the virus gets on board.  And I believe on these ships there is no virus mitigation?

Just makes you wonder how many people are walking around us every day in the real world that would test positive.

Edited June 25, 2021 by KennyFla

[Diane67B]

Chief Mate, I admit it. That was my stupid comment for the year. Thanks for the laugh though! Dennys!!🤣🤣🤣

[Diane67B]

Jamie Logical, thanks for your patience with me. You are absolutely right. 😀

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, KennyFla said:

I agree.  On both cruises, the two positive passengers did not spread to anyone outside of their cabin.  

are you sure they were In the same cabin? 
 

 

[JamieLogical]

1 hour ago, Diane67B said:

Jamie Logical, thanks for your patience with me. You are absolutely right. 😀

 

No worries. I don't blame you. The headlines yesterday were very misleading and confusing.

[KennyFla]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

are you sure they were In the same cabin? 
 

 

On the first cruise it was mentioned they shared a cabin. On the second from what I remember the story said the teens and their parents. Could be good the family had 2 cabins 

This is from memory 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

@KennyFla@podgeandrodge

I do see the positives here. No mass quarantine. Only those in the covid positive group were directly effected, immediate isolation, protocols working, et... I also realize this is further evidence that there are likely MANY people in regular society walking around who are covid positive (helping us to reach herd immunity) who are never going to get deathly ill. Yet at first reading I felt sad, and admittedly I still do.

 

Sad for the cruise lines: A tremendous cost went into evacuating the family(ies?) back to Florida. I believe a private charter with medical clearance was provided by RCL. Cruise lines won't be able to absorb those costs on a continued basis. If that is the new protocol, those costs will likely be passed along to guests.

 

Sad for the guests that were evacuated: While they only had their cruise cut short by a day, it's still a bummer. Hopefully everyone stays mildly effected.

 

Sad for others onboard: According to reports, RCL wasn't enforcing masking of unvaccinated. Since these were teens, it is likely (although not proven) that the infected teens were interacting with other non-vaccinated teens creating an opportunity for spread both onboard and during the journey home.

 

Sad for cruisers in general: Although the media hasn't ran with the story, I would prefer there to be far fewer cases onboard initial sailings in North America. I think we are batting 50% right now (4 total sailings, 2 with covid). I don't like those odds in terms of a quick industry recovery. 

 

It's a gloomy rainy day here in Michigan, so maybe that is a factor.

[podgeandrodge]

5 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

@KennyFla@podgeandrodge

I do see the positives here. No mass quarantine. Only those in the covid positive group were directly effected, immediate isolation, protocols working, et... I also realize this is further evidence that there are likely MANY people in regular society walking around who are covid positive (helping us to reach herd immunity) who are never going to get deathly ill. Yet at first reading I felt sad, and admittedly I still do.

 

Sad for the cruise lines: A tremendous cost went into evacuating the family(ies?) back to Florida. I believe a private charter with medical clearance was provided by RCL. Cruise lines won't be able to absorb those costs on a continued basis. If that is the new protocol, those costs will likely be passed along to guests.

 

Sad for the guests that were evacuated: While they only had their cruise cut short by a day, it's still a bummer. Hopefully everyone stays mildly effected.

 

Sad for others onboard: According to reports, RCL wasn't enforcing masking of unvaccinated. Since these were teens, it is likely (although not proven) that the infected teens were interacting with other non-vaccinated teens creating an opportunity for spread both onboard and during the journey home.

 

Sad for cruisers in general: Although the media hasn't ran with the story, I would prefer there to be far fewer cases onboard initial sailings in North America. I think we are batting 50% right now (4 total sailings, 2 with covid). I don't like those odds in terms of a quick industry recovery. 

 

It's a gloomy rainy day here in Michigan, so maybe that is a factor.

Yup. But I think it should also be looked at as - 4 cruises 7,000 passengers (?) and 4,000 crew is 11k passengers and 2 cases of Covid. 

 

Probably a lot more on land. Unrealistic to expect cruises to have less cases than society.  Media not helping by headlines that imply cases = failure .